Read a true story about JOE and tell all your friends !

[hk45ca]

@HighDef

yes, I agree partially to your thoughts. @all: Please do not get my example wrong !

I agree with HighDef - I don't really think his only intention is to scam people.

But he seems to be very thirsty for our wallets. You realize that reading his price list and looking at the fact he accepted watches even when having work for months...

Facts are Facts. My watch is screwed, my money is away.

Many of your watches aren't back on your wrist since months.

Telling nothing about his intentions - this naked facts are scam.

joe has had one of my watches for a couple of months and it is a big time mod. i told him that i was not in a hurry at all and if he had other customers that he needed to work on before me not to worry about it. all i was intresed in was how it looked when i get it back. i have not talked to him. i have offered to send him money several times but he has refused any kind of payment until he starts on it. i told him to just tell me when he needs and i would send. so as far as i am concerned i have no problem. i still stand buy what i told him. if he needs to take care of others before he does mine that is fine with me. i hope he is ok and every thing works out well for every one involved.

[yodaddynukka]

doood that is awesome!!! i hope you take western union or money orders because that is the only way i roll. is that a gen insert? can you PM me the details? thanks!

Send it to me. I am in the US .Below is a sample of my masterpiece and I am cheap.

[HighDef]

Not to be facetious, but I think he is as addicted to buying watches as we all are.

I await his reply when he is around.

I agree with you Chrono, it is awkward , but it is correct. He too has to feed the need just like us.

[HighDef]

doood that is awesome!!! i hope you take western union or money orders because that is the only way i roll. is that a gen insert? can you PM me the details? thanks!

Sorry, I take direct deposit on my numbered Swiss account only.

[HighDef]

I can't believe Joe has not peep in yet. Not even in RWI.

[Tribal]

Namor-

Better late than never. Kudos to you for having the courage to step forward.

I can't say I ever had work done by Joe but what I can say is that I asked The Zigmeister to do me a favor and do full mods on an MBW Comex. This is not a service he provides but I was eager and he has modded and serviced virtually every watch I own. Fortunately he was curious enough to give it a one-time go. Needless to say, his work was fabulous. I did post it on old RWG. What I didn't mention at the time was that the cost was a fraction (read more than 50% less (including all the parts)) of what Joe was asking. Since The Zigmeister was not offering the service I did not bring it up. But, for that reason, I stayed away.

To the Membership as a whole-

I do hope that others who have had a bad experience with anyone will post it. I do. We all have an obligation to either post on the forum or PM the mods. This forum is all about protecting its membership. If there is an occasional problem with a dealer or watchsmith, members should report that as well. That way one can weigh the good against the bad. If there is any sort of bad pattern emerging, we all have the obligation to inform the membership ASAP. The crap that The Zigmeister took on the old forum was ridiculous and unconscionable. At the time I felt The Zigmeister's postings were fair and accurate and was amazed as to what members would sink to. I know the mods will not let this happen here.

I was just curious as to how many folks actually have watches with Joe. Is it a few or dozens? Unfortunately, I suspect it is the latter.

Thats also my opinion....

Rg Tribal

[vmena]

I agree with HighDef - I don't really think his only intention is to scam people.

@namor, this is the way we all should go IMHO: carefully. And it doesn't mean you aren't right. It is just that some words have some extrme meanings that are better to put in quarentaine until all is absolutly clear. But if you really think what you wrote, you didn't have to write the post title in such a way.

Many of your watches aren't back on your wrist since months.

Telling nothing about his intentions - this naked facts are scam.

Please, do not mix concepts. Scamming is not sending watches back late or lack of communication. Also, your case till now is the only one, so (and don't take it for bad) I don't think Joe can be called scammer. I had some troubles with some trusted dealers and they also asked me to send the watch back to inspect and resend another. and obviously I didn't want to take the risk again and pay transportation.

And I think, at least on my side, that it's been enough. Topic closed for me (ultil Joe show up).

[Hari Seldon]

so basicly your saying anybody who wants to spend the money to push the limits on the accuracy of a rep is just a dumass. lol.

I don't believe I have used the word "dumbass" in about a decade, but I do believe that mods don't often provide the level of return for what they cost. Now I am not talking about putting genuine parts on a vintage MBW or other higher quality parts than what are originally on the watch, that is probably worthwile. But stuff like "crystal reallignment," "water testing," blowing dust off the dial, messing around with the bezel, etc. Unless it's a package deal for about twenty bucks it's not going to be worth it. In Namor's case, and he sad he was a newbie so that obviously factored into it, he could have taken the extra $400 and bought every tool needed to do the mods himself. Wat does Joe charge for labor then? Let's be generous and say it would take four hours to do all the mods that were claimed on that watch, and parts cost about $50, which seems high. His labor then comes out to like almost eighty bucks an hour. If you want to spend that kind of money, go ahead, but I will continnue to think it's silly.

