richard_uk Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I've noticed a lot of members just lately saying they're, practically, getting out of the rep collecting hobby. I wonder if the rep business is heading for a slide, I've been away for a little while and since coming back recently I've noticed prices seem to have risen a little, not to mention dealers charging postage now, and other fees, in my day everything was allways included, the price you saw was the price the price you pay, all in. Maybe if there is a slide the prices will come back down to something a bit more realistic, at the moment they seem to be charging Seiko prices for Sekonda quality. OK rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWP Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 For every member that leaves it has been my observation that three or more join. Replicas are getting better everyday, but with current prices (like the Big Bang), dealers might start taking a slide. I believe that the industry is growning and as watches get more accurate will be evern more lucrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I think the more "seasoned" collectors are maybe getting turned off. Some seem to be more into modding what they have or only buying the latest "better" versions. I myself have been more selective in my choosing..and selling off my hasty purchases. But I agree in the year I've been here I too remember one price, now shipping, WU fees etc. Prices gone up, quality too. I think there has been an influx of newer people and with major dealers now having a website it's easier for them to set pricing and sort of forget the "older" members and not be so reliant on any of the boards anymore. Just my thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottoddy Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yes. I've been fairly cool lately. Maybe it's a natural progression for me, but I can't seem to get as inspired as a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Here is my problem,,,,and it's a conclusion I've really tried to repress for a long time but finally caught up with me. In the long run, I ended up spending a lot more money on reps then gens. Statistically, I think I've been rather unlucky with reps, it was always something, a case tube, a movement, or some slight imperfection such that I couldn't enjoy the watch. This is just my take and while this is still my favorite forum,,,it will be a while before I buy another..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender110 Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 it seems to be not soo underground as it once was.... and that was part of the excitement... rep game is more difficult nowadays esp. for dealers who are not china based. just look at the membership tallies from 2yrs ago to 1 yr ago to Today on the boards! lots of newbies polluting the transactions and boards with little or no collectiong experience and no business savy.. why do i say this.. well this hobby started out with Experienced Players in the field.. jewelers, watchsmiths, and true hobbiests.. so we knew what we were dealing with and could fix minor problems ourselves or source a fix or source a part or source a part and mod a fix.. with all the new ones with no exp in the field just looking for a "GOOD FAK*" to fool their buddies it has muddied many of the transactions and the small dealers cannot and should not deal with that.. and these fakers should go back to the scammer sites. just my .02$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWP Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Personally, I do not buy reps more my entertainment. Rather I sell them. My watch collecting has turned to gens now, and believe me there are many times when I think that I could have a couple nice genuine panerais for the amount I spent on reps. However, I think that after awhile, the majority of people start feeling this way. It is the appreciation for watches that I think changes for most of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Category 5 Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Personally, I do not buy reps more my entertainment. Rather I sell them. My watch collecting has turned to gens now, and believe me there are many times when I think that I could have a couple nice genuine panerais for the amount I spent on reps. However, I think that after awhile, the majority of people start feeling this way. It is the appreciation for watches that I think changes for most of us. I too have gained a love for gens, inspired by collecting reps. While I always think about my next gen, and which one is deserving of the $$$, I am stillvery into collecting reps in between. Some watches I like but would never want to own the Gen. I'll probably have a gen Rollie one day, but for now I think they are so overpriced I can get a gen PAM and a Gen Omega for the same price as a SS sub. ...or, a gen PAM and a few fun reps. Hey! Now that's an idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochenbrau Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I've noticed a lot of members just lately saying they're, practically, getting out of the rep collecting hobby. I wonder if the rep business is heading for a slide, I've been away for a little while and since coming back recently I've noticed prices seem to have risen a little, not to mention dealers charging postage now, and other fees, in my day everything was allways included, the price you saw was the price the price you pay, all in. Maybe if there is a slide the prices will come back down to something a bit more realistic, at the moment they seem to be charging Seiko prices for Sekonda quality. OK rant over Ive only been here about 6-8 months, but its been my observation that