Lives have Changed

[SportsterRider]

I am actually excited about these rising gas prices. They may mark the end of an age, but they present new and exciting opportunities for those who are willing to work hard and be creative.

The higher gas prices are responsible for what now provides my family a living. I got out of IT work and now work as a mud logger/geologist on natural gas wells. The wells we're drilling now weren't economically practical just three years ago. Now they're a big money maker for the gas companies, and my family is benefiting from it.

[lanikai]

Keep in mind that European countries tax their gasoline differently than the US does. This was a large part of why there was such a difference in prices. Your famed public transportation system is paid for, in part at least, by the taxes on your petrol. Europe is also a much more compact area than the US, so the smaller cars/engines made/make sense there.

As far as public transportation and smart cars go, we already do that in areas where it's appropriate. Keep in mind, the US is a VAST country. Public transportation just isn't practical in large parts of this country, and large SUV's/Trucks are still a necessity in many walks of life over here. Sure, the grocery getter Hummer will likely go the way of the Do-Do, but many of us need a 10mpg pickup truck for the work we do. I travel 425 miles to the jobsite, one way, in my V10 Dodge truck that get 11mpg. In order to do my job, I need it. A smart car won't pull a 5500 pound trailer into the Kentucky mountains on lease roads.

Also, the days of muscle cars as 'treats' have been over for years (assuming you're talking about 60's-70's muscle cars as the term really only applies to cars from that era), except for the very wealthy. And for those folks, gas prices don't mean squat. As far as 'fast' cars go, there are plenty that get excellent fuel economy and most of the 'kids' over here are into 4cyl Subaru's and Mitsubishi's anyway.

Each state is Autonomous when it comes to the taxes at the pump .. the public trasprtation is not run by the federal government ..

American muscles cars can be the original to the present Corvette.. IMO.. Impala's .. Mustangs still pack a punch with their engines.. my company cargo van needs about 40 usd per day ... your V10 must get 5mpg when your hauling... sheesh... we're not talking your family SUV here..

[SportsterRider]

Each state is Autonomous when it comes to the taxes at the pump .. the public trasprtation is not run by the federal government ..

American muscles cars can be the original to the present Corvette.. IMO.. Impala's .. Mustangs still pack a punch with their engines.. my company cargo van needs about 40 usd per day ... your V10 must get 5mpg when your hauling... sheesh... we're not talking your family SUV here..

'Nor should it be, assuming you understand how the US works relative to it's states autonomy. The basic point was that you can't directly compare Europe's gas prices, public transportation or automotive trends to the US. It's apples to oranges for MANY reasons. My drive from Pittsburgh to WV or KY is 400+ miles. From 75 miles outside Pittsburgh, to Charleston WV, there is NOTHING but open road and country. Sorry, there is no public transportation for that, other than booking a flight. Even when I worked in Pittsburgh, public transportation from my home to the city was spotty at best. Not because of poor planning, but because of the distance! People seem to forget that the US isn't just NYC and LA (or the tiny Hawaiian islands.) There's a whole helluva lot in between that can't be 'fixed' with a bus, or a small engined car.

The present day Corvette has absolutely nothing in common with a true Muscle Car, 'nor does the Mustang (other than the name and number of cylinders). Muscle cars were big block, big inch, gas guzzling beasts. They made power with cubic inches. The current day V8 American performance cars (of which, there are what, three or four?) are excellent on fuel considering the output and certainly when compared to a real Muscle Car. But even that doesn't change the fact that today, the 'kids' are into the 4cyl imports. That is the 'toy' most kids go for. That was the point I was trying to make.

Actually, my mileage doesn't drop that much when towing. I get about 8-9 mpg when hauling the trailer. But it's just the cost of doing business. In order to do what I do, that's what it takes. Same for the 'jerk' suburbanite that has the huge SUV. Many of them have big families, and/or boats, or trailers they use for vacations, work, etc, etc, etc. It's cheaper for them to own the SUV and use that all the time than it is to own multiple vehicles for multiple purposes. Again, apples to oranges when talking about stuff like this. I wish people would realize that before making rash judgements about how folks in the US live, work, drive, whatever, relative to this topic.

[hiker01]

'Nor should it be, assuming you understand how the US works relative to it's states autonomy. The basic point was that you can't directly compare Europe's gas prices, public transportation or automotive trends to the US. It's apples to oranges for MANY reasons. My drive from Pittsburgh to WV or KY is 400+ miles. From 75 miles outside Pittsburgh, to Charleston WV, there is NOTHING but open road and country. Sorry, there is no public transportation for that, other than booking a flight. Even when I worked in Pittsburgh, public transportation from my home to the city was spotty at best. Not because of poor planning, but because of the distance! People seem to forget that the US isn't just NYC and LA (or the tiny Hawaiian islands.) There's a whole helluva lot in between that can't be 'fixed' with a bus, or a small engined car.