Some of you are riding the wrong horse.

To clear up some points:

@Hari Seldon:

Yes palpatine HAD received the watch from me and mailed with Joe - then he waited, but nothing happened.

- it's not about the question whether mods are necessary or not, thats completely a theme of it's own. Nobody of us is able to decide this generally - it's a decision everyone has to do on it's own.

- I'm not complaining about the price - but if I pay this amount I want to get the work done. Yes it IS a large amount, but I decided to pay it and was OK with that. But receiving a watch in this condition messed it all up.

Nowadays I'm with you all - I wouldn't spend that money again for many reasons. It's too much. Either I can do the work myself or I simply let my watches as they are because it doesn't make enough sense to modify them.

But as I stated before - this is a story of what happened to me last summer. It's not about judging whether it is stupid to spend money for mods or not...

Okay, for some reason I hadn't gotten that you had sent the watch to Palpatine. In that case I apologize for whatever paragraph it was that dealt with returning the watch. You are right that I brought my own personal opinion about mods into the discussion and that was not really what it was about, although the situation does present itself for a discussion about that. Even if Joe had done every mod he said he would have and done them perfectly I don't think it would have turned that watch into a $600 item.

[namor]

Even if Joe had done every mod he said he would have and done them perfectly I don't think it would have turned that watch into a $600 item.

You are absolutely right ! The watch would definetely NOT turn into a 600,- $ item.

But I wouldn't complain about this. If all the work had been done by Joe, I would own not a perfect but a very nice Submariner. Later then I would have found out that it was not necessary to spent that amount of money for that watch - but would take it as a lesson.

Like buying a rep from Dealer "1" and reading 3 days later an offer by Dealer "2" for the exact same watch but 400,- $ less.

Come on guys, nobody would write his Dealer a mail wanting the 400,- $ refunded. This happens all day in life.

But another point is spending 600,- $ for a Submariner and seeing this awful piece. And with a few logical thoughts realizing that some of the work isn't even done - BUT WELL AND EXPENSIVELY PAID FOR (I'm talking here especially about the water-testing).

Thank you all for your input, I'm really glad that we have a respectful communication here !!!

Over 3000 views and 135 replies - and we all managed to argue and not to senseless shout to each other.

Please let's keep it so.

[Craytonic]

Spoke to joe for 1/2 an hour a few minutes ago. See my thread.

He is no scammer in my book. I paid a lot too but it is worth it to me. Everyone has to evaluate for themselves.

[Nebakanezzar]

@Namor,

Craytonic mentiond Joe offerd you a refund, is this so?

[Craytonic]

@Namor,

Craytonic mentiond Joe offerd you a refund, is this so?

To clarify that it was contingent on namor returning the watch to Joe.

[namor]

@Nebakanezzar:

Here you'll find all the answers to your Question:

Addition:

After receiving the watch and seeing the flaws I asked Joe for a partial refund (don't stated an amount in my mail) - declined.

He just said repeatedly that I should send him the watch back, knowing well I won't.

I couldn't trust him anymore - I had spent more than 600,- USD, I should spent again some money to ship to him, I should have the customs risk - and loose the watch outta my hands not knowing what he would offer me to make it right ???

That's ridiculous.

So I offered to send the watch to palpatine and they could make an agreement each other, you know from pro to pro. This he accepted, but palpatine never saw any parts or a cent from him.

Palpatine will remember this sad story well I'm sure.

Till then the watch is sitting here - I took the bezel insert to another watch temporarily till my ordered new one arrives and I'm waiting for a new glass.

The faulty bracelet was replaced by me too.

I also polished out the scratch at the crown and will overwork the CGs after having a new crystal installed.

I see the point that he had his costs - around 180,- USD for the watch and around 25,- USD for the insert.

Thats more than 400,- USD he charged for workmanship - and this is an budget of more than 400,- USD you can think about refunding to a customer if you did bad work.

If you're just thinking about how many watches he is doing - there is no problem to make one faulty, BUT THEN MAKE IT GOOD FOR YOUR CUSTOMER AGAIN !

