Gran

[Richard Tracy]

Gran was great in the old days... & though some things have taken place, I for one hate

stonings..or inquisitions... they damage the psyches of all involved.

This place is sparkling and positive,..and blood never washes completely off the sidewalks...

He's not a mod here so .. he's got no power to affect,.. only effect.

Tell you the truth,.. I had a bad feeling about that whole rwg watch thing and never went for it..

Plus I thought the whole reason for the donations was to clear out old debts and start anew ?

Peace

[Ethan]

you were banned from this site with good reason......now you waltz back through the front door with 4-5 user id's breaking our board rules.

I think this is the most valid and concerning point of all. Is he still banned? If so, and he has 4-5 user id's, why is this one not banned as well, and why are we welcoming him without an explanation for his very, very bizarre behaviour? If he is currently in violation of board rules, why are the rules not enforced?

I was present for the end of RWGI, and spent considerable time those (last few for RWGI/first few for RWGII) days trying to figure out what the hell was happening. I read all the posts concerning the behaviour, on both boards, and was deeply sympathetic towards the new admins, mods, and everyone else who were awake for days on end trying to keep this little community afloat; a community that I believe is like no other (at least, no other that I have ever come across). Yet when these guys were killing themselves to make sure our little 'Home on the Net' stayed alive, Gran was running around trying his best to wreck everything. I've stayed silent on this topic until now out of respect for Gran's tenor; far more established than my own. But I, like I am sure others, have come to regard this community with affection and pride, and as such, am more protective of it than I might have been if this had not turned into such a wonderful little spot.

I'm all for extending the olive branch and a second chance, but I would like an explanation. And I would like it to be public; admin, jraines87, Nanuq, johnnyboy, jonthebhoy, kenberg, offshore, Thor, TomBombadil, and Willith all did their good work in public to keep us going, and Gran, I think you owe it to them to make your explanation just as visible.

[Dani]

unfortunately just the kind of answer we've come to expect.

first and foremost waving your collaboration watch around is in poor taste some of our members offered to donate theirs to a lottery.....others donated the cost of their watch to the watch fund.....others who had nothing to do with the project donated cash........the final result being that each and every member will be reimbursed if they so choose. did you donate Gunnar? did you offer up your watch? if not..... a complete and final explanation? ......is that too much to ask?

instead you undermined our move to what has turned out to be a wonderful site with a great host and a great cast of valued members.....you wreaked havoc at the old board deleting our posts and worst of all you deleted one of my best friends posts (jjajh) and replaced it with your own words to make it look like he was very angry with me.....very low.....very very low

you were banned from this site with good reason......now you waltz back through the front door with 4-5 user id's breaking our board rules.

illness is a serious condition......one that requires treatment......i hope you take the time needed to make a complete recovery.

for the sake of our members who still do not know that you do not know, what, how, and why things turned out the way they did......full disclosure would be a good start to your fresh start as a contributing member to the new and improved RWG.

jf.

agreed.

[gran]

unfortunately just the kind of answer we've come to expect.

jf.

I am tempted to say a lot of things about you that would not be favorable johnnyboy but I will refrain from it as that would be a foolish thing to do on my part

First I am using only one user name now and that is Gunnar Gran. The Administrator will be deleting the other two that were still active

Today I saw the threads with posts about me and just the one of them was 5 sides long of posts. Not so pleasant reading to be frank. Public digracement of gran galore. But more of my blood is still wanted. Cant you see that I have bled and that I have bled deep. You want more?

Notwithstanding I hereby apologize for my wrongdoings and I will never ever do anything like that again (period)

Obviously I have been charged with more wrongdoings than I have done, but that is something I must live with and beleive me I have suffered as much or likely more than you have from it all

Leave me be jf and I will leave you be

Regards

Gunnar

[Klink]

There is no where to begin..

even those who say they know things 'for a living'

have got a skewed vision version of unrelated instances..

the blame game is a fun one, for it gives great power to wound, to hurt..

now this will likely mean nothing to anyone who does not have first hand

experiential knowledge, let me see if i can break it down...

you are either a good guy at bottom, or you are not.. simple, no matter

what - AND good guys can be affected with maladies, and make decisions that

are puzzling, just plain wrong.. it is who they are and what they do when the come

to realization that counts.. and bad guys do not expose themselves to what they know will

likely be a cruel penance..

blame away, flame away.. that matters not to one who is brave enough, strong enough

and even wise enough.. and the pain cannot be explained, only endured. and mocked..

to hold on to a hurt, real or perceived, is to grow weaker, foments useless anger, and ourtage, to no end.

Just my take, having experienced some things that perhaps most have not..

