This is the reply you've all been waiting for or expecting

[Finepics]

Well gentlemen here is the reply that you no doubt have all been waiting for following my "Outting" on the Risti. I have been

reading what you've posted about me, some of which was frankly shocking and deeply upsetting as was the Risti post. I did email

the admin team informing them that I would post a response but so far I have not had a reply from them so I have chosen to

go ahead and do this by taking specific comments and answering them directly. I hope that this will pretty much address and

clarify all the issues raised about me and my conduct, but before I go on I'd like to draw your attention to some of the RWG

forum rules which don't appear to have been strictly adhered to:

[7] - Be nice to each other and respect the RWG admin team and moderators. No personal attacks. In particular, malicious comments

that insult others based on race, gender, religion, nationality, or sexual preference will not be tolerated. The fastest way to

get removed from the community is to turn a discussion into a personal confrontation.

[8] - No cursing, particularly if the words are directed at another person on the board. These words generate bad blood too easily.

There are ways to get your words and phrasing across without typing the cussword. Remember, some people swear all the time and

others don't. Cuss less -- and think more --before posting.

[20] - If you have a problem with another member turn to the respective moderator and if the moderator can't help you send a

private message to Admin or one of the co-admins.

OK here we go, it's a long one so please bear with me and take the time to really read what has been said before you cast any

final judgements:

"Never spoke to the guy, never had any dealings with him except for the time he demanded money before he'd let me have a look

at a PAM DW scan laugh.gif

Personally I don't care if he's got out of reps. His choice. But this is different. To purposely go there and try to sleazily

ingratiate himself by 'spilling the beans' is out of order - also quite pathetic and sad, speaks volumes about his character.

(DocblacKroc)":

Did I really ask you for money to see a DW scan - no. Comments like that will stick in the minds of people even if it was meant

as a joke. Far from trying to ingratiate myself by "spilling the beans" my post on Risti about the rep market was simply an attempt to

dispel some of the myths that fly around there, and it was in response to a post about a rep that was being sold as genuine - someone

was about to lose a considerable sum of money. You will all be aware that the layout of the Risti forum is such that posts "disappear"

after a very short time - here there are specific categories and sub categories which are far more easily read at any later time.

I'm saddened that you cast a judgement on my character when, as you say, you have never had dealings with me or spoken to me.

"His constant excuse of "personal issues" preventing him from being able to stand up and post on RWG, and give members the goods

and money he stole from them, was just that - an excuse.

Now it looks like he's going to try and get in as a "fake" turned "I only own gen's now..." expert on the other forums.

His excuse for not being able to give everyone back what he stole from them, would be easily fixed with a good kick in the

groink.

I think there are still a number of members who's property was never returned, as well as a number who paid in advance for

datewheels and never got them, or their money.

Then to the mix, add the many watches he ruined, including a ETA 7753 powered 188 that was destroyed by his incompetance

(and you can't buy 7753 parts, so it's scrap, $1k down the drain).

I hope someone from here or TRC puts up a show and tell on Paneresti to show who Mark really is, and the truth behind him.

(The Zigmeister)":

The dictionary definition of stealing is:

1.To take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force.

2.To appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.

I have not stolen anything. Any members property that I have is still here and will be returned to them. I have already contacted

all but one of the 4 people who's watches I still have. If there are members who did not receive DW's then why have you not

told me. Things can go missing in the post and unless you tell me that you have not received it how am I to know? As for the many

watches I ruined - is that really true? Did I ruin many watches or just a few - did I in fact do many more very good jobs than I ruined?

Yes Kruzers 188 was something that I am ashamed of and he knows that (this was quite a long time ago) and it's a shame that you choose to bring this up again now. From what I recall you actually fixed it and there were no damaged beyond repair parts. Can you hold up your hand and say you always get it right? I can think of a couple of your re-lumes that I had to correct. My "personal issues" were

and are not an excuse, they are genuine but I will come on to that later. But I admit one of my big mistakes was to get involved with the more complicated movts as you are correct when you say my skills are not what they should be in this area.

"If he's outted, he can start naming names, and it wouldn't be pretty. Me, I'm buying a gen PAM next year, and it's not like

I'm going to be showing up to Risti GTGs anyway, so I'm not affected in that way.(vbarrett)":

I have absolutely no intention of naming any names or directly attacking anyone other than the few counter comments I may make here

- life's too short and there are far more serious things going on in the world - I'm not seeking any form of revenge.