[rbj69]

Well , talk about kicking a man while he is down, lmao!!!!!,i have not been around and many people know why, but i have had a good friend call me to let me know about this particular thread, namor, u and The Zigmeister r funny guys, so i will address this like my southern personality usually does , I SMELL A RAT AND I CALL [censored] ON THIS WHOLE THREAD!!!!!! this is my first legit problem with a customer in open air , but funny thing is "why when im sick and not around,?" and this case was closed and fixed a long time ago , lol u r too funny

i cant stay here long cause i have work to get done , over 100 jobs r waiting for me and i can not work like i was due to health problems, i have not left the building but only for temperarily reasons, i should not have to defend myself but i will for amusement for the great The Zigmeisterwamba and this namor guy

namor - u had a king watch come to me, , i have done many, u paid for work to be done but not remove cyclops and reglue it , that is seperate, that raised area on your braclet was not touched by me and im sure i missed it because it is on the inside of the bracelet,but u told me it was on the outside of the bracelet but the picture shows the inside of the bracelet , make up your mind man (i had palpatine put u a brand new one on btw.) and the blowed up minor scratch in between crown guards was overlooked im sry ,im not perfect, but i do stand behind my work, how i fixed this , was he could send it to me and let me fix it, which is the normal thing to do, but u insisted u didnt want to do that and waited weeks in between our conversations to answer me, so whos fault is this , i mean if im upset i will respond immediately with someone that im upset with, (very childish of u imho) then u said u wanted palp to fix it so i paid him to fix your problems, case closed

edited cause i just read u say watertesting wasnt done, lmao again blowing smoke screens huh?

i have u know and these r facts i have waterproofed and tested over a thousand watches for the good people on this forum and if they leaked wouldnt u think u would be reading about it ( again u sent the watch to palpatine and i cant say he did waterproof it back like i do but that is what u wanted to do not me) now after all this time u want to complain cause u sent it to someone else to fix ) lmao u r too funy my friend , go get a life

now ,!!! the real problem u had was u paid me and then u found out palpatine was cheaper so then u nickpicked the watch to death,because u said that palp was cheaper is how i came to this conclusion, the thing is u didnt realize when palp quoted u the prices he didnt add things i did to your watch so u didnt compare apples to apples u compared apples to oranges, again (childish of u and looking a deal i suppose)

the only real thing i did wrong was overlooked some minor very fixable problems u had with the watch , but i told u i would pay for all the shipping and fix your minor problems with the watch and u wanted to send it to palp and i said fine with me and i paid him for fixing u up and now u still want to insult me and blow smoke screens about me, maybe i should have told u to go take a hike but i didnt , to be honest ,good people on the forum remember this the pics r blowed up on that very minor scratch even palp said it was small, and i dont think i did it but i could have but even so i fixed it that is the key word here I STAND BEHIND ALL MY WORK!! I DONT PAD BILLS AFTER I GET THEM LIKE SOME PEOPLE DO ON THIS FORUM, lmao

now The Zigmeister u r so funny , when the new forum came up we talked privately about letting by gones be by gones and u were so friendly towards me but u to r a sneaky slithering forked tongue devil arent u (my point proven again) , just waiting for someone to say something or did u put him up to it? , lmao ,for me u dont bother me cause i dont have to live in your skin, but i think u just wanted to get the heat off your back with your problem customers, that is fine we can resume your childish fun to try and discredit me , doesnt bother me at all,(just remember im not base and im not shady) i wish we had all the things we talked about in front of us , like my prices and yours , i remember u showing off a piece u did that really was not up to par but i didnt say anything it was over at trc with one of your customers,(u asked and i actually wrote u some help to make it better) and then u told your price u charged him like u were way cheaper than me and i came on there and said that is funny cause u say im expensive for the same work but u were actually higher than me(i think it was like 10 bucks but nevertheless u were more and it doesnt bother me until u run your mouth ) , lmao u left quickly on that one as u always do when u see your hands getting slapped (like everytime we discuss our issues) lol

the difference is and most people know this but i hate this has happend to the new guys because u just confused them, but i have been here working on watches for a long while,(as long as u mr. The Zigmeister) pretty much with 100% feedback till now(unlike u mr. zig) , sure many say im expensive but they again dont really compare apples to apples also i wish u guys could compare them side by side for the picky detail stuff then it will be clear, but that is the internet for u, the main thing is do a history check for over a year and u will see what the truth is, u get what u pay for and that is the bottom line, also u need to make sure it is the exact work done which has not been the case many times over, my prices really r about the same as over a year ago and i dont pad my bills in many cases i have sent money back because there watches didnt need this or that, and usually till now i talk to anyone and i will soon be back to that way again, it is just hard to talk alot when my breathing is eratic, i will not apologize for being sick and for sure i do not owe namor anything and or The Zigmeister anymmore of my precious breath , now u have it from the horses mouth and i thank the ones that were waiting patiently for me to answer this ludicrous thread and the real friends and customers have shined through once again, to sum it up The Zigmeister u r a snake as usual and namor u need a mental pill, and bandwagon peoople that love The Zigmeister seems like those r the only people who have problems with me lmao so i dont blame u guys i pity u cause u get work done from a snake that has a god like complex, lmao

i still love all of u , i just dont understand none of u , that could be a good thing i guess lol

[Nebakanezzar]

hmmm...I can kinda see your logic....BUT, knowing Joe is legitimately ill, and has been keeping us updated on his condition (maybe not a regularly as he could/should have) and considering he has such a good rep around here...I think you should have sent him the watch back for him to refund you.