: )

Life is Good!

Klink

youth knows everything

age knows that age and youth know

nothing but what they choose to believe..

[SubFrog]

to hold on to a hurt, real or perceived, is to grow weaker, foments useless anger, and ourtage, to no end.

Agreed....good post.

[robertk]

Thanks Klink.

Those were stressful times for some. Stress does funny things to people.

in this case, wouldn't it be best to forgive good people who did things under stress that they wouldn't ordinarily do?

[gran]

......now you want peace.......peace is what i will give you.

i'm just tired of fielding endless pm's from members here and old rwg about what you knew and what transpired between you, Blade and Eric......an explanation is all anyone ever wanted from you, nothing else.

enjoy your stay.

jf.

You are graceous JF I appreciate that. Thank you.

I am sorry about the endless PMs regarding me. I hope they stop sending you such mesages concerning me as of today.

Story is that (RWG) BLADE was getting all the money. About USD10.000 in total. He also took over the entire RWG watch project in september 2005 (under full understanding by all the moderators) after king delivered the wrong size product. Then BLADE made a deal with the dealer Eric to make a correct size perfect version. Apparently BLADE paid Eric in advance for the watches. The new watch that came and was not perfect either but acceptable. Blade diseapeared and eric stopped delivering the RWG watches after 18 or 20 were delivered. I stood by BLADE the entire time and hold on to the hope that he would deliver I even tried to get Eric to deliver. They did not. Sad ending. It became my albatros.

On the other hand Chris, Ken, admin and Scott and others (probably jf too) in the RWG administaration ried to help the 20+ ones that never got their watch. I am deeply greatful to them (the RWG crew) and the members who paid for the watches for their way of handeling this situation. Trying to bring it to a closeure. You guys are great.

Best Regards

Gunnar

[new & improved osteopath]

WHat is interesting here, is that this simple, brief explanation seems to make sense given my cursory understanding of the situation. I was not involved directly, but certainly sseveral of my friends were. If Blade really evaporated like that, and there is no reason not to think he had, Gran could not be directly hel culpable for the RWG watch fiasco. What I am not cleat about were the edited/deleted threads- were these purperated by Gran, or perhaps someone else?? Not enough information.

I stand by the advice I rendered in the Eliot/TC situation. Let the past be the past, and let the present dictate your path. None of us are likely to ever have a real understanding of what transpired at RWG I, so are we going to hang on to things and thoughts with [censored] us off, or move on?

I elect to move on.

I value this community, and would personally like to see Gran vindicate himself through is positive participation in this new, and improved community.

BTW, after my Malpractice payment goes out May 1, I will become a contributor to this forum. That's how much I am liking it!

All my best,

-O

[AMK000]

Come on guys.

Give Gran a break.

Gran, with all this story is as visctim as you are ... and maybe even more.

How much you have lost with this RWG watch ??? 200 $ , 300 USD ??.

He has lost his reputation and maybe some friends.

Dont you think that these worth more than 200 to 300 $ ????

On the other hand he has the courage (it takes a lot of guts) to speak publicly and recognize what he did wrong. Is that not enough ???

If you really need to flame somebody , this is BLADE and not Gran.

The logic that since we cannot find Blade , we flame at Gran , sounds strange to me.

BTW: Who really cares about the old RWG blocked or deleted posts.

Many of them were obsolete any way.

It will take 2 or 3 more months to refresh them here with new inputs.

Of course you can keep flaming at Gran. That's one of the "sad" principles of democracy.

.....IMHO

Edited April 18, 2006 by AMK000

[Klink]

[quotre]If Blade really evaporated like that...

[Dani]

case closed i em very happy whit the answer Gran has put here i totaly forgive him in the matters that has been up.

i lost some 200$ to the RWG watch but for it i got this forum

and Blade may he burn in hell he is the scammer here

[new & improved osteopath]

Ditto.

As for malpractice insurance- you want to know about a scam, Ill tell you about a scam- 25 percent of my income and no malpractice suits. It just keeps getting worse and no one gives a rats ass. That is why I am setting up in Miami.

Welcome Gran.

-O

[Klink]

@oseo

2 me the biggest crooks seem to have shiny suits

best cigar and mean to servant

companies of 'surance' head list of devil disciple

they look not to cost but to hijack

sad

when one hears tones and words of highest moral

platitude "for the little guy"?

hide the silver.. or not, at your personal peril

little waddling arctic ducks do not make a saint,

nor do words about 'protection here"

and we do know that if the musik cannot be faced

must be reason for that beyond...

[new & improved osteopath]

Well it is protection, as in 'pay us protection money'.

