"Full Servicing" from our dealers

[Feta1]

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I have purchased several reps from several dealers across the board here. On a few of them, particulary the ones with Asain 7750 movements, I have elected to go with the "full service + waterproofing" option.

Now the test for waterproofing is pretty easy, put in water, if it leaks, clearly something isn't right...

But the movement service is a different story. How do we really know that our dealers are doing what they promise? Has anyone who knows what to look for ever opened a "serviced" watch to see if what was promised was done? Please share your experiences.

ps - please don't think I am attacking any of our dealers. All my "serviced" watches have never had a problem, this is just something that I have had in the back of my mind (and I bet many other have too)

[slay]

to be honest, I _think_ you will get the same watch as everybody.

Why? because they should all be somewhat waterproof and there is no way you can tell it has been serviced.

If the watch fails, they simply apologize and send you a new one.

[Dizzy]

maybe its the difference between buying the movements in sealed packs or in bulk or however they word it. I know there is a diff in pricing and the bulk ones are cheaper but they could also dry out or get contaminated. The "fully serviced" ones are probably the ones that are individually sealed until they are installed in the watch.

But ya since we are talking about counterfeit products from Asia, you are probably getting the same watch either way..

Lonnie

[Corgi]

One thing that many experts go on is time. Some buyers remark that the time between order and shipment of a supposedly "serviced" watch is unusually quick, meaning that even if they are serviced - it is not a full disassembly, cleaning, reassembly, and test as promised. Some have gone so far as to send their "serviced" watches to trained watchsmiths, who inform them that their watches are completely dry and have no oil inside.

When I had my submariner "waterproofed," the technician servicing it did not notice that the entire bracelet was covered in disgusting, permanent brown muck. He must have manipulated the watch for quite some time, yet still shipped it with the horrendous damage? More than likely, his oily fingers were responsible for nearly destroying the $120 bracelet.

It is difficult for me to believe that these technicians are actually going through with the work. Imagine - they cannot get in trouble if they don't, so responsibility is completely gone. Furthermore, they seem to be oblivious to the most basic and obvious debris and damages when "inspecting" before shipping... this does not really secure them as "honest" people... at least not in my book.

Indeed, I would not send the $125 for servicing, knowing that more than likely, it will either;

-Not get done at all

-Be done, but so poorly that it may have no effect or even the opposite effect to the watch's health

-Be done correctly but cause further damage to the exterior of the watch whilst it is being handled with someone's oily fingers.

I don't want to sound rude and unappreciative, but I'm just following logic and my own experiences. Different people will have different results I'm sure... but the only way to guarantee a good quality servicing - is to go to a trusted watchsmith and have it done in person. Just my two cents.

[Feta1]

One thing that many experts go on is time. Some buyers remark that the time between order and shipment of a supposedly "serviced" watch is unusually quick, meaning that even if they are serviced - it is not a full disassembly, cleaning, reassembly, and test as promised. Some have gone so far as to send their "serviced" watches to trained watchsmiths, who inform them that their watches are completely dry and have no oil inside.

When I had my submariner "waterproofed," the technician servicing it did not notice that the entire bracelet was covered in disgusting, permanent brown muck. He must have manipulated the watch for quite some time, yet still shipped it with the horrendous damage? More than likely, his oily fingers were responsible for nearly destroying the $120 bracelet.

It is difficult for me to believe that these technicians are actually going through with the work. Imagine - they cannot get in trouble if they don't, so responsibility is completely gone. Furthermore, they seem to be oblivious to the most basic and obvious debris and damages when "inspecting" before shipping... this does not really secure them as "honest" people... at least not in my book.

Indeed, I would not send the $125 for servicing, knowing that more than likely, it will either;

-Not get done at all

-Be done, but so poorly that it may have no effect or even the opposite effect to the watch's health

-Be done correctly but cause further damage to the exterior of the watch whilst it is being handled with someone's oily fingers.

I don't want to sound rude and unappreciative, but I'm just following logic and my own experiences. Different people will have different results I'm sure... but the only way to guarantee a good quality servicing - is to go to a trusted watchsmith and have it done in person. Just my two cents.

So most people believe that this statement from our dealers is complete bullsh!t???

Waterproofing : Additional seals are add on and watch is pressure tested to 5 bars... 50m waterproofing..

Movement is completely overhaul and re-assembled, serviced and re-lub with 5 different types of Swiss imported movement lubricant, Calibration to +5 secs per day.

Above scope of works is carry out by Swiss trained Technicians

Like I said I wish I had the expertise to very this but I don't. Has anyone ever been able to verify this??? If not this would be an out right lie and something should be done!!!

[crystalcranium]

I think you have to mix some common sense into the purchase remembering these are the Chinese who believe that in comerce, quality control is the responsibility of the buyer. The dealer who purports this claim is a drop shipper so he doesnt even have first hand contact with the trading of his items.