"As for FinePics, utter scumbag for trying to reinvent himself thus. A bit like former burglars who then become Security

Consultants... He'll no doubt be up to his old games there, and I doubt they'll be as forgiving of his behaviour as folks

here have been. One way or another, be it in this life or the next, he'll be getting his comeuppance...(teejay)":

What exactly are my old games and what do you think I will do "Over there" - do you think Risti's will be sending me their watches

for a re-lume!! Really - be serious. Far from re-inventing myself I have never made a secret of who I am and my login name is the same

here as there.

"Wow.. I feel lucky not to have sent any money for those CG's that Mark was vouching for.. at 100 usd I could have lost a good

bit of change.(lanikai)":

That project was a serious one but was nothing to do with me, I simply vouched for it because I knew the person doing it - he wanted to remain anonymous because ironically he was worried about Risti finding out who he was as he had dealings there. However it ran out of steam due to the difficulties of finding someone to do it right and the usual RWG problem of getting members to commit then honour the commitment, something that those of you who have undertaken manufacturing projects will know all about - my DW's being a perfect example. What did happen to all those RWG'ers who pledged to buy then never actually did. No money was ever paid for the CG project and as I said I had absolutely no involvement in it so I resent the fact that this is raised now, it's an unnecessary post.

"The initial concern I have here is that Mark seems to working at winning over their confidences, could this be because he knows

there is a lot more margin in working on gens than reps?(Kenberg)":

This is just such a ridiculous thing to say, it's even more thoughtless than the above CG comment. I have actually been a member of Risti

for almost the same time as I have been here and I often added a post/reply here or there over the last few years (as have some of you). I don't need to win anybody's confidences thankyou very much - just what work is it you think they would be flocking to send me?

"Never cared much for Mark, even before he was outed as a hack scammer, if I'm being honest. The I taught myself watch making bit

is great. What a joke. And I love the line about not owning reps any more. Yeeeeeaa RIIIIIIIGHT! He might have one gen now

(I'm sure he could afford at least one after raping so many RWGers), but I guarantee he still has his reps.

Oh well, good riddance. But I think I've said that before.(Chieftang)":

Thanks Brian - how nice of you. I seem to recall helping you out with some answers to questions you asked about AR coats before you

started doing them so what axe do you have to grind with me to say what you have? As for my reps - I have sold all but one of them to

friends and colleagues. At no time have I ever attempted to pass any of them off as the real thing although I could very easily have

done so and raised a small fortune. The prices I sold them for reflected the mods done to them.

This money and monies raised from ebay selling of my personal property (nothing at all watch related) allowed me to purchase a gen. It's

surprising how much 30 or so reps adds up to even at face value - try counting up your own collections and see what I mean. But when

could I ever wear 30 watches - one of several reasons why I actually sold them. The one I kept - fiddy with the well known 177 serial so

would not fool anyone who knows their fiddys. It was always my favourite and I could never afford a gen - that's why it stays.

"On Mark, I continue to have mixed feelings. It sounds like there are plenty of people who have outright been ripped off. In my

case he did his best to make me whole by returning everything he had and doing what he could. Unfortunately he also tried things

that he could not handle. It was not a happy ending but I felt he had done what he could to rectify things and even did some

extra polishing and things that he was capable of. The few forum members who I am close to think I am nuts and was simply taken

advantage of. I will never knowMy feelings have now turned more to the negative now that I know he has moved on to Risti but

more importantly is now buying gens and people here are out money. I will always believe (perhaps I am an optimist) that he did

not join our form as a scammer. He got in way over his head. What is disappointing is that he ultimately fled. He is not the

first and will not be the last.(Kruzer)"

Kruzer - you of all people are the one I feel the most ashamed about having let down. You were always, and I hope will continue to be,

someone I could call a friend. I don't blame you for your comments but I do think you know me well enough to know I'm not what

some have said I am or what you have hinted at - I recall we spoke only recently - if you really thought me a scammer why didn't

you say so in private.

