eunomians Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I wonder if it would fit my old EL 001 that has a Lello crown. I sanded the CG pin a tiny bit to fit the Lello crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Bad news for 6497 owners.... Rob's reply: I can probably get the crown to fit the case, but I can't get the stem to work...basically you can't get a 6497 stem in any size other than 1.20mm, and the crown is 0.90mm...if I use the stem adapter, the crown is sitting out from the case by about 3mm and there is no way I can get it closer to the case. Problem is with these models, there is no case ring, the movement sits right up against the case sides...so no room for any stem adapters. I don't have any tooling to be able to make a 1.20mm stem into a 0.90mm one... Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 OK, I'm still in for one SS for my ETA 2893 powered 029. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Bad news for 6497 owners.... Rob's reply: I can probably get the crown to fit the case, but I can't get the stem to work...basically you can't get a 6497 stem in any size other than 1.20mm, and the crown is 0.90mm...if I use the stem adapter, the crown is sitting out from the case by about 3mm and there is no way I can get it closer to the case. Problem is with these models, there is no case ring, the movement sits right up against the case sides...so no room for any stem adapters. I don't have any tooling to be able to make a 1.20mm stem into a 0.90mm one... I suppose that leaving 6497 owners out makes the number of purchasers about a half than what originally hoped. Let us know if this is a giveout to you, kruzer. I noticed that the seller surfaced out on the bay again, but his prices are still outrageous, so I would really like it if a group buy could get those crowns at a discounted price -- especially considering that there's no guarantee to find a tube that would fit. I'll wait three days then I'll buy on the bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 This one is still alive. Another forum member has been helping me out and snooping around asking for prices based on a smaller number of crowns and we can get fairly close to the price he quoted me for 50 and still get a substantial discount from the seller. I am going to catch up with Ziggy myself and then start a new loop later in the day asking for firm no BS orders. Another reason why I don't have a lot of manuals. It is a good thing I have a mind like a sieve and need a date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olreon Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 hello, i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Bad news for 6497 owners.... Rob's reply: I can probably get the crown to fit the case, but I can't get the stem to work...basically you can't get a 6497 stem in any size other than 1.20mm, and the crown is 0.90mm...if I use the stem adapter, the crown is sitting out from the case by about 3mm and there is no way I can get it closer to the case. Problem is with these models, there is no case ring, the movement sits right up against the case sides...so no room for any stem adapters. I don't have any tooling to be able to make a 1.20mm stem into a 0.90mm one... Sorry that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I suppose that leaving 6497 owners out makes the number of purchasers about a half than what originally hoped. Let us know if this is a giveout to you, kruzer. I noticed that the seller surfaced out on the bay again, but his prices are still outrageous, so I would really like it if a group buy could get those crowns at a discounted price -- especially considering that there's no guarantee to find a tube that would fit. I'll wait three days then I'll buy on the bay. Kruzer.....this means I'm out (Posted 2 x SS and 2 x PVD earlier)............thanks for the opportunity in the first place. I already have 2 that were destined for manuals but a re-think is now required. I'd also say that the seller may want to re-think his pricing if the demand is halved? Maybe he doesn't know that these are auto only , as the ebay listing has no mention of stem size or similar ? I'm sure his Ebay sales would be affected if purchasers knew these were auto only upfront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 the e-bay listing says they are 2,2mm thick...is that true? are you sure that this crowns are gen (i already got an answer previously on this tread) or they are copies of a gen crown...somebody that has done a project on his own...a la Palp?! we know how difficult is to source gen parts for Pam's...and now a guy from Turkey pops out with a new old stock of Panerai crowns...and dunno how many pieces...50-100...smells fishy to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 (edited) the e-bay listing says they are 2,2mm thick...is that true? are you sure that this crowns are gen (i already got an answer previously on this tread) or they are copies of a gen crown...somebody that has done a project on his own...a la Palp?! we know how difficult is to source gen parts for Pam's...and now a guy from Turkey pops out with a new old stock of Panerai crowns...and dunno how many pieces...50-100...smells fishy to me... I share the same sentiment...not sure how nobody questioned originality of these so far here in this thread Knowing how hard is to get a single gen spare part from Panerai let alone such a big number, the person offering these "gen crowns" could have only 'sourced' them if he's found himself in Neuchatel factory and nicked a few (or 50 !!!). Come on guys, let's be realistic about this, the crowns could be spot-on and extremely well made, but genuine they ain't ... sorry cheers, babola Edited May 21, 2007 by babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Can I prove it? ABSOLUTELY N0T. Here is what I do know. He did in fact buy out the inventory from a bankrupt watch smith. I bought gen brietling and Omega crowns from him as well and they are gen. Further, I am looking at one of his PAM crowns , a rep crown, a Lello Crown, a Palp crown and gen Breitling and Omega crowns as I write this and it is far superior both in terms of metalurgy (look at the brightness on this one versus Palp or anyone else's) as well as the finish on the crown and stem and integrated gaskets. Further, the fact that the PVD's vary dramatically implies that they are from different runs. In any case, I was getting nervous about being on the hook for 50 pieces and it now turns out that I am not going to need that many to get close to the target price so I will look long and hard before accepting "orders". I know that I and "trusted" friends are good for 20 so I will achieve about as good a price as possible. I need to catch up with Ziggy as to usefulness on the 7750's and then I will post a sign up thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I have a 1000% genuine crown (got it from my genuine parts supplier in Italy and not this guy in TUrkey). It is from a later series PAM (2 seals instead of 3 Kruzer's got) and the finish looks very similar to the one Kruzer got.. I don't know if they are genuine ( and to be honest the huge amount of crowns he has seems suspicious at least ).. but if they had just one genuine and they copied it, someone did a brilliant job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 