-O

[Klink]

so?

u r right, as in 'kneecap kelly'

or 'clothesline guido'

: )

all makes the same of vigorish...

[jjajh]

Here is my take on this: hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off at someone all the time. It's just not worth it. Gran says he wants to get past the past and rejoin our community in a positive way. Okay...sounds like a plan and time will tell if this is fact or fiction and I know many will watch carefully to make the call one way or the other.

So, to Gran I say...

We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though perceived transgressions may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.

Cheers

Jeff

[SubFrog]

I, for one, am glad to read Gran's take on things. It gives some sort of finality to a completely confusing situation.

You cannot have gratitude if you have resentment. Therefore, I chose not to have resentment toward Gran or anyone involved. Plus, after signing up here and realizing a new set of core beliefs...including some real generous people...I've learned ole Klink's motto is back in play.

...now on to better things.

[KB]

Yes I also lost $200 in the watch fiasco but then I never blamed Gran for that, my concern was with the attempt to sabotage this site on its opening day.

I also have a problem when someone extends the hand of friendship here under one user name whilst continuing to thrust knives on the old site under other usernames.

What I am saying Gran is if you want me to accept you.................no more games

Ken

[bres3000]

unfortunately just the kind of answer we've come to expect.

first and foremost waving your collaboration watch around is in poor taste some of our members offered to donate theirs to a lottery.....others donated the cost of their watch to the watch fund.....others who had nothing to do with the project donated cash........the final result being that each and every member will be reimbursed if they so choose. did you donate Gunnar? did you offer up your watch? if not..... a complete and final explanation? ......is that too much to ask?

instead you undermined our move to what has turned out to be a wonderful site with a great host and a great cast of valued members.....you wreaked havoc at the old board deleting our posts and worst of all you deleted one of my best friends posts (jjajh) and replaced it with your own words to make it look like he was very angry with me.....very low.....very very low

you were banned from this site with good reason......now you waltz back through the front door with 4-5 user id's breaking our board rules.

illness is a serious condition......one that requires treatment......i hope you take the time needed to make a complete recovery.

for the sake of our members who still do not know that you do not know, what, how, and why things turned out the way they did......full disclosure would be a good start to your fresh start as a contributing member to the new and improved RWG.

jf.

You make several good points, JF. You will recall a certain 30+ page Thread on RWGi which was first moved, then deleted. In my opinion, this action, and others like it, cannot be viewed as anything other than an attack on Replica Watch Group. Yet, the perpetrator has not taken responsibility and the victims seem to be willing to dismiss it, wimpering "oh, well.... it was the alcohol." [censored], as TT so aptly said. What if I said, "yeah, I killed your daughter with my car but I was DRUNK, so it doesn't count?" Extreme example, perhaps, but its the same thing.

And then, Johnny, I wondered if the 'waltzing back through the front door' came as a result of a majority vote of the Mods, given this prior statement by Kenberg:

Please note that Member Offshore has now been upgraded to Moderator.

Alan, as I am sure you are aware, has been one of our longest serving members, in fact he was one of the founders of the original RWG.

Our vision for Alan is as a Mod leader someone we can go to when we need advise on handling certain situations and someone who can break deadlocks in what was an even numbered mod unit.

However he has full mod rights and can moderate as he sees fit.

While it's true, this is none of my business, I still think that's how you guys should have handled it.

[Happy T]

When one burns a bridge he must rebuild it before he can get back to the other side.

I always wait to see how well the new construction is completed before I make up my mind.

[Richard Tracy]

First time I have understood Klink in a long time,..well at least the important parts,..

Hey Klinkster,.. what ever it is that you did today, or didn't do.. do it again !

[Klink]

@ Mr. Tracy

we have always been more in agreement than perhaps you might think..

at any and all others.

if you cannot say it straight, why beat around the bush

unless you have ulterior

exterior

extraneous

exculpatory..

?

hooooo haqaaaaaa heeeeeee

haw haw haw hee hee haw

for shore

[KB]

No Bres there was no vote or even discussion on the topic.

Ken

[TomBombadil]

Hey Gran,

Thank you for the apology and explanation. That definately clears some questions up, at least it did for me. It doesn't quite explain the deleted threads, but I know 'at bottom' you are a great guy and have RWG strong in your heart. You have always shown that. Welcome back.

And, for the rest who like to blame BLADE, I say do not convict until the facts are known. The truth is, nobody knows what happened to BLADE and why the sudden disappearance. We all would like to blame somebody for the watch incident and poor administration of RWG, but the fact is we have no clue what happened and it is not fair to blame anybody (especially BLADE). He started this site to expose scammers. He is not the type to scam!