"I bought one of his date discs, and he shipped it to me. Was I ripped off? Techincally no. Ethically, yes. Was I [censored] off,

yes. It took over 6 months to get it, communication was terrible. He was very easy to get in touch with and answered my emails

promptly right up until I clicked send on my Paypal account. The disc did show up, but it was not the quality I was expecting

especially after paying 60 pounds. A few of the numbers had small bubbles in the printing, not noticable except under the loupe,

but still noticable.

I suggest that if he still owes you anything, send him a message on the board. or email him. His email is published on there.(stilty)"

This whole DW project was really the final straw for my membership here - none of you have the slightest idea just how much effort

and time were put into this project. I really wish I'd never started it. Every week for 8 months I was calling the printing company

to hurry them up only to be told of this problem and that problem (my cell phone bill was huge due to this). This one thing caused

me more stress than I could ever have imagined - not to mention Lello's re-appearance at a critical time. I lost a lot on this project

(and I don't particularly mean financially), If you feel I sold you out then this is one thing that I can say some members sold me out on.

Finding companies to make things for fake watches is hard enough (for obvious reasons) and then you're completely at their mercy -

the company doing my DW's let me down very badly but what could I do? It had come too far down the road to scrap them and start again.

My advice to anyone undertaking any projects for the so called greater good is don't, just to do it for yourself. As for the small

bubbles under a loupe - well some members expectations for perfection is another reason not to undertake projects - they cannot ever be perfect. I think most of you that had the DW's were more than satisfied with the overall result and the only time your watches would come under such close scrutiny that a loupe would be involved is if you were trying to sell it as the real thing, which none of you would ever do

- would you!!! This perfection issue is another reason why I've given up on reps.

"If it's decided someone approaches their Mods, I'll take the fall.

They know I'm a rep owner already, and even when I become legit next year, they won't interact with me, or very little.

So let me contact their mods and lay it out about what happened on RWG.(vbarrett)"

No need for this - as soon as Simon_uk submitted his post on Risti I approached the mods there and explained the situation. I did not

go into specific details, suffice it to say that I fully admitted that some of what was posted was true but much of it untrue and

grossly distorted. I voluntarily offered to resign from there as I have no wish to involve their board being used as a vehicle to settle

scores. To sum up their reply; they appreciated my coming to them but felt that as the situation was largely of my own making

(which I don't deny), and in order to maintain a harmonious forum, they would prefer me not to post again (although they have not

forbidden me totally). They have also said that they will immediately remove any such further posts made about me.

"In outing Mark on risti, what would the objective be.... Retribution.... a form of punishment? I seriously do not buy into the

fact that he is a scammer. He got in over his head yes, but I refuse to believe his intention was to scam this forum. Things went

wrong, he fled. Not the wisest of things to do, but it has happened. Before we go outing people through our own anger just consider

first of all what would the objective be for doing such a thing, is it to warn the risti's or would it to be a form of punishment.

If it's the latter, then I would hope we could all think about it first before lowering ourselves to such an act.(b16a2)"

Thankyou - someone who has not let their emotions run riot and given a sensible comment. As has been said I had not attempted to disguise my identity and my email address was always included in my posts there so I was far from hiding. But - in fairness perhaps this was the kick in the groink that I needed to properly deal with the outstanding issues that I have buried my head in the sand over for too long.

"Ok i own 2 gen watches myself that cost me alot of pain and money(over 4000$ each) to get so yes i understand but i DO NOT understand

why people on risti woud like to have a scammer among them and look down on a person that admits he is a activ poster on RWG to try

help them of that fact that he is innded a scammer amongs them. I will never be ashamed of being a member of RWG and neither shoud

other people.(Dani)"

Well I was an active poster here but not for a very long time - partly the reason we are all here now! I'm not or never have been ashamed of my membership here nor have I ever mentioned that over there. My passion for Panerai would not have been what it is were it not for this place. Actually not as many Risti look down on reps as you might think.

"As for Finepics.... ....out him and fukk him....he's only concerned with himself.....he 'fled' that's shorthand for 'fukk this...

I'm outta here"......and then pops up elsewhere as an 'expert'on fakes....and these stupid lemons are all over him like wildman's

shyte.....he's just currying favour.....at everyone here's expense.....someof you guys need a wake up call.....

get fukkin' real....!(TTK)"

Thanks TTK - wouldn't have expected anything less from you and almost take your words as a compliment!