The present day Corvette has absolutely nothing in common with a true Muscle Car, 'nor does the Mustang (other than the name and number of cylinders). Muscle cars were big block, big inch, gas guzzling beasts. They made power with cubic inches. The current day V8 American performance cars (of which, there are what, three or four?) are excellent on fuel considering the output and certainly when compared to a real Muscle Car. But even that doesn't change the fact that today, the 'kids' are into the 4cyl imports. That is the 'toy' most kids go for. That was the point I was trying to make.

Actually, my mileage doesn't drop that much when towing. I get about 8-9 mpg when hauling the trailer. But it's just the cost of doing business. In order to do what I do, that's what it takes. Same for the 'jerk' suburbanite that has the huge SUV. Many of them have big families, and/or boats, or trailers they use for vacations, work, etc, etc, etc. It's cheaper for them to own the SUV and use that all the time than it is to own multiple vehicles for multiple purposes. Again, apples to oranges when talking about stuff like this. I wish people would realize that before making rash judgements about how folks in the US live, work, drive, whatever, relative to this topic.

SR! You make sense, Dude! I agree with you 110%

[lanikai]

'Nor should it be, assuming you understand how the US works relative to it's states autonomy. The basic point was that you can't directly compare Europe's gas prices, public transportation or automotive trends to the US. It's apples to oranges for MANY reasons. My drive from Pittsburgh to WV or KY is 400+ miles. From 75 miles outside Pittsburgh, to Charleston WV, there is NOTHING but open road and country. Sorry, there is no public transportation for that, other than booking a flight. Even when I worked in Pittsburgh, public transportation from my home to the city was spotty at best. Not because of poor planning, but because of the distance! People seem to forget that the US isn't just NYC and LA (or the tiny Hawaiian islands.) There's a whole helluva lot in between that can't be 'fixed' with a bus, or a small engined car.

The present day Corvette has absolutely nothing in common with a true Muscle Car, 'nor does the Mustang (other than the name and number of cylinders). Muscle cars were big block, big inch, gas guzzling beasts. They made power with cubic inches. The current day V8 American performance cars (of which, there are what, three or four?) are excellent on fuel considering the output and certainly when compared to a real Muscle Car. But even that doesn't change the fact that today, the 'kids' are into the 4cyl imports. That is the 'toy' most kids go for. That was the point I was trying to make.

Actually, my mileage doesn't drop that much when towing. I get about 8-9 mpg when hauling the trailer. But it's just the cost of doing business. In order to do what I do, that's what it takes. Same for the 'jerk' suburbanite that has the huge SUV. Many of them have big families, and/or boats, or trailers they use for vacations, work, etc, etc, etc. It's cheaper for them to own the SUV and use that all the time than it is to own multiple vehicles for multiple purposes. Again, apples to oranges when talking about stuff like this. I wish people would realize that before making rash judgements about how folks in the US live, work, drive, whatever, relative to this topic.

Point taken..I misunderstood.. thought you were saying the whole US is regulated ..by the Feds.

and yes I agree you cannot compare Europe and the USA in the same breathe.. there are a lot of differences which make a huge difference.. from health care to housing...

But the talk for me is not just Gasoline and cars.. we ..on this "tiny island' depend on container ships for everything.. where on the mainland alot of items are trucked in .. ours "cost" much more once they hit the shelves .. the cost of living is higher and the pay curve all the way up to the proffesional level is less.. that is what we call "the price of paradise"

so let me clear up that we are not "complaining" because the locals that moved away have found the ultimate solution to Hawaii's economy ..

we have geothermal research going on .. alternative fuel supplies .. in which a researcher has found as was recognized for his findings in an alternative fuel... we have local companies who have developed the electric/gas hybrid... that would get over 100 mpg ..

so what .. as long as the Big Corporations block it's progress.. we are still stuck on Petrol ... everything from apples to oranges .. goes up daily with the price of oil..

So yes .. I agree it's not about cars or public trans at all ... but that's the first thing people think of when they think of America.. because we have been the glutons of fuel ..

