Ever Heard Of Dirk Straps?

[KB]

The whole watch industry is about copy and paste anyway.

Btw, that's typical Ameraican way to do business.

Every coporation in US is doing similar thing. Sorry if you don't like it.

Its good to see Elliot still has some friends in the rep trade, however I tend to agree with this guy.....

Your "marketing" expenses...

May 24 2006, 11:28 PM

...were certainly covered by the hefty price difference you charged on the Original Dirks when you sold them on VP. I remember, you sold them well over 40% what Dirk did at the time.

You are "kosher" in a legalistic way, but that's about it. The overwhelming negative reaction - heck, not a singly voice of support from your friends as of know -- make it pretty clear that your actions have disillusioned everyone.

I think you have unwillingly dug the grave of VP...!

[cornerstone]

I will be a bit more bold:

1. He has not trademarked TC Dirk.

2. Has not applied to trademark TC Dirk.

3. He has not even trademarked TC Straps. (Think about it, why would you trademark TC Dirk, but not stick a little TM next to TC Straps too).

I don't why he says he has, perhaps he plans to - but point is he hasn't.

Some good news for the real Dirk, if he lives in Belgium (is that correct?) he lives in the easiest and cheapest jurisdiction in the world (Benelux) to register a trademark. Then it can be upgraded to provide international protection.

This is nothing a quick 'cease and desist' letter couldn't fix.

[leitztozeiss]

I don't think the two marks have to be identical - there just has to be a potential for confusion. You think Dirk has a strong argument that there is the potential for confusion in the connection of the mark "TC Dirks" to the goodwill established by Dirk and his straps?

[cwai02]

Anyway, I have a Dirk strap that I bought from network54.

The quality is really good.

[leitztozeiss]

This is nothing a quick 'cease and desist' letter couldn't fix.

Or, 'decease' . . .

[leitztozeiss]

I will be a bit more bold:

1. He has not trademarked TC Dirk.

2. Has not applied to trademark TC Dirk.

3. He has not even trademarked TC Straps. (Think about it, why would you trademark TC Dirk, but not stick a little TM next to TC Straps too).

I guess I beat around the bush too much, but that was the point of my first question . . . thanks for putting it out there.

[Willith]

Btw, if DIRK was actually the first name of that guy, I believe he can appeal it in court.

Anyway, isn't Elliot's trademart "TC Dirk" instead of "Dirk?"

Here is a quote from Dirk himself:

"My full name on my passport is D*** Hendrik Maria Grandry. If you want a first name for straps, grab one while stocks last...

Cheers,

Grandry"

Notice his name is *** out and now he signs his post "Grandry" because Dirk isn't available anymore.

[kanerich]

Where is the word Dirks at the TC Straps site?

Under the laws of many countries including the US and Japan, you do not have to register your trademark to show ownership. Registration simply creates a presumption of validity and ownership, and allows certain federal remedies that are not otherwise available. You can prove the mark is yours by introducing evidence that you used it first in commerce, have not abandoned said use, the mark is distinctive, and that the mark is associated with a good or service in the appropriate marketplace. I would imagine Dirk could do all of these things.

TC Straps' rationale -- that he's done more for the Dirk name than Dirk has, while seeing little of the profit -- is not a defense. Does the fact that Wal-Mart sells more Crest toothpaste than P&G does in direct marketing give it a right to the Crest trademark over time? If Tower Records sells more 50 Cent CD's than he does out of his trunk, does that give Tower Records 50 Cent's copyrights in the album? Of course not. A retailer makes the choice to market something under someone else's brand or copyright. He doesn't like the result, he ends or renegotiates the deal. He doesn't steal the IP.