"Ok so here is how I am thinking......If someone doesn't at least get in an Admins ear about Mark on 'risti and he goes on to

actually scam a few over there do you think they will love us more for not coming over and dirtying up their board or do you

think they might say "Fukk why didn't the bar stewards tell us he was a scammer?"(Kenberg)"

Definition of Scam:

1. a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Finepics

[ajoesmith]

OK Mark, i feel for you i do however, you make some comments on the definition of scamming/stealing

If people pay for something and you 'do a runner' is that not scamming/stealing?

I am one of those members who hasnt received a date wheel and I know there are many more.

Your apology is accepted but where is my date wheel or my refund?

[freddy333]

Mark - For what it is worth, I never had any dealings with you, so I cannot take sides. But, under the circumstances, instead of posting a blow-by-blow historical treatise of your past dealings, why not just post a brief apology, offer to clear up or make good on any outstanding issues and leave it at that. I would consider that the honorable thing to do.

[Beowoulf]

That must have taken a long time to write!

[mikellem]

Mark - For what it is worth, I never had any dealings with you, so I cannot take sides. But, under the circumstances, instead of posting a blow-by-blow historical treatise of your past dealings, why not just post a brief apology, offer to clear up or make good on any outstanding issues and leave it at that. I would consider that the honorable thing to do.

Perfect Freddy !

MM

[Corgi]

That must have taken a long time to write!

I know he wrote a book......... too much for a sleepy corgi tonight!!!

[mikellem]

Personally I have been away from the forum for about 6 months now. I did purchase a date wheel from Finepics and received as promised.

Mark has graciously answered many of the ignorant questions which I have greatly appreciated. I also feel Mark has contributed to this forum in the past and no one is acknowledging his credits.

I am sure Finepics has made some serious mistakes! I personally feel (after reading all of the above comments and accusations make by members), that no one is giving Mark any credit for anything.

My 2 cents..

Nice to be back...I have missed the forum very much!

MM

[ajoesmith]

Emailed mark and hes giving me a refund, all is not lost

[Victoria]

No need for this - as soon as Simon_uk submitted his post on Risti I approached the mods there and explained the situation. I did not go into specific details, suffice it to say that I fully admitted that some of what was posted was true but much of it untrue and grossly distorted. I voluntarily offered to resign from there as I have no wish to involve their board being used as a vehicle to settle scores. To sum up their reply they appreciated my coming to them but felt that as the situation was largely of my own making (which I don't deny) and in order to maintain a harmonious forum, they would prefer me not to post again (although they have not forbidden me totally). They have also said that they will immediately remove any such further posts made about me.

First, good on you for coming back here and taking whatever is coming to you, good and bad. Given the calibre of people on RWG, I'll think you know there are a lot of people who, no matter how they have felt these months after your departure, are willing to give you every chance to restitute yourself. Ajoesmith has said as much, and I'm sure others will too.

You're very lucky, you know. I know many another forum that wouldn't have given you this chance.

Finally to Simon_Uk - whoever you are - perhaps you should also be thanked as without your intervention I suppose you would not be reading this and my head would still be in the sand.

Yes, it would've been preferrable if it hadn't come to that.

If you had taken the bull by the horns and come back, facing the music out of your OWN, unprompted initiative, rather than have been outted as a reformed rep-owner at a gen forum, who had left others holding the baby elsewhere.

But hey.

We all need a little push now and again, don't we? None of us is perfect. Wishing everything ends well, since I have no dog in this fight. I just want to see people here suitably recompensed, and the atmosphere at peace.

However, Mark, I WOULD be interested in knowing what prompted you to post on Risti in the first place?

You must've known that there are dual members, both gen PAM owners, and lurkers who want to be at some point, who might've known about your problems on the fora before.

Why did you take the chance? Or were you tired of not being involved in watch forums and decided to throw caution to the wind?

It's an itch that sometimes needs to be scratched, I know. When you love watches, you want to be amongst your own.

[rocket754]

To even come back here and face an inevitable firing squad says a lot. That is just rockets 2 cent- nothing more.

[AMK000]

@finepics: Never dealt with you ... so no personal experience here.