The kind of overhaul cited is typically a tough to come by service costing hundreds for automatic watches and close to $400 for chronographs. Again....what is your recourse if the dealer is full of crap and 4 years after you buy the ETA powered thing it needs a service and your watchmaker tells you it's the first time the watch has been disassembled.....these guys do not think in terms of repeat customers years down the line...they want your $458 now and see ya later.

Its a waste of cash. If it is and ETA powered watch, they are sufficiently oiled and the assembly is QCd enough that you should get years out of one before lubricants begin to dry out and performance is affected.

[b16a2]

I do recall that someone actually received a watch that was 'serviced' but plainly when opened it hadn't been. Now I don't know how often this happens, or even if it was a one of mistake, but I would rather buy a watch without, and send it to our resident expert for a full service if going down that road.

[crystalcranium]

... the only way to guarantee a good quality servicing - is to go to a trusted watchsmith and have it done in person. Just my two cents.

thats the bottom line...well said

[fotoman]

So most people believe that this statement from our dealers is complete bullsh!t???

Waterproofing : Additional seals are add on and watch is pressure tested to 5 bars... 50m waterproofing..

Movement is completely overhaul and re-assembled, serviced and re-lub with 5 different types of Swiss imported movement lubricant, Calibration to +5 secs per day.

Above scope of works is carry out by Swiss trained Technicians

Like I said I wish I had the expertise to very this but I don't. Has anyone ever been able to verify this??? If not this would be an out right lie and something should be done!!!

It is complete [censored]. I have had that confirmed by watchmakers that regularly service reps - these come in, bone dry just like the rest. save your $$ order the regular version, i have never had a movement fail on me - none of them serviced, 30 plus reps, mostly asian

[slay]

see, there we have it again, andrew and josh LYING and frauding you guys.

[FxrAndy]

Well there are fairies at the bottom of my garden, belive that?

[Pugwash]

So most people believe that this statement from our dealers is complete bullsh!t???

Waterproofing : Additional seals are add on and watch is pressure tested to 5 bars... 50m waterproofing..

Movement is completely overhaul and re-assembled, serviced and re-lub with 5 different types of Swiss imported movement lubricant, Calibration to +5 secs per day.

Above scope of works is carry out by Swiss trained Technicians

Yeah, this always makes me laugh.

Additional seals? What additional seals?

How to waterproof a rep: test it. If it fails, test another. Repeat until one passes.

As for the rest. Swiss-trained technicians? :Jumpy: :Jumpy:

So far, we, the forum-members, have said time and time again that the services offered by Josh and Trusty are pure fiction and neither of them has defended themselves. Now I know silence isn't an admission of guilt, but ...

[pabra]

Yeah, this always makes me laugh.

Additional seals? What additional seals?

How to waterproof a rep: test it. If it fails, test another. Repeat until one passes.

As for the rest. Swiss-trained technicians? :Jumpy: :Jumpy:

So far, we, the forum-members, have said time and time again that the services offered by Josh and Trusty are pure fiction and neither of them has defended themselves. Now I know silence isn't an admission of guilt, but ...

The funny thing here is that this is basically a promise to lube something that is supposed to be lubed ... and what people get is ... well... they get it without any lube ... .. .. .

[mezzanine]

This really bugs me if it's true. My HBB supposedly came serviced from Angus, if I remember. I don't think the member was lying, who I bought it from. But then when I saw The Zigmeister's comments about the difficulty involved in servicing the Big Bangs, I began to wonder whether it had actually got the full tear-down and all that....

I have paid a premium on a number of watches under the notion that they've been serviced.

[2005SUBMARINER]

i would never spend $300-$400 for a so called services rep ! thats BS !

ill do my own serviceing , any one can apply grease to a seal .

[Feta1]

This really bugs me if it's true. My HBB supposedly came serviced from Angus, if I remember. I don't think the member was lying, who I bought it from. But then when I saw The Zigmeister's comments about the difficulty involved in servicing the Big Bangs, I began to wonder whether it had actually got the full tear-down and all that....

I have paid a premium on a number of watches under the notion that they've been serviced.

I agree... $10-$20 is one thing... but fleecing customers out of $120 is highway robery.... if anything I hope this thread serves as a warning to noobs!!!

Have Josh or Andrew every defended themselves on this???

[kasigi]

When you ask a dealer to do a service and add the additional seals (I laughed at that as well, Pug) make sure you ask him to ensure he sends you a grade AAA++ watch instead of one the normal ones.

[rek001]

I've read The Zigmeister's posts detailing some of the things he has to go through to get an asian 7750 movement functioning again after servicing it, sometimes parts don't fit back together well and he has to keep fiddling with it until he gets it right. That man has amazing patience.

Based on this I don't believe dealers full servicing is properly done at all.

[Stephane]

Send them to me, they will be beter serviced

A service on an Eta 2836-2 is 100

[Marc283]

I have only ordered 1 rep from Joshua but that was still on replica-watches-guide.com when he only had his photobucket album and no website like he has now. At that time he was good to me. Fast reply on e-mails, fast shipping.

