sssurfer Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 We all heard that almost all the PAM reps have inaccurate "A"s in the "PANERAI" and "MARINA" text. That inaccuracy would consist in the horizontal dash, placed lower than in the gen. I tried to objectively compare the text between a gen and a rep. As a gen I picked up a 111 because it is a common model. As a rep I do not own a 111, I had to use a 090 (Joshua's model). Look at what I found: I would say it's not a matter of low horizontal dashes. It's a matter of thin horizontal dashes, not in the "A" only, but everywhere, also in the "L", "P", "R" and "E". So that all the inner black areas inside those letters look larger. This can hardly be detected in the "L", but it looks evident in the "P", "R", "E" -- and especially in the "A", probably because the inner black area of the "A" is the smallest of all, so that even a minor difference shows up more evident. (Quite difficult to explain it with my poor English, my apologies). Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) No there are lots of rep dials out there with MUCH lower crossbars on the "A"s. Josh's 090 dial just appears to be pretty good... Some of Davidsen's dials have more accurate "A"s, too. My 010 has great fonts, IMO. Edited March 7, 2008 by peepshow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgi Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 I think if you are starting to obsess about something this small you have officially gone replica insane. Honestly who is going to notice the dash in the "A" of your watch is 0.003 mm too think when you're walking down the street? If you put a microscope to your replica there is more than just the horizontal font dashes that are incorrect.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 It's EASILY noticeable if you know what to look for. You don't need a loupe to spot it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mentalist Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 I think if you are starting to obsess about something this small you have officially gone replica insane. Honestly who is going to notice the dash in the "A" of your watch is 0.003 mm too think when you're walking down the street? If you put a microscope to your replica there is more than just the horizontal font dashes that are incorrect.. I've been staring at mine for the past 15 minutes under a 30x loupe and I can't really see what's wrong with the A. Sometimes I think you folks have too much time on your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Look at the dial of my Angus "Ultimate" 001B, tell me those "A"s aren't easily spotted? This dial is much more representative of a "normal" rep dial. Not *all* reps have the low crossbar "A"s, but most do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavidoc Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 I think if you are starting to obsess about something this small you have officially gone replica insane. Honestly who is going to notice the dash in the "A" of your watch is 0.003 mm too think when you're walking down the street? If you put a microscope to your replica there is more than just the horizontal font dashes that are incorrect.. I've never really personally understood the infatuation with the issue over fonts for the same reasons as the others. While I wouldn't say those who obsess over them are a few short, I will say...."Wow." Incorrect levers, funky crown guards, thin crowns, canon pins, CG pins, floppy levers, sub dials that should be sunk...I can understand those as they are aesthetic parts of the design that are noticeable from a distance but fonts? I guess my point is that to me, if you're that concerned with an "A" or a horizontal dash well you've gone beyond the need for a decent replica of a killer design into the realm of wanting to trully try to deceive everyday Joe's and even some original owners into thinking that you're not just trying to keep up with the Joneses but that you are one of the Joneses. My 1 RMB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 If the letters were R..E..P on the dial, be concerned and religate your watch to some dark lower drawer somewhere, maybe in the Outer Hebrides. Imperfection spotting has started to go way too far, to be funny or even intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mentalist Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Look at the dial of my Angus "Ultimate" 001B, tell me those "A"s aren't easily spotted? This dial is much more representative of a "normal" rep dial. Not *all* reps have the low crossbar "A"s, but most do. Honestly? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Look at the dial of my Angus "Ultimate" 001B, tell me those "A"s aren't easily spotted? This dial is much more representative of a "normal" rep dial. Not *all* reps have the low crossbar "A"s, but most do. Agree - i can see that in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 well. may be you should use rep 111 to make a valid comparison. Low "A" IS a problem for most reps: 111, 112, 177, etc. I tried to objectively compare the text between a gen and a rep. As a gen I picked up a 111 because it is a common model. As a rep I do not own a 111, I had to use a 090 (Joshua's model). Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Definitely low crossbars on letter A on most historic Panerai reps, including mech Radiomirs. Fiddy (1950) is an exception. Most of the contemporary autos come with correct letter A these days. Subs, GMTs and PRs from the past (24, 27, 28, 29, 63 etc) all come with low crossbar. Latest subs are OK in this respect. It drives some people nuts, others gave up and just learned to live with these imperfections. cheers, babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Thanks to peepshow, mil_sub and babola for their replies that add to the collective knowledge about the matter. E.g., I was not in knowledge of which reps are better and which worse about the "A" issue. Thanks to cksent69 for taking part. Thanks to all the others for their amusing criticisms. As babola pointed out, someone can't stand the "A" issue, many others don't even notice it. To me, all this rep thing is a hobby and a game, where I like to discuss about all details, even