Many of the things said for you ... maybe were not quite right ... but also many of the things you did (or you didn't as promised) were not quite right either.

Best thing you can do is to settle down all pending issues here asap (..... and that damaged 7753

[lanikai]

"Wow.. I feel lucky not to have sent any money for those CG's that Mark was vouching for.. at 100 usd I could have lost a good

bit of change.(lanikai)":

That project that was serious one and was nothing to do with me, I vouched for it because I knew the person doing - he wanted to remain

anonymous because ironically he was worried about Risti finding out who he was as he had dealings there. However it ran out of steam due to the difficulties of finding someone to do it right and the usual RWG problem of getting members to commit then honour the commitment, something that those of you who have undertaken manufacturing projects will know all about - my DW's being a perfect example. What did happen to all those RWG'ers who pledged to buy then never actually did. No money was ever paid for the CG project so I resent the fact that this is raised now, it's a stupid and unnecessary post.

Well, .. I don't know how you define"stupid" with your eloquence.. but I did email an order for 7 CG's.. now if i had sent the money which I would have done if I had gotten a reply .. now that would have been 'stupid'.. I have since learned not to be so trusting.... all i was going by was pics of your date wheel and the fact that they looked good .. without prior knowledge of the issues involved...accusations prior to investigation is a wrong .. no doubt..

i give you credit for stepping up to the plate and if this will start the healing process then that would be great for the entire forum..... "if" you were using this forum to upgrade your standing in the risti community .. but only you can answer that ...

i will keep an open mind .. but ultimately the ball is in your court as to making amends or setting things right with the members that feel that they have been taken advantage of...

so whatever you decide to do.. IMHO, if you choose to correct the errors then more power to you but "if" you are just 'getting back" for whatever transpired on risti then that will be an entirely seperate issue.. I think you have enough to deal with .. but you can only do that one member at a time.. so I wish you God's speed in whatever path you choose to take ... i hope you can make the right choices .. and members will judge the results for themselves... because ultimately i for one am not here to judge .. just to hope that you can find peace and if amends are needed that you are guided to the right ones..

Lanikai

[KB]

Undoubtedly Freddy hit the spot, a short concise apology and an effort made to fix problems is all that was needed.

Where did my comments come from?

I consider swdivad a friend and he is not here to state his case.

Ken

[baltic]

I've not said anything in the previous FP posts before. He did work (luming etc) on 2 or 3 of my PAMs and I was very pleased with the end results. A friend I recommended had a bit more trouble than me but eventually got it sorted. I hope this gets resolved quickly for all concerned and that we can move on. My 2p.

[r11co]

"As someone who spent 6 months without a PAM090 (well, 5 months and 3 weeks because I got it back for 1 week with a wrecked CG)

while Mark buggered about with it, and talked to him several times on the 'phone (on one occasion he offered me a 'tricked up'

PAM005 taking my damaged 090 as 'part exchange') and listened to his [censored] (apparently the CG for my 090 fell out a hole in

his briefcase on the way to his work) - I say throw him to the lions, although I suspect he'll [censored] on their doorstep soon enough

anyway.(r11co)"

As ridiculous as that might have sounded it was actually true (the CG). I agree I should not have tried to cover that up but in the end

I did get a brand new replacement case set for you and made good the work - something that you fail to mention! Perhaps you also might

care to speculate on what "[censored]" I would have done on their doorstep eh?

I also didn't mention the hand being put back incorrectly, or the scratched up case and caseback you returned to me the first time that necessitated the replacement case set

The fact is you knowingly sent me back a bodged-up watch rather than owning up to your mistakes. Did you think I wouldn't notice the different, ill fitting crown guard or the case damage (I still have the photos if anyone wants to see them)? Do you treat everyone with the same contempt?

OK, so you put it right within half a year and the re-lume job was great, but you proved to me that you couldn't be trusted to do a job right the first time and that you lacked integrity in that you were prepared to cover your mistakes in the vain hope they wouldn't be noticed.

That is what is called shitting on your doorstep. Good work brings good reviews in our community, but I couldn't possibly recommend your work to fellow forum members based on my experiences.

I concede you aren't a scammer. You were, however, an objectively bad trader. You crapped on some of us and now the smell is coming back to haunt you. Long diatribes aren't going to clear the smell.