not sure how nobody questioned originality of these so far here in this thread There has been another thread on the genuinity of those crowns -- and I have been a detractor there. But frankly I now care only to a small extent whether they are genuine or not. If they are of a good size, good look, good finishing, good gaskets, and they can be done to fit into our watches, I think that's all that counts (apart from the money, naturally). Also considering the lacking of communication by PAM about palp's crowns. I also have the highest consideration of kruzer's thought. I know that only he and few others (The Zigmeister included) collected and tried more types of crowns than me. If kruzer states that this crown is good, it's enough to me to get one (and their price is the only thing that is preventing me from getting several instead). Kruzer is not affiliated with the Turkish guy and he's not gaining anything from this -- rather, thanks for taking the hassle to get this done! And V's opinion is an added comfort. I have a mind like a sieveFull of nice tiny holes, kruzer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 There has been another thread on the genuinity of those crowns -- and I have been a detractor there. But frankly I now care only to a small extent whether they are genuine or not. If they are of a good size, good look, good finishing, good gaskets, and they can be done to fit into our watches, I think that's all that counts (apart from the money, naturally). Also considering the lacking of communication by PAM about palp's crowns. I also have the highest consideration of kruzer's thought. I know that only he and few others (The Zigmeister included) collected and tried more types of crowns than me. If kruzer states that this crown is good, it's enough to me to get one (and their price is the only thing that is preventing me from getting several instead). Kruzer is not affiliated with the Turkish guy and he's not gaining anything from this -- rather, thanks for taking the hassle to get this done! And V's opinion is an added comfort. Full of nice tiny holes, kruzer? agree with you sssurfer...I just wanted to point out too that this crowns could be not GENUINE...that's all...because that's stated in the post, right?...to avoid eventual confusion... if they are good copies...that's good enough for me, again with the right price...I know that kruzer is putting a lot of effort to get the right price for all of us and that he isn't going to get anything from this...and I thank him for that! and good to hear from V, The Zigmeister and again kruzer...that these crowns are better than the others that we have...from rep crowns...to lello...and palp... I personally love the palp crowns even if they are too thick compared to the gen... but then again...the turkish guy says that his crowns are 2,2mm thick...is that correct...can kruzer or The Zigmeister measure them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I just wanted to point out too that this crowns could be not GENUINE...that's all...because that's stated in the post, right?...to avoid eventual confusion...Fair. You are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Well then I see a business opening for you... Take the standard 1.20mm stems for the 6497, have your "good watchmaker" modify them to make them into 0.90mm stems, and sell them to the members here so that everyone can use the genuine crown in the handwind models. If you can do this, many members can use these crowns on their hand wind models. Lets see what you can do. RG @The Zigmeister i am not sure if he overwork the stem or overwork the crown. I had get him a 0.9mm palp auto crown and he has build it in my 111 unitas watch (stem 1.2mm). He asked me that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 No the ones I have are 1.9 on the crown itself. I think the 2.2 would have to include the base of the crown which sits on the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 No the ones I have are 1.9 on the crown itself. I think the 2.2 would have to include the base of the crown which sits on the case. thanks for the info kruzer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 @Ziggy i am not sure if he overwork the stem or overwork the crown. I had get him a 0.9mm palp auto crown and he has build it in my 111 unitas watch (stem 1.2mm). He asked me that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 He would not work the crown, he would have to take the stem threads, and make them smaller, from 1.20mm to 0.90mm... I don't have the tooling to do this, you would need a lathe to turn the stem down and cut the old threads off, then you need a 0.90mm die to make new threads, not easy to do, but possible... It could be done with a file and by hand, but it would take a lot of time... I am trying to find out if I can buy 0.90mm 6497 stems from my supplier, if yes, then the problem is fixed for everyone... I'll find out later this week if I can get the smaller stems. RG @The Zigmeister if you can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Well, I was able to get the seller to accept the same price for 25 with the understanding that I could get more if I came back relatively quickly. So I bought them. I will wait to see that they are all good. Assuming that is the case I will offer the majority of them to members. I was getting more than a little nervous about being long $4,000 of crowns. I do love you guys but... This way if no one wants them other than the folks who I know well who have indicated interest I am happy to be long the excess. And no, I cannot prove that they are genuine. One interesting twist is that one of the ones I received previously is clearly 1.2mm and is either very light PVD or ti. Anyone know how to test it? So I will have to see what is in this first batch. If there is enough demand and people pay promptly once they are formally offered I will consider buying another round. In the meantime he is offering them on Ebay as singles for something in excess of $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 (edited) Guys, please don't get me wrong, the crowns are most likely the best PAM crowns we've come across so far, and definitelly worth the investment...all I was saying is that I do not believe they're genuine Panerai product, that's all. cheers, babola Edited May 21, 2007 by babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Well, let's spice this discussion up a little. Here is one of several reference photos I have on early PAM's: Now let's suppose that this picture from a 5218 shows the crown compressed . They both have a total of 3 gaskets - one against the crown base and two on the spindle. Now look at the construction where the crown "stem" meets the crown. Notice the same two piece construction into the crown. Now look at the depth of the crown versus any other PAM rep crown you have ever seen. Pretty sophisticated for a rep crown. I will give you one legitimate counter theory - perhaps they are excess crowns from RXW when they were forced to cease and desist on the crown guard? Well, who knows. I now own them and am happy to be stuck with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Who's your buddy, Who's your Pal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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