The argument that other people including Dirk have "stolen" his strap and buckle designs is equally irrelevant. It would be very difficult for TC Straps to prove that there is something so distinctive and original about its design of a strap or buckle that there is a protectible design right or trade dress. Before TC straps did no one make straps in the same size, material, stitching, shape etc.? Can consumers look at a TC strap and say "that's a TC strap, not some other company's"? If I make a paper crane out of origami paper it's not "my design" just because I made it with my own hands, it has to actually be original. I would like Eliott to show exactly how his strap and buckle designs contain completely original design elements -- especially given that "his designs" inherently are closely derivative of somebody's else's product's design -- i.e., Panerai straps in 24 and 26mm with stainless steel or titanium tang buckles. The argument "he stole something that wasn't protected under the law, so I stole something protected under the law, even stevens" might sound good to the infringer, but it is unlikely to influence a court or jury.

Edited May 25, 2006 by kanerich

[Willith]

Just FYI:

® = registered trademark

™ = unregistered trademark

So, it appears he is working toward getting it to be a registered trademark, might just be a paperwork issue.

[Watchmeister]

When it rains it pours. Prior to reading all I have read, I had had a good experience with him. Now I have no interest in doing business with him. And I buy reps.

[leitztozeiss]

Notice his name is *** out and now he signs his post "Grandry" because Dirk isn't available anymore.

"Dirk" is very much still available. He should continue to use his name for his straps. As Cornerstone said, he should also register his Dirk name for his straps.

TC Straps, so far, has done nothing to keep Dirk from making and selling straps with the Dirk name. The TM is a claim of right, not an absolute right.

[leitztozeiss]

Under the laws of many countries including the US and Japan, you do not have to register your trademark to show ownership. Registration simply creates a presumption of validity and ownership, and allows certain federal remedies that are not otherwise available. You can prove the mark is yours by introducing evidence that you used it first in commerce, have not abandoned said use, the mark is distinctive, and that the mark is associated with a good or service in the appropriate marketplace. I would imagine Dirk could do all of these things.

TC Straps' rationale -- that he's done more for the Dirk name than Dirk has, while seeing little of the profit -- is not a defense. Does the fact that Wal-Mart sells more Crest toothpaste than P&G does in direct marketing give it a right to the Crest trademark over time? If Tower Records sells more 50 Cent CD's than he does out of his trunk, does that give Tower Records 50 Cent's copyrights in the album? Of course not. A retailer makes the choice to market something under someone else's brand or copyright. He doesn't like the result, he ends or renegotiates the deal. He doesn't steal the IP.

The argument that other people including Dirk have "stolen" his strap and buckle designs is equally irrelevant. It would be very difficult for TC Straps to prove that there is something so distinctive and original about its design of a strap or buckle that there is a protectible design right or trade dress. Before TC straps did no one make straps in the same size, material, stitching, shape etc.? Can consumers look at a TC strap and say "that's a TC strap, not some other company's"? If I make a paper crane out of origami paper it's not "my design" just because I made it with my own hands, it has to actually be original. I would like Eliott to show exactly how his strap and buckle designs contain completely original design elements. The argument "he stole something that wasn't protected under the law, so I stole something protected under the law, even stevens" might sound good to the infringer, but it is unlikely to influence a court or jury.

Spoken like a true intellectual property attorney. If you don't trust Wikipedia, then listen to this guy . . .

[Craytonic]

wow. I was not really commenting on this but trademarking someone's name...

BTW I have a new line of straps

the CT Elliot-L [censored]-strap (Registered TM). Toilet paper, wiped on the ass of yours truly, rolled and with an original buckle design by me. Ignore that buckle looks just like OEM. Registered name, gotta protect the my marketing investment.

May the CT Elliot [censored]-strap go down in history. PM me for pricing

[cwai02]

Just FYI:

® = registered trademark

™ = unregistered trademark

So, it appears he is working toward getting it to be a registered trademark, might just be a paperwork issue.

It would be a waste of money to register DIRK imo.

[kanerich]

Dirk is very much still available. He should continue to use his name for his straps. As Cornerstone said, he should also register his Dirk name for his straps.

TC Straps, so far, has done nothing to keep Dirk from making and selling straps with the Dirk name. The TM is a claim of right, not an absolute right.