[Viennawatch]

Its NOT just about a short apology. Sure it may have sufficed for YOU guys, but this long post needed to be written for Mark to clear his own mind. Plus, mentioning the people who pointed the stink finger at him in my opinion was a necessary and useful move on his part. Most of whom are long standing and respectful members, it will give him and us a little more indirect personal info about these people. Such as, are they going to read his post and apologize for their rash comments or are they just going to ignore his post due to either embarrassment or continuation of their beliefs about Mark. Remember, it takes a lot of guts to go up front against dozens of people who are accusing you of being a thief, scammer, or whatever and then making apologies. Now I believe its time for all those who did comment badly about him, to come up and reevaluate their position on Mark. If Mark, really WAS just having a hard time and did make some honest mistakes, then there is no reason not to trust him. Sure we will need to give it some time, whether it was his fault or not, situations like these always require time for everyone to trust again. However for some reason, I'll have a hard time trusting those who almost made Sashimi out of Mark with their comments and don't end up reevaluating their positions with facts and justified comments.

Just my two bit comments which are not out to get anyone, just trying to evaluate the situation.

VW

Edited November 11, 2007 by Viennawatch

[r11co]

Now I believe its time for all those who did comment badly about him, to come up and reevaluate their position on Mark.

Huh?!

Now it is the time for Mark to finally clear up all the long outstanding issues he has with forum members. The issues he ignored while he was still trading on ebay and posting in 'risti, still doing his day job and affording gen watches. The issues he left behind that he hoped would simply go away or weren't important enough to him to deal with in a timely manner.

Thankfully this latest shaming seems to have kicked Mark (albeit ungraciously) into action.

Talk is cheap, VW.

[KB]

Such as, are they going to read his post and apologize for their rash comments

Sorry but it is easy to see you have not been following this saga to say something like that, there were no rash comments made.

Ken

[Viennawatch]

Huh?!

Now it is the time for Mark to finally clear up all the long outstanding issues he has with forum members. The issues he ignored while he was still trading on ebay and posting in 'risti, still doing his day job and affording gen watches. The issues he left behind that he hoped would simply go away or weren't important enough to him to deal with in a timely manner.

Thankfully this latest shaming seems to have kicked Mark (albeit ungraciously) into action.

Talk is cheap, VW.

You're right rc11co, people can talk all they want, but it won't change a thing if they don't actually support their talk with actions. I admit it was a mistake on his part to have "fled" RWG. He should have just told everyone right there and then that he was having a bit of trouble and that things would be slow on his part, instead of grabbing the next flight out of RWG, would have made it a lot better for everyone and he could have sparred himself this debacle. However what happened happened and now he is apologizing. You can't expect him to immediately repair what he has damaged; he should start repairs NOW or ASAP, but it will DEFINITELY take time.

Although I did say we have to give this some time in my last post. Sorry for maybe not making clear sense, but what I meant was, we will have to wait and see if he will really support his words with actions. "Sure we will need to give it some time, whether it was his fault or not, situations like these always require time for everyone to trust again." However, I stick to what I said, if he DOES make things right, we SHOULD reevaluate our position towards him.

He DID make the first move to try and repair things with this post, if he were a scammer, why would he get himself entangled in an apology... To try and get the people's trust and then rip them off again? Call me naive if you want, but it just doesn't make sense to waste your time like this. I believe there are a lot more people out there getting scammed on bestswissrepever.com kind of websites than compared to the people who are on RWG and with the knowledge he has, he could definitely make a lot more money scamming people that way than here on RWG.

If a lot of you folks are adamant on your position about Mark, it won't change a thing anyways, he wouldn't get far or away with anything on RWG and I think he knows that and we all do as well.

Anyways, I just hope that Mark is true to his words and that he will truly try his best to make reparations to those who need it.

Regards,

VW

[Viennawatch]

Sorry but it is easy to see you have not been following this saga to say something like that, there were no rash comments made.

Ken

You are partially right about that, I haven't been following it entirely, but I have to some extent, sorry for the inappropriate use of words.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Viennawatch

[linkukbora]

@ Mark,

I've ordered 03 pcs of 2893 DW since Jan,2007 and have yet to receive from you despite repeated emails sent to you. I've now sent you another email and awaits your long overdue answer.