prices are rising as a result of an increasing demand... so quantity sold is actually increasing as a result, not decreasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 oh god did you actually post a demand curve? My poor buzzed head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv123 Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yes. I've been fairly cool lately. Maybe it's a natural progression for me, but I can't seem to get as inspired as a few years ago. I think this is the natural rep collector progression... Stage 1: You discover that high quality replicas exist, sometimes with Swiss movements and often very, very close to gen. Excitement grabs you (and your Visa card) and you proceed to fill your boots. Stage 2: The excitement of buying 1,2 (or more!) watches a month wanes - you may even have a good rep of your 'grail' watch- and you start to worry over minor details, get fussy about movements and start making mods. Stage 3: You enter a rep-buying sabbatical period, selling some of your less loved watches and continuing to improve your favourites. Probably either buy, or think about buying a gen or two. Stage 4: You regain an interest in reps, far lower than stage 1, but also continue to consider gen pieces, sometimes even buying a rep before a gen to see how you like it. <-- You (and I) are here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 just like the joys of parenthood my joy of collecting has changed and for the better. has the industry taken a dive? no the new watches are amazing and they probably should be a few bucks more. but prices across the board are going up the community has taken a hit. there used to be a natural weedng out process a pledging period so to speak. you had to figure alot out on your own. in the careful what you wish for concept perfectly trusty inc has changed the way our world works. and we have gotten alot of wastes of sperm like tha max idiot who continues todefend his paypal complaint. i was getting sad about the most recent batch of bucks spent on my collection till i got my po and bce and even the noobmariner. my collecting is really an obsession. i will never be satisfied and its usually a let down to actually get what i want. i am sick that way. but honestly there could be alot of worse things i could focus my obsessive compulsive tword. as "forums" continue to become more mainstream and the internet genration comes of age our world willbe constantly changing. good bad i dunno but changing yes. there are still a lot of special people around here and for me its still a great experience. i thinki should be more cautious with some of the newer folk. its just the nature of the beast. you dont appreciate it as much when you didnt have to work for it. and or you didnt watch the evolution. can you imagine your first rep being an ultimate po for 150 bucks? where do you go from there? down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 The rep market will only grow. It is as any product based on supply and demand. The demand for the level of quality that is being produced is growing. Growing daily. Beautiful wrist watches are objects of desire and envy the world over and that is not going to change. If people can purchase watches that look, feel and run pretty close to the gen, there will always be customers. The individual collector may or may not get jaded depending on his passion, patience and income. This is a market that will be around for a long long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I think the more "seasoned" collectors are maybe getting turned off. Some seem to be more into modding what they have or only buying the latest "better" versions. I myself have been more selective in my choosing..and selling off my hasty purchases. Steve is dead on: 90% of the serious rep collectors I know spend 90% of their money and effort on mods and the super accurate reps. I also bet they purchase at leat one gen a year. But I think this is creating a niche market of excellent reps, parts projects, and talented watchsmiths , not driving the industry down hill. Keep in mind that a relativey small # of excellent reps can still be made and shipped under the radar as the mass produced crap gets "cracked down on" and confiscated. It's the canal street [censored], fantasy day-dates, and nobmariners that are going to dissapear first, if at all. And who really cares? It's the typical progression: You start out wanting a nice watch to wear to work or to hang out and you're not going to give Rolex 5 grand. You stumle accross one of the rep boards and check out all the watches for sale. Since you don't know a lot about watches, even the $100 day-date chronos look like amazing bargains, because you correctly assume that almost nobody you run into will know your watch is fake. But then you fall inot the trap...first you learn a little about how watches work whick excludes a lot of the low end models. Then you start looking at the side by side pics with flaws blown up at 15X. Soon a 3:00 marker .025mm too tick becomes a deal breaker. You know it will drive you crazy ever time you check the time. So you start buying only accurate models and having them modded. Modding becomes a fun game in and of itself. And you realize that most gens really are better watches than reps, and that a very few of them are even worth thier used price, so you buy those instead of ten average reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I think I'm in stage 3 now. Maintaining what I really like selling off others. I wish I had the skills to do some mods. I've tinkered here and there, but realized I'm only good at breaking watches. I really have come to appreciate those that have the skills and the "awesome set of tools". I can read The Zigmeister's posts