An open letter from Ziggy to the members of RWG.

[RWG Technical]

An open letter to RWG members.

EDIT: I am not retiring from watchsmithing, or modding. I will be available in January for new work.

I am stepping away from the forum, for how long, I don’t know. I have decided it is time for a break. Replica watch forums are the first forums I joined, and to this day remain the only forums I frequent. When I joined RWG1 in Oct ’04, I decided that my contribution would be in areas that I had some working knowledge – movements and watch repair, which progressed to Super Lume application and than additional mods at the request of customers. I had enjoyed writing up general informative posts to dispel the mystery of movements for the benefit of the membership and helping members with technical movement questions when their watches had problems.

I am told that I don’t tolerate fools well, that I tend to speak my mind, and strive for perfection when I do a job. These attributes (or faults depending on your perspective) serve me well in aviation and have kept me alive (and my pilots and passengers as well) on more than one occasion. I carry those standards with me when I do watch work. My approach is to do it until I get it right and to always aim for perfection when possible. There is only one way to do a task – the right way. That being said, I have little time for people who have an opposing point of view. If you tie all this together it should not be surprising that I speak out when I see poor workmanship or members being taken advantage of. And I do have to add that there are and have been other skilled watch smiths on the forum. There is a long history of both good and bad watchsmiths on the forum. What is particularly frustrating is that there are no standards for watchsmiths or modders and this is just unacceptable to me.

Two examples of watchsmiths who I had issues with are RBJ and Flav. I had problems with both of them for various reasons. In the case of RBJ, there were numerous complaints which ranged from holding watches hostage for months or even years, providing poor workmanship in many instances on those watches that members got back, and even scamming members (by not actually doing anything, yet charging them for a service), installing so called “Genuine parts”, etc.

In Flav’s case, over a year ago, I got a PAM 029 in that he had worked on. I had previously fully serviced this particular watch and lumed it. The owner had Flav install genuine hands. After the watch came back from Flav, power reserve dropped to a few hours from the 40 it had originally, and the GMT hand was out of sync. The watch was sent back to me and I fixed it. This summer, another 029 that Flav had worked on is sent to me, it has numerous problems; terrible lume, a damaged CG, hands touching, overcharging for a datewheel replacement, etc (member Lanikai’s watch in case your wondering). I found some of the same problems on this watch as I did on the one a year ago, Flav never realized or corrected his mistakes. Flav also offers a service where he will “Lubricate” your movement without actually taking it apart. This amounts to nothing more than a scam and it’s the same as pouring a quart of oil over your engine, and calling it an oil change.

Despite all of this, RBJ was ultimately banned not because he took advantage of many members, but because he made the mistake of revealing the personal information of a senior admin person. Flav announced his retirement and left RWG after the Lanikai incident. You can still find Flav on RepGeek and RWI, and RBJ on RWI.

Although both individuals don’t come here anymore, there is no place on the forum which gives insight about what has taken place. Now granted RBJ and Flav must have done some good quality work along the way, but I have yet to see any of it. I wouldn’t expect to though, since I only hear about it when I have to fix someone else’s mistakes. You will find recent posts on RWG where another modder speaks highly of Flav and states that Flav is a “master craftsman” (and if you go to Flav’s website, he boldly states that he is a “Master Watchmaker”). Someone looking for mods, could seek out and find Flav and end up in the same position as Lanikai, or the member who’s Mini-Fiddy I showed a couple of weeks ago (close to $1k for that watch). Or they could end up sending a watch to RBJ and end up as so many others have…

In the past few months a couple of new modders have shown up offering lume and the ever popular “Oiling” without disassembly service. I have had a few of their watches in the shop, posted some pics of the workmanship or more accurately the lack of workmanship.

This week member “Watchbuff” posts about a Franken watch he assembled, and in doing so he bent the hands to clear the dial (instead of installing the correct parts and having the hands parallel to the dial and each other). When he tried to insert the movement into the case, he discovered that the stem was not centered in the crown tube. It was so far out of alignment that he needed to cut metal away from the case and crown tube, to get the crown to screw on to the stem. He’s done this before, and the results have been totally predictable – problems, and broken stems.