the tiniest ones, and even when they do not really bother me as someone may think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Very interresting for a Pam noob. Thanks for pointing this again and showing some evidences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 M- It is funny you brought this up. I was just looking at a 188 where I put on the 2nd gen dial in old case. It looks to me that they had the nerve to fix the first "A" in Panerai and then leave the second one lower. Low A's are the bane of PAM modders. And has been said it varies both in various rep models and frankly the gens as well. It is not always the same on the gens either. And the obviousness completely depends on the model and the resultant words on the dial and size of the words. On a handwind it is blatantly obvious - much less so on a a complex automatic where the words are smaller. There are definitely good and bad low "A"'s as well. As the text gets smaller the room for error gets smaller. And for those who are rolling their eyes - to each their own. I would also make the observation that those who obsess on this are actually the last folks to try and deceive others. Why? Because to them it is just so obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Look at the dial of my Angus "Ultimate" 001B, tell me those "A"s aren't easily spotted? This dial is much more representative of a "normal" rep dial. Not *all* reps have the low crossbar "A"s, but most do. You are right. That is absolutely disgusting. I think you and all owners of such hideous timepieces should send them ALL to me for proper recycling where I will make sure they never see the light of day in front of another Paneristi again. Sincerely, Toad "It's Close Enough for Jazz" Torrent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmcsherry Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 I've been staring at mine for the past 15 minutes under a 30x loupe... Sometimes I think you folks have too much time on your hands. Something about that sentence made me chuckle. I hadn't noticed the A's until a few months ago - they are very noticable when you know what to look for, and are frustratingly easy to correct (in Illustrator, convert the text to a path and change the location of the horizontal bar. Not that difficult really when you look at the lengths rep makers go to!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Thanks to all the others for their amusing criticisms. As babola pointed out, someone can't stand the "A" issue, many others don't even notice it. To me, all this rep thing is a hobby and a game, where I like to discuss about all details, even the tiniest ones, and even when they do not really bother me as someone may think. Yep, it is a game. Part of the game, for me, is to make the reps I buy better. Better to me is anything that improves the reliability, accuracy or functionality of the watch. The same reason I like to modify cars or motorcycles, really. Do any of these things NEED modification? Not really, but it's fun. I'm not out to fool anyone. No, the low crossbars won't cause me to put the watch away in a drawer and never wear it, I knew it had low crossbars when I ordered it. However, just because that flaw won't keep me from wearing the watch isn't a reason for me to pretend it's not there or not easily spotted if you know what to look for. Most people don't. There was a dial being sold on ViaPaneristi.com that was a rep dial, spotted by the low crossbars in the letter "A". The seller didn't know it was a rep and kye_lin almost bought it for $750. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 It's all a conspiracy! Okay let's not go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) ... Something about that sentence made me chuckle. I hadn't noticed the A's until a few months ago - they are very noticable when you know what to look for, and are frustratingly easy to correct (in Illustrator, convert the text to a path and change the location of the horizontal bar. Not that difficult really when you look at the lengths rep makers go to!) Totally agree - the frustration comes not from the degree of inaccuracy but the level of needlessness. This could be sorted in a heartbeat but it seem's to be a case of; 'the light's on but there's no-one at home'. Just consider the extent of re-engineering that goes into trying to replicate the Panerai E and H series movements, which won't be visible on your wrist, while a couple of minutes work would correct the dial flaws. Edited March 7, 2008 by PAMman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgi Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Look at the dial of my Angus "Ultimate" 001B, tell me those "A"s aren't easily spotted? This dial is much more representative of a "normal" rep dial. Not *all* reps have the low crossbar "A"s, but most do. Yes I see it now! HOrrible! The only solution is to get rid of that watch by sending it to me at the following address............ Dude... Chill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Yes I see it now! HOrrible! The only solution is to get rid of that watch by sending it to me at the following address............ Dude... Chill. Peepshow chilled by going out and getting himself a beautiful gen. BTW, guys, I just don't see it. I need to meet one of you good people so you can explain it to me like I'm a 3 year-old. @Corgi: Great avatar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 This is one of those minute issues which once you see it a couple of times it is an instant tell. You have to decide whether you care. On the plus side it does enable you to tell fairly quickly whether you are bidding on a rep or a gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 I need to meet one of you good people Agree. May I offer myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noslen Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Peepshow chilled by going out and getting himself a beautiful gen. BTW, guys, I just don't see it. I need to meet one of you good people so you can explain it to me like I'm a 3 year-old. @Corgi: Great avatar! Victoria - the "cross" of the letter A is lower on most reps than on the gen: Gen: Rep: Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.