I'm still reading a lot of good stories about him (delivery, customerservice). But i'm reading also a lot of bad stories about the cartel. That scares me......

And now this with paying a lot of money to get the watch not serviced......

I think I won't be buying reps any time soon. Maybe I will buy sometime from the non-cartel collectors.

[RWG Technical]

There have been some great accurate comments, let me only add the following for whatever it's worth...

1. You can't ADD any extra seals to watches, as pug pointed out. Each and every watch has to be sealed, or it would soon get contaminated from the heating while wearing it, to the cooling when it's removed from your wrist. Heating and cooling without seals the watch acts like your lungs and sucks in crap. You can make sure the seals are in fact in place inside the watch, or lubricate the seals, but adding extra seals, is BS.

Of all the dozen or so reps I have opened, not one had any missing seals. Each and every rep I have ever looked at, had each and every CORRECT seal where it should be.

Anyone who says they put in "Larger Seals" to waterproof your watch, is also selling you BS. The cutout in the case or stem or wherever is designed to accept a certain size seal. If you want your watch to be sealed, you use the correct size seal, NOT a larger one. ALL reps come with the CORRECT sized seal...replacing the correct size o'ring with a larger one (if in fact this is even being done) does not make it more waterproof, actually, it probably makes it less waterproof, since the clearances are now out of wack...

Think of it this way, your car doors have seals, the right sized ones. Replace them with ones that are larger, and see how well they seal you from the rain...

2. I could not name nor have I ever ran across a "Swiss Trained Watchmaker". Now ETA does run watch movement courses, but you have to be a watchmaker to start with. I just can't see a Swiss watchmaker moving to China, nor can I see an Asian going to Switzerland for a 2 year watchmaker course, where would he earn a living in Asia?? Servicing reps?? which for the most part contain Asian movements...he should be an "Asian Trained Watchmaker" it would be more appropriate. Need anymore be said??

3. I have seen a fully serviced Asian 7750, which had nothing done to it at all...nothing...it was as bad as they all are...

That's all I have to offer.

RG

[fotoman]

I have only ordered 1 rep from Joshua but that was still on replica-watches-guide.com when he only had his photobucket album and no website like he has now. At that time he was good to me. Fast reply on e-mails, fast shipping.

I'm still reading a lot of good stories about him (delivery, customerservice). But i'm reading also a lot of bad stories about the cartel. That scares me......

And now this with paying a lot of money to get the watch not serviced......

I think I won't be buying reps any time soon. Maybe I will buy sometime from the non-cartel collectors.

josh was different back then - he was my guy for a long time but recently he has pushed the line to far for my comfort into these types of activities.

I now use Precious Time. Good communicatinon, good prices, no BS

[mezzanine]

Thanks as always to The Zigmeister for weighing in....pretty much the only person here who can legitimately debunk a lot of this stuff from an educated perspective.

It bugs me to know that I got sucked in. When I was investigating the legitimacy of this way back when, I never came across this info. Why do people recommend this on the forums? The lid should really get blown off this whole thing, if this is true.

That's what bugs me about the direction of the community. People are complicit with this. Not telling noobs about how to source MBW's is one thing- I understand the logic- but allowing this to go on while 'members' (even VIP members, I dare say) are pissing away money on something illigitimate...is wrong.

[Chronus]

Thanks as always to The Zigmeister for weighing in....pretty much the only person here who can legitimately debunk a lot of this stuff from an educated perspective.

It bugs me to know that I got sucked in. When I was investigating the legitimacy of this way back when, I never came across this info. Why do people recommend this on the forums? The lid should really get blown off this whole thing, if this is true.

That's what bugs me about the direction of the community. People are complicit with this. Not telling noobs about how to source MBW's is one thing- I understand the logic- but allowing this to go on while 'members' (even VIP members, I dare say) are pissing away money on something illigitimate...is wrong.

There was the "little white lies" thread... and Slay has his signature in plane site.

The afore-mentioned thread seemed to fritter out with too many people not wanting to lose their fix from their dealer of choice... or so it seems.

[mezzanine]

There was the "little white lies" thread... and Slay has his signature in plane site.

The afore-mentioned thread seemed to fritter out with too many people not wanting to lose their fix from their dealer of choice... or so it seems.

Yeah...

I think that we've all probably been taken to some degree or another. Most of us didn't buy our first rep only after we'd spent months gaining information, and in that sense, most of the people here probably have experienced the downside of the rep game even if they're committed to doing due diligence.

But that's what bugs me. Is that I tried to do the due diligence and it was recommended here in a number of threads. I guess it just bugs me that there's still a grey-area, in terms of how some of the practices are dealt with. What accountability has been brought to bear? I understand that there's a natural action that takes place after something like the 'little white lies' thread- but I'm irritated because that's what the community is supposed to guard against. At least that's what I'd thought...

I'm not trying to call anyone out. The money spent on servicing is not insignificant...even the cheaper prices offered by some of the 'collectors'.