So what happens? I call Watchbuff out, and say that this is not the way to do watch work and it’s unacceptable, especially when you’re doing it for others and charging money. Members, who you would think know better, rally around Watchbuff and in effect tell him to “keep it up”, “ don’t let Ziggy get you down”, “we’re on your side”… Unbelievable, but I chalk that up to ignorance.

The supporters of the aforementioned folks will say that I am trying to eliminate competition. Nothing could be further from the truth. I generally have as much work as I can take and so I try to be supportive of those who are capable of delivering forum members good service at reasonable prices. In a perfect world all members would have access to competent and reasonable watch smiths. Over the years you will not find a negative post concerning people like Vaccum, Palp (when he was here), or Repaustria. They did and do good work and so there is no need to call them out. I speak out against shoddy workmanship and scams. I tell it like I see it, and have always tried to save the members from poor workmanship, being scammed or overpaying for bogus procedures. When I see examples like the one from Watchbuff, I consider it my obligation to the membership of RWG to speak out. Whenever I do speak out, I get blasted for it. It does bother me when I see members getting scammed.

I will offer these final thoughts to those who run the site. One of the guiding principles of this forum has been to protect the membership. And the site is generally quick to do so when it comes to dealers. I believe that watchsmith’s and modders should be held to the same standard. Especially when I am increasingly seeing watches where more money is spent on the mods than on the watch. These people seem to be untouchable. That is unacceptable to me as someone who takes pride in his service to forum members.

If I do drift back here, it will be for show and tell on interesting projects. I still have many friends who spend time here. But I am no longer going to get involved with the goings on here and who is doing what to member’s watches. And no, I do not want to see, or have sent to me, or hear about watches mangled by incompetent modders. Too many members are too quick to mention it privately and hide when I bring up the topic on the general forum.

On a brighter note, Happy Holidays to all.

Rob

[yt74]

I am very sorry to read this I hope you come back soon. I have followed your work and postings on 2 boards now and this announcement breaks my heart! I had a MBW 16610 in need of a relume, now I guess it will never get it...

[dylan]

I respect your decision and understand the frustration. I do hope to see you here again because your insights and numerous posts have been illuminating and I've learned so much from them. Thank you for your time here and the education I received.

[HauteHippie]

The Zigmeister, your participation will be truly missed. You are a big reason why RWG has been a mile ahead of the rest and things will not be the same. Your breadth of knowledge, attention to detail, sense of fairness, and willingness to help is unparalleled. Today ought to be known as Black Thursday in RWG's history, and I can only hope that it will merely be an extended sabbatical, as opposed to permanent leave, from the forum.

[Jetsons]

Personally, I believe this post should be made a sticky. I am a strong believer that members should be made aware of the incompetent work that is being performed on their watches by certain so called watch experts and to add insult to injury, at an alarming cost.

As you know, I have seen detailed photos of certain of the watches you mentioned. The absurd quality of the work can at times, not be seen by the casual observer. Once the watch is opened & parts examined, it can be a very sad story. As with you, I also feel for the owners.

This is a huge loss to all of us.

Have a terrific & safe Holiday Season!

All the best,

Jet

[kosemkamtsan]

Excellent post and way to tell it like it is!!!! The truth and lies can both push us ahead with equal speed. But only honesty pushes us in the right direction. Hey that's a great quote!! Claiming ownership of that quote!!

[deltatahoe]

Ziggy, your participation will be truly missed. You are a big reason why RWG has been a mile ahead of the rest and things will not be the same. Your breadth of knowledge, attention to detail, sense of fairness, and willingness to help is unparalleled. Today ought to be known as Black Thursday in RWG's history, and I can only hope that it will merely be an extended sabbatical, as opposed to permanent leave, from the forum.

couldn't have said it better chief

we'll miss you sorely ziggy; i'm hoping your love of all things watches will bring you back to RWG more often than not....

happy holidays; i hope you enjoy the extra time with your family & lovely lady :smile:

deltatahoe

[LordRasta]

The Zigmeister, you have contributed 1,948 informative posts. That number alone speaks for itself. If you ever need anything, please call on me. I never turn my friends down.