[JAMZ]

In reading some of the replies on the string some tend to think this might be a good thing, the ever rising oil prices. Let me first qualify my opinion. I am an Oil and Natural Gas trader that understands the ins and outs of the politics of the business. Relatively speaking, we are still on par with the price of gas in relation to oil from the 70's when the embargo had the US in a gas frenzy. Given inflation and the rest of the economic mumbo jumbo I'll spare you with, the price of gas at the pump is exactly where it should be. The problem is the crap economy that happened to coincide with the last two years of the largest "shell game" imaginable.

The Oil industry is rigged my friends. It's a racket that makes the drug cartels look like small time chumps. And quite frankly they are. Does anyone know what Bush paid in taxes in 06? How about Chaney? $400 million and $600 million respectively!! Yeah in TAXES!!

The problem is not supply. That's what the news and OPEC and the respective governments tell you to justify the pricing over $100 a barrel. The fact of the matter is that there is plenty of supply and as of the latest reports, Brazil could possibly be sitting on the worlds largest supply if geologist are correct (but of course it will come at a huge expense because of eighty% of the terrain in Brazil is rain forrest which is hugely significant in the balance of world homeostasis). The problem is more a demand issue. The refineries can't process and ship it quick enough. They just can't handle the output. So common sense would say why not build more refineries?

The oil companies are posting record profits right? Refineries cost somewhere between $200 to $500 million. Chump change right? Even updating or expanding existing refineries would help right? Well think about it. . .if it ain't broke don't fix it. And I'm speaking about the system. It's this bottle neck that squeezed prices above $100 a barrel. Frankly, in my opinion the oil companies never thought it would get over $115 a barrel. It has been a run away train. The securities market is crap, the dollar is tanking, and the housing market fell out of bed so what's left to invest in and put money into for the banks and institutions? The tangibles... energy, precious metals, grains (softs), etc.

These levels of pricing in the energy markets are purely speculatively driven in my opinion. There are many factors I'm basing that on having to do with technical aspects of the energies world and how it trades, but mostly because of new injection of money that never traded energies or even commodities at all.

There are A LOT of people getting rich in this time boys. the classes are definitely diverging and the rich are blowing past super rich on their way to the next level unimaginable to the rest of the average or even a six figure professional.

It doesn't look like it's going to get any better economy wise either. I mean hell, GM and Ford are on life support. One is definitely going out of business. It's a matter of time and the survivor will get pulled out by the crooked politicians.

So in short, live your life as happy as can possibly be. Maybe move to some small island or something LOL because the shell game isn't going to stop and the average joe is the one going to pay. As far as gas prices are concerned it's basically right on par with where it should be. Are we spoiled? Yes, but it also hurts us because we are hurting all the way around. Housing, retail, inflation, recession. . .

[lanikai]

Thank you JZ..

from the inside ... now we know we are not lunatics spouting off..

[JAMZ]

Thank you JZ..

from the inside ... now we know we are not lunatics spouting off..

People are just waking up and smelling the over priced coffee and just beginning to question. . .Great post!!!! I definitely could go on and on.

[archibald]

Exactly right: I just drove accross PA on Highway 90 on the Sunday after the 4th of July and you would have thought it was 2AM the night after a blizzard.

I read an interesting article @ the Dr's office the other day in, I think, the Nation that utterly detroyed the 2 main arguments of the Oil Companies' PR shops: 1)That rising gas prices reflect higher oil and feul transportation costs and any extra profits are the result from marking up more expensive raw materials by the same percentage; and 2, that companies have a duty to their shareholders to make as much money as possible. From the oil companies' own finacial statements it's clear that the % markups jump every time the price of oil rises and it would be mathematically impossible to account for the profit they're making if the PR BS were true. I guess it's debatable based on your political views, but the article made a pretty good case that the extra profits amount to a redistribution of wealth much more drastic and much more "anti-business" than any potential tax increase conservatives could dream up to scare America with. High gas prices take money not only out of the pockets of the poor and middle class, but also out of the coffers of almost every non-oil related business in America and concentrate it in the bank accounts of the fraction of a percent of the population who make money from oil. Capitalism? Sure is. But income redistribution is income redistribution. You're either for it or not.

If the government taxed $3.27 a gallon gas to 4.15 a gallon, say, in order to rebuild the country's crumbling infrastructure, free market conservatives would be up in arms. "Ruining the economy!!" "Taking food of the tables of hard working americans and senior citizens!!" "running small businesses into chapter 11!!" I guess as long as Exxon, and not the evil gubment doing everything true conservatives despise, it's AOK.