for hours just mezmorized by the talent. Sort of like watching a good musician master his instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I too sense a change, not sure what it is exactly, but something feels different lately...not sure if it's good or bad, just different from the feelings I have had during the past 30 months I have been here. I think I'm in stage 3 now. Maintaining what I really like selling off others. I wish I had the skills to do some mods. I've tinkered here and there, but realized I'm only good at breaking watches. I really have come to appreciate those that have the skills and the "awesome set of tools". I can read ziggy's posts for hours just mezmorized by the talent. Sort of like watching a good musician master his instrument. Thanks for the kind words, sometimes I sit back and wonder myself how I do some of this stuff... I watched that Rolex Watchmaker video someone linked here the other day, and as I got engrosed in it, I looked in awe at some of the stuff they were working on and doing, then it struck me, "Hey, I do the same stuff, and just serviced an El-Primero..." but watching someone else do it, it never struck me that I was doing the same stuff... Same for my paintings, I dont' see them for what others do, and always think they are so-so...but when I compare them to others, they are quite good... And the "awsome tools" dont' come cheap, unfortunatly...but you need them... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I think that, unlike myself, a lot of guys get in to this hobby with the intention of fooling people in to believing they have something that is genuinely valuable. They begin wearing their Omega reps around and invariably start to receive compliments under the premise that the watch is real. Thus, the lie begins, and with it the paranoia that one day they will be called out. There is a certain amount of guilt involved with living that lie. Wearing a nice watch shouldn't be like that. So the only way out is to buy genuine. I never try to dupe anybody, and openly admit to wearing and collecting reps. Most people are even more impressed by the quality of the rep than they would be by the genuine article. This honesty has kept the hobby fun for me. Also, because of a limited budget, I don't buy every watch that tickles my fancy. A new watch is fun, but its amazing how many beautiful pieces end up sitting in watch boxes, unworn. In the past year I acquired 5 new watches. This year I intend to cut that back to two or three. BTW, My next purchase will be a Seiko Orange Monster, simply because I like the watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm also distancing myself....noticed this in the last six weeks or so.....not a matter of prices, but just a general feeling of it not being as much fun as it used to be.... For me, much of the attraction of rep watches was linked to the small group of fanatics, madmen and scholars who gravitated around the boards. There was really a 'family' that I find myself missing. I guess it's like anything else: you discover a little-known place with great charm and personality and then it takes off and becomes a major attraction. The original intensity gives way to something new, increasing 'professionalization' and so on and so forth... It's the way of the world.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 It is a great rush to spend 250 (usd) and have a watch that looks like a 10,000 watch show up at your door. So, in this sense, I think the rep business will keep expanding and will not be affected much by a few, like myself that have been turned off. As mentioned, another market for reps has been for those getting into watch repair. 1) Because you often have to with reps and 2) most can afford to screw up a 200 watch, but not a 10,000 watch. However, it seems that there are more options now besides reps. For example; my latest project is actually from 100% swiss made parts. Totally cost for a gen 7750 project watch with a swiss 7750 is well under 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shultzie Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 It's the typical progression: You start out wanting a nice watch to wear to work or to hang out and you're not going to give Rolex 5 grand. You stumle accross one of the rep boards and check out all the watches for sale. Since you don't know a lot about watches, even the $100 day-date chronos look like amazing bargains, because you correctly assume that almost nobody you run into will know your watch is fake. But then you fall inot the trap...first you learn a little about how watches work whick excludes a lot of the low end models. Then you start looking at the side by side pics with flaws blown up at 15X. Soon a 3:00 marker .025mm too tick becomes a deal breaker. You know it will drive you crazy ever time you check the time. So you start buying only accurate models and having them modded. Modding becomes a fun game in and of itself. My progression exactly - 3 years ago gf brings back an Daytona rep from canal street. Serviceable enough to pique my interest and send me on a hunt for information, which brings me to TRC, which arms me with new data that leads me to a quest for better reps and so on - The notion of what goes into a "quality" rep starts to sink in and the $80 I would spend becomes $280. Recently I've been reading up on modding and contemplating buying tools, opening up and fiddling with some of those earlier reps. But This is all primarily motivated by my original base desire - a fondness for timepieces. I have admired gens that I couldn't afford as one might admire artwork (and I'm sure thats the case for many of us here). Once again it does come down to $$$...and the fact is even what I have spent in total recently