[Dani]

I hope we can stay in touch by mail The Zigmeister..

I have since become member of RWG back when you joined RWG in 04 read alot of your posts and enjoyed them,learnt alot also

Cheers,

Dani

[lanikai]

Ziggy,

I need to "again" let you know the humble appreciation for the posting of my 029 this past summer and your relentless work and," never give up", mindset towards making it whole ... this I need to do again publicly.

As i have read in your letter you are not retiring from watchsmith work... but your (hopefully temporary) abscense from RWG will leave a huge void.. as in the short time that I have been here i have learned from your reviews and have made value added buy's because of them.

I was talking to a friend today about watchsmiths in Hawaii and in general.. that the good ones that "used" to work on mechanical movements are all retired as the new generation of watchsmiths are good for changing batteries and resizing bracelets. .. she took her Dads rolex to a watchsmith and was charged 750 USD for cleaning and servicing which amounted to blowing out the dust and as you call it pouring oil over an engine.. I thought of what you charge us for full service of a A7750 and felt "Lucky" to have your services..

With that said .. again I hope someday soon you will return to conditions that compliment your ethics.. and again the RWG will have it's," Heart and Soul" Until that day comes...

Aloha Ke Akua .. to you and yours

(God is Love)

Have a Blessed and safe Holiday Season

Lanikai

[The Mentalist]

In the short time I have been here you've been a treasure trove of information and an inspiration. You've probably forgotten more about watchmaking than most people here will ever learn. I just wish I could have you work on one of my watches one day. I have to admit, this place will be a lot poorer without you to debunk the myths and scams which fly around. Adieu and happy holidays to you Zig!

[mezzanine]

I don't know if anyone else started feeling really depressed while reading that, but I know that I did.

I had a bad feeling a couple of months back, left for a while myself, and then came back. Hopefully you will be back at some point- there's no question that the community has benefitted tremendously from your efforts on many levels.

Sometimes it's about the relationship you have with yourself and your own perceptions or principles, and not anything else. It isn't necessarily about passing judgment, but more about having to step back and take a look at how one can feel comfortable in a particular environment, when that environment may occasionally drift on it's principal purpose.

The forum is to prevent people from getting ripped off. It's a very difficult environment to deal in without getting 'caught', in terms of avoiding some of the questionable practices that go on. What is frustrating, is if your honesty and straight-up attitude doesn't get 'priced' into the marketplace. This means that the marketplace itself carries a risk factor that you have to absorb yourself, but that you don't end up passing onto your customer, in terms of how the value of that reliability and basic business ethics gets reflected in your pricing.

A very unfortunate situation. I believe this should be a catalyst for a new focus on the need to use this place as an collective alliance against practices that are untrustworthy or otherwise sketchy in the rep world. Hopefully we can re-new our spirit of commitment to the ethical sharing of information about the marketplace in a transparent manner.

Maybe we'll see you around in the future, should that happen, and maybe we'll have begun to appreciate the value of what a fair and honest culture can bring out in people of their own free choosing- as Rob has done on this forum since it was created.

[JoJo35]

Rob,

Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed explanation of your feelings concerning this site, mods, scammers, etc.

Being fairly new to this hobby, I can say very honestly that finding this site a little over a year ago has inspired me to learn as much as I could about rep watches. My very first rep was one I bought for forty bucks on the street in front of the Empire State Building on 34th St. At the time, I couldn't believe how great the watch looked. Now I look back and realize what an incredibly poor watch it actually was. Learning things here on the forum has taught me that; especially posts you have made.