...just MHO

[Polynomial]

this is becoming the fastest-growing thread in the history of the RWG (including the old one), chee, can I get a piece of him

Chaps, news: BRJ now has a new service -- watch return, if ya wana ya watch back, lol, it will, lol cost ya $600, plus shipping

[slay]

and has been keeping us updated on his condition (maybe not a regularly as he could/should have)

he has wrote like 20 times that he is sick and stuff... it already started to bother me.. so ppl who didnt read that have to be blind

[Polynomial]

he has wrote like 20 times that he is sick and stuff... it already started to bother me.. so ppl who didnt read that have to be blind

Don't know the man. But having a look at the pics of those mods he made, I am sure he must be seriously sick, probably working from bed with his left hand

[Nebakanezzar]

he has wrote like 20 times that he is sick and stuff... it already started to bother me.. so ppl who didnt read that have to be blind

Oh, I only caught a few of them, but as I said, he has been making sure we were all updated and aware of his condition, and that Mods/repairs would be delayed....which shows good will and unfortunate circumstances. Not a scammer...

Glad to see RBJ able to respond. Hope you start feeling better.

[namor]

Joe, thank you for your posting !

You couldn't have done it better - still so many unanswered questions - still no logic in your working.

No explanations for the members waiting for MANY MONTHS for their watches while others are made meanwhile.

I'm really sorry for your health issues - but even that I'm not believing anymore...

Just flaming around - namor is bad - ziggy is bad - palpatine is bad.

You are doing so much more than palpatine or ziggy or any other watchman ! Oh please friends ! Don't compare apples to oranges ! Joe is doing so much more to the watches !

Come on man, the hype is over. The watches are getting better. Members are much better informed.

Nobody believes you this kind of cheap marketing gags !!!

You're talking about small issues with the watch - even members who defended you stated that this watch is JUST POOR !

You say I said that the bracelet has a nick on the outside - but you just saw it in the inside.

Don't you see on the pictures that one is on the outside and another is on the inside ?

These are the same pictures I sent you.

You say I didn't want you to correct the cyclops - that's true !

But just because YOU ordered the watch for me directly to you !

I never saw it before - how should I know ?

But receiving a watch with that bad cyclops and bracelet you just had to return it to king - that easy.

But you're telling you didn't saw the cyclops issue, you didn't saw the bad bracelet, you didn't saw the scratch at the crown.

WHERE WERE YOUR EYES ? PEOPLE ARE PAYING YOU FOR PERFECTING THESE REPS !!!

So again thank you - for all that snake stuff, mental pills, chaos theory, no explanations, flaming senseless around, making others work look bad and all that other stuff.

People saw how you react. I showed pictures, I argued, I debated here with other members pros and cons.

What did you ? Perfect reaction - this behaviour you showed here is like a puzzle piece perfectly fitting into the rest...

[slay]

i know a solution. well all get together and smoke a blunt and everyone will be happy, okay?

[Nebakanezzar]

Hmm Namor, I have had a really bad experience with one of the most reputable dealers on this board. so because of that, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. we - all of us on the forum....members, dealers and repairers/moders - are all capable of mistakes, and [censored] does sometimes happen. now I dont know all the details of what happend, only you palp and joe do....but going around bad mouthing people like you did in this last post, you lose credability. dont throw [censored], just facts, and be willing to come up with a mutualy benefitial solution.

Edit - I like Slay's solution also

[robertk]

This is turning into [censored] RWG1. give it a break. Nothing new to say in public.

please continue this in private.

[namor]

...but going around bad mouthing people like you did in this last post, you lose credability. dont throw [censored], just facts, and be willing to come up with a mutualy benefitial solution.

Seriously: are you kidding me ? Where do I'm going around badmouthing people ? Joes whole post was a big flamearound without any explanations - I just commented this. I didn't use any bad language like he did nor I told him to take a "mental pill" because he is expressing his thoughts like he said to me.

???

I'm sure you got something wrong here...

[rbj69]

again namor, the key here is i got u a new bracelet and fixed your scratch and your cyclops problems and u were fine till now, no hype just facts, so whats the problem, u chose palpatine to do the fix and i did waht u wanted me to do , im not saying anything bad about palp , just u and The Zigmeister basically, palp is a friend of mine , he fixed a problem for me for u and i have done the same for him we r friends that help eachother with people like u , the real answer to u is u jumped on me when i was down which is fine cause i found out and now ive answered u , and the other is u had buyers remorse wanting a 5000 usd watch for 600 bucks , and now there r better watches out than yours , but yours was one of the better ones back then , and now it is not so what is your real problem , u want a refund to get a newer version? lol again u make no sense