IP infringement is not about keeping other people from doing anything, it's about using other people's rights without permission. By your logic, essentially everything that is not registered with the government is in the public domain. Whatever one's opinion may be on the subject, that's not how the law works.

[cornerstone]

One other point to raise (not so much an issue in this discussion, but elsewhere):

There is a difference between a trademark in the name Dirk, and intellectual property design rights in the actual look and design of the strap. So there are two issues: the right to call the strap a TC Dirk, and the right to sell a strap that looks anything like it (for example, as an Elliot Marketing BluesTM strap)

[leitztozeiss]

. . ., have not abandoned said use, . . ..

Dirk should continue to use "Dirk"

[Craytonic]

If some attny had a little free time...

[leitztozeiss]

There is a difference between a trademark in the name Dirk, and intellectual property design rights in the actual look and design of the strap. So there are two issues: the right to call the strap a TC Dirk, and the right to sell a strap that looks anything like it (for example, as an Elliot Marketing BluesTM strap)

Design? Like a design patent or something?

[swdivad]

Well, I always tried to look at the E situation in a neutral way, I like his straps (and sales of course)... I could never really understand the extreme feelings people had about this guy...

Using someone else's reputation for financial gain without recompensation or recognition, and especially without permission, is pathetically unethical... low as all [censored]in buggery.

No more business from me E. I hope Mr Paci gives you the boot too!!

Now, I think I'll go buy me a nice REAL Dirk

[cornerstone]

Design? Like a design patent or something?

Yes, there are several different intellectual property rights that you can apply to a design. In Australia, for example, there are "design rights". But these can overlap with copyright and patent protection too, depending on what you are trying to register.

I just wanted to differentiate this from the trade mark (Dirk), as they are getting in a muddle in other discussions.

It would be quite easy for Dirk to protect his name - given that a certain level of confusion and brand loyalty has been shown, it would seem worth his while.

[Craytonic]

I do not know much about this area of the law.

But, it seems dirk has some sort of tort / unjust enrichment claim since someone is trading on his name?

[Quarks]

Well, I always tried to look at the E situation in a neutral way, I like his straps (and sales of course)... I could never really understand the extreme feelings people had about this guy...

Using someone else's reputation for financial gain without recompensation or recognition, and especially without permission, is pathetically unethical... low as all [censored]in buggery.

No more business from me E. I hope Mr Paci gives you the boot too!!

Now, I think I'll go buy me a nice REAL Dirk

swdivad, I am in total agreement with you. I have been neutral about Elliot all along and like you, never understood the extreme animosity held against him. I gave him the benefit of doubt after all the drama that occurred here as well as other forums. I was one of the few who wanted Elliot to stay and told him so via PM.

Now the [censored] has hit the fan and I am not impressed with him using the name 'Dirk' to sell his straps. Whatever the history is, is between Grandry and him, I do not want to know. This is simply bad business imo. Like I said before, I have never gotten straps from Elliot, however, I have gotten Dirk straps from Big Bruce which I am very very happy about, in terms of customer service as well as quality of straps. I guess my impression of Elliot has changed from this point on.

[Craytonic]

Can someone post the link for real dirk straps?

[Adeeos]

I will be a bit more bold:

1. He has not trademarked TC Dirk.

2. Has not applied to trademark TC Dirk.

3. He has not even trademarked TC Straps. (Think about it, why would you trademark TC Dirk, but not stick a little TM next to TC Straps too).

I don't why he says he has, perhaps he plans to - but point is he hasn't.

Some good news for the real Dirk, if he lives in Belgium (is that correct?) he lives in the easiest and cheapest jurisdiction in the world (Benelux) to register a trademark. Then it can be upgraded to provide international protection.

This is nothing a quick 'cease and desist' letter couldn't fix.

I can respond to this,, I was told today by a very good friend,, that Elliott has TOLD him that HE now owns the name TC Dirks, AND either "Dirks.com",,, or/and "DirksStraps.com",,, etc,, So you can lay-off your somewhat defense of this scumbag, that I, and SEVERAL others on this and other boards TOLD you he was a scumbag way back when,,, OK?