I agree that for someone who has an analytical mind, shortcuts motivated by pure laziness are totally unacceptable. Although I don't have to worry about stall speeds in my line of work, running into burning buildings without sizing up appropriately will kill just as fast. Luckily for me I have not lost anyone close since September of '01.

Reading your posts have always been an education for me, and I will miss reading your latest. As I'm sure many here will agree, not only are you a complete gentleman in person, but the information you have always given freely to each and every member here though your posts is priceless.

For everyone who reads this, here are two complete works of art Rob has done for me. Without a doubt, these are art, and worth much more than something someone can just go out and buy anywhere:

[Cucumber_Jones]

We will miss you you crazy easterner! Enjoy your time away - I agree with your reasoning.

[its_urabus]

The Zigmeister, I look forward to our possible future dealings, I have a number of jobs that I want no one else on the planet to work on other than you. I have said it before, and will say it over and over again; you are a master. I am in awe of the work that you do. Happy holidays sir. and thank you

[TwoTone]

Ziggy:

You already know how I feel...

I'd like to make a couple of notes regarding your post:

• Watchbuff is no longer a member of this community
  
• His Banning took place earlier today [before your post] for separate reasons
  
• We have discussed in the past in Admin, and now will again, the need for Moderating of Modders in our community
  
• And finally, I [we] appreciate you not making this personal in the open-forum and keeping it purely business
  
• We know where you stand on the other issue
  

You are truly a gentlemen and a scholar...

Double T

[Jawo]

Rob,

You are a great man of integrity and practice implicit business accumen. I have sent you many watches over the past 8 months since rep collecting and I can honestly say that you have been an asset to this hobby. Your insight and knowledge in the rep world is the reason I still collect and keep coming back to this forum. I appreciate a person who tells it like it is, because this is how I am also. I hope your break is not a very long one as I am sure you will be missed by all. I wish you and Jennifer a very Merry Christmas and look forward to seeing you back again.

[Logan]

Back before there was rocket building, nuclear programs, and so on the most skilled mechanical occupation was probably watchmaking. People forget that today and allow self taught amateurs loose on watches they have no business playing with, let alone performing complex modifications to. Its a pity we don't have a few more people here with some real watchmaking skill, we desperately need them.

[Guest Badsrash]

Funny, I don't think I'll miss him. He seemed arrogant

[Jawo]

Funny, I don't think I'll miss him. He seemed arrogant

You are not wanted here TROLL. I suggest a ban.

[mezzanine]

Funny, I don't think I'll miss him. He seemed arrogant

I've moderated enough forums to know a banned troll back with a new account when I see one...

[section8]

Rob, I will definitely miss your posts and hope that you don't stay away for too long. I am very glad to see that you will still be accepting appointments as i have 3 or 4 vintage watches that need a lot of love.

Cheers,

-Joe

[Nebakanezzar]

Funny, I don't think I'll miss him. He seemed arrogant

HAHA, nice first post!..................tard.

Hey Rob, have a good break.

I look forward to having you work on more of my watches in the future, I hope you never forget there are more of us here who recognize your craftsmanship and priceless contributions to this forum, then idiots who cant tell the difference.

happy holidays.

Neb.

[FxrAndy]

Im sorry i wont be very eloquant but the [censored] just dropped out of the world, this is what bitching and snipping has achived, and all the words that i would have wanted to to used are censored like [censored]in [censored] stop being a bunch of [censored] sucking twats and grow up just try to be civil to one another and normal. i tell you all what we just lost number 1 asset. [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored]. lets have a GTG so i can tell you all what i feel! lets do it at my house pm me for the address.

[Daytona4me]

These forums can suck the life out of you, people can only read black words on white pages and easily miss the intent behind them.

This causes frustration and ultimately defending ones self for attempting to help. You find yourself scratching your head wondering why someone doesnt understand common sense and is so quick to purchase snake oil. As frustrations mount and exhaustion sets in, you can easily find yourself burned out from forum life.

Enjoy yourself while you take a break from forums.

P.S. I know that members who call RWI home will miss coming to RWG and reading your posts.. you will be missed community wide!