[docblackrock]

OK here we go, it's a long one so please bear with me and take the time to really read what has been said before you cast any final judgements:

"Never spoke to the guy, never had any dealings with him except for the time he demanded money before he'd let me have a look

at a PAM DW scan laugh.gif

Personally I don't care if he's got out of reps. His choice. But this is different. To purposely go there and try to sleazily

ingratiate himself by 'spilling the beans' is out of order - also quite pathetic and sad, speaks volumes about his character.

(DocblacKroc)":

Did I really ask you for money to see a DW scan - no. Comments like that will stick in the minds of people even if it was meant

as a joke.

I'm saddened that you cast a judgement on my character when, as you say, you have never had dealings with me or spoken to me.

Reading VW's post about those pirhanas who joined the frenzy without cause, I thought I ought to respond to this rejoinder from Mark for the record if nothing else.

Well having looked just now, it seems I still have the PM from Mark from 18 months ago. Not good form to share it here though but all I'll say is his response to my offer of help with the stillborn production of one of his DW projects (artwork issue I think - and my GF is a typography-trained graphic designer) was that sending the DW scan to me would be fine..... EXCEPT it cost him money to produce and so he 'required a little "consideration" ' for his troubles. Whilst I will concede my use of the word "demanded" here was not correct on checking the details, I was taken aback by the tone of his response and the suggestion contained therein.

I'm glad that happened though as that first impression from direct contact, made my mind up, which clearly spared me a lot of time and grief down the line.

[Victoria]

He DID make the first move to try and repair things with this post, if he were a scammer, why would he get himself entangled in an apology... To try and get the people's trust and then rip them off again? Call me naive if you want, but it just doesn't make sense to waste your time like this. I believe there are a lot more people out there getting scammed on bestswissrepever.com kind of websites than compared to the people who are on RWG and with the knowledge he has, he could definitely make a lot more money scamming people that way than here on RWG.

Actually, one of the theories (or shall we say, question as to motive) posed by Lanikai on top is interesting...hope you read that.

If a lot of you folks are adamant on your position about Mark, it won't change a thing anyways, he wouldn't get far or away with anything on RWG and I think he knows that and we all do as well.

I give the Admin team a lot of credit for not banning Mark outright. It shows a spirit of incredible fair play to allow someone the chance to defend himself, at a later date, given what happened.

(Banning was the case with Smushed-Finger-Joe, as I call him, whose services were no longer required after many outrageous modding attempts, and with no show of contrition...)

Anyways, I just hope that Mark is true to his words and that he will truly try his best to make reparations to those who need it.

I'm sure he will. Now.

[Watchmeister]

Pleased to see the response from Mark. I actually think responding to specific comments is helpful. It allows the initial poster to reflect on their comments. Some folks may owe an apology - especially if they have never even met or done things with Mark. Some folks may not. In my case, I stand by my general opinion. I did a couple of projects with him and others. Some were successful and other weren't. That is always the case when embarking on projects. And I believe they were entered into with the best of intentions. In my case I was even okay with the concept of attempting to upgrade a watch or two and the possibility of failure. Well, on that score we both made a mistake. Neither he nor I knew what would be involved.

But here is the rub as long as we are going to go there. I never thought about asking for the money for say a new movement or for the cost of making the other one work or even the upfront payment on the initial labor. IMHO, that is not the game. And I am not asking for it now. Although it has never happened with Ziggy, he and I have done several projects where we knew there was a real chance that the watch could be trashed. But where I did find it surprising is that I willingly took the economic loss on the assumption that Mark had tried his best (true) and was so upset about it that I thought he was done with watches (false). And I know he had actually invested money trying to make things right where he could.

If someone walks away from the watch game as people have in the past so be it. But this is not the case. To the contrary, Mark is now a full fledged gen owning member of Risti having not only bought gens but even having traveled to GTG's if I read that forum correctly. Everyone can conclude what they want. And for the record yes I have long since considered Mark a friend and do have mixed feelings.

In closing, I do hope people have largely resolved whatever issues they have with Mark. And I hope and assume that those who still have issues will PM him directly and he will respond.

[AMK000]

That all conversation about Finepics ... brings to my mind a different but a rather