could maybe get me one gen. As long as this is the case, I will be browsing these boards... or at least until the day I can afford to have every gen I covet ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I must admit- I don't find myself browsing dealer's folders as much as I used to... In fact, I don't think I've purchased an actual rep in over 8 months now and I find myself buying fewer and fewer parts these days as well. I still love watches... But I've been feeling less than motivated/interested these days. Maybe it's time to buy something new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I wonder if any of the group of talented watch experts that we have here would be interested in starting our own line of gen watches? We already know from our rep experience that we can retail a SS case/ Saphire/ AR/ Eta/ watch for about $250. This is far less than what the ADs are selling automatic watches, so why not start a watch company? I'm surprised that it it hasn't happened already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I must admit- I don't find myself browsing dealer's folders as much as I used to... In fact, I don't think I've purchased an actual rep in over 8 months now and I find myself buying fewer and fewer parts these days as well. I still love watches... But I've been feeling less than motivated/interested these days. Maybe it's time to buy something new? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that you already have all the watches that you ever wanted. I can say the same thing... well almost anyway. For me the rep collecting was all about getting the watches I admire the most... not to build a huge collection. People can rarely respect what they already have. We always want more, better, cheaper, etc. I try to enjoy my watches every day... new and old. I've been thinking about getting one expensive genuine, too... but I'm not sure I'd respect (or wear) it enough. Yeah, there's a quality difference. But with mass produced brands like Omega, Rolex, Breitling the difference in "feel" is not as dramatic as some people want you to believe. When you move to real high end territory it becomes more apparent of course. I find it hilarious when some guys get their first genuine and all of a sudden they start looking reps down their noses... it almost looks like they have discovered Jesus or something... quite pathetic, really. We all know the gens are better, they have QC, but they also have the 10x or 20x price tags... go to the gen forums if you want to be an elitist WIS... most of us here still enjoy our reps. We know the facts and we don't want to hear all that same blahblah about gen vs. rep quality over and over again. My father is a gen collector and I see his watches all the time. And based on what I've seen I'm not willing to pay 4K for just another nice watch. I'll eventually get his Rolexes anyway. I find reps more fascinating for some perverse reason... probably the main reason is this community being so cool. Lots of good friendships. I have also been extremely lucky with the reps. I don't recall ever having any kind of problem with the watches I've owned (except one movement problem with a MBW watch... which was later fixed). That's why I find it amazing that some people constantly have technical problems with their reps. I wonder how many of these problems arise because these people buy their reps from dropshippers... or think they're watchsmiths and perform all kinds of hardcore operations on them? I'd like to see this community taking a one or two steps into "underground" direction now. I wish we could remove the forums from the Google somehow... but that's for another discussion. @Andreww: I don't think there's interest in "our own watch brand". You can get fairly good genuines for around $250 already. It would just turn out to be another "RWG collaboration watch", remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonskeder Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 In my case compulsive, addictive behavior run riot. Bought many and I mean many MBW vintage and modern Rolex sport watches. Sent them off to The Zigmeister or RBJ for mods. They were perfect when I got them back. Into the watch case they would go and most of the time stayed there. The juice for me was getting them and having them modded. I broke the key to getting the fabled MBW's, sweated out them going thru customs and then the mail hassles of sending them off to be turned into the best fake I could. Most of the time I ended up putting on my gen 14060 and the reps would languish in the box. I can only do that so many times and then I tire of it. It was like a light switch going off for me. One day I was still trying to figure out the perfect rep and the next day it was not that important. I have sent most of my MBW's off to one the the more prolific members to be sourced out. The others I have given away to friends and relatives who would never buy such a watch but will enjoy them for what they are. I visit the forums to see what is going on with the sales end of it as I still have (or should say he has) several of the watches I want to unload. I think in my case I had to much time and money to play with. Being retired one can use up a day in some fairly dumb persuits. Now I back into building M1 Garands and 1911's for friends. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Ive only been here about 6-8 months, but its been my observation that prices are rising as a result of an increasing demand... so quantity sold is actually increasing as a result, not decreasing. goodness, i have not looked at a demand curve since i was in collage. lord, my stomach is churning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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