I don't know about the rest of the planet (USA) anyway... but In Hawaii we have seen our lives changed literally .. in what seems like overnight

the week that the price of gas really started to escalate .. everything that had a price on it followed suit .. no other way into the islands except by container or air..

everything in the markets jumped 50 cents to a dollar .. there was no gradual increase here...so we adjust as alway's ..

But what was really surreal was this weekend .. the costal and shoreline roads along Waimanalo ... going around to Makapuu (where Sea Life Park is) is usually crowded with vehicles out for the weekend beach cruise ... this is the first time that on a Saturday the roads were empty.... I called a buddy on the other side of the island from where I was and he said the same was previlant on the leeward side... no one can afford to burn the high priced fuel anymore..

Now granted .. Americans are the most glutenous gas guzzlers on the planet..... but that was our lifestyle...."Crusin"...

It seems that those day's are a thing of the past.. and may very well be refferred to as "back in the day" when talking about a ride around the island...

[Dani]

'Nor should it be, assuming you understand how the US works relative to it's states autonomy. The basic point was that you can't directly compare Europe's gas prices, public transportation or automotive trends to the US. It's apples to oranges for MANY reasons. My drive from Pittsburgh to WV or KY is 400+ miles. From 75 miles outside Pittsburgh, to Charleston WV, there is NOTHING but open road and country. Sorry, there is no public transportation for that, other than booking a flight. Even when I worked in Pittsburgh, public transportation from my home to the city was spotty at best. Not because of poor planning, but because of the distance! People seem to forget that the US isn't just NYC and LA (or the tiny Hawaiian islands.) There's a whole helluva lot in between that can't be 'fixed' with a bus, or a small engined car.

The present day Corvette has absolutely nothing in common with a true Muscle Car, 'nor does the Mustang (other than the name and number of cylinders). Muscle cars were big block, big inch, gas guzzling beasts. They made power with cubic inches. The current day V8 American performance cars (of which, there are what, three or four?) are excellent on fuel considering the output and certainly when compared to a real Muscle Car. But even that doesn't change the fact that today, the 'kids' are into the 4cyl imports. That is the 'toy' most kids go for. That was the point I was trying to make.

Actually, my mileage doesn't drop that much when towing. I get about 8-9 mpg when hauling the trailer. But it's just the cost of doing business. In order to do what I do, that's what it takes. Same for the 'jerk' suburbanite that has the huge SUV. Many of them have big families, and/or boats, or trailers they use for vacations, work, etc, etc, etc. It's cheaper for them to own the SUV and use that all the time than it is to own multiple vehicles for multiple purposes. Again, apples to oranges when talking about stuff like this. I wish people would realize that before making rash judgements about how folks in the US live, work, drive, whatever, relative to this topic.

So you need a V10 to get you 440miles each day?

The US is not that diffrent then europe not all of europe is small and compact.

And pleas public transport is overrated in europe belive me delays whit 20-30min or hours are likely to happen many many times a week on all sides bus,train,subway so getting late to work 2-3times a week is a recipe to get fierd.

I dont see a V10 as a bad thing to be honest, you can brew your own gas etanol that will not only give more horsepower but also 100%green and clean But i do think the dea or ATF!? will ask you about somethings.

[lanikai]

People are just waking up and smelling the over priced coffee and just beginning to question. . .Great post!!!! I definitely could go on and on.

please do continue..so it's not all conjecture by us that really are just reading into the gullability (is that a word. it is now ) of what our government "wants" us to believe..

add: .. it is being worked on to turn the cane feilds to ethanol production.. but that won't stop the powers that be..

Dani some of us "need" to have the big engines for our businesses..

[fakemaster]

A lot of things are changing for sure. But it was apparent that all this was coing nearly five years ago. I predicted $4 gasoline in 2003.

[JAMZ]

A lot of things are changing for sure. But it was apparent that all this was coing nearly five years ago. I predicted $4 gasoline in 2003.

Did you get long Crude Oil? I hope so. . .

[jot9011]

Wow!!! What a great thread. I agree with JZ completely. According to a major oil Co. CEO who said "$100 oil isn't justified by the physical demand in the market - it has to be speculation on the futures market that is fueling these high prices.

Oil and gasoline markets contain loopholes for traders, and the markets are inadequately policed by regulators under current law. As a result, the current market prices are greatly influence by the speculators well beyond the simple laws of supply and demand.

Of course the Oil companies would love to subvert the blame in this way. They still play a major part in this of course.

Whats even crazier, despite their record profits, the government continues to provide to oil and gas companies with tax giveaways and subsidies of $7.5 billion

[phaedo]

In Oz many are getting their cars converted from petroluem to gas, although the major oil companies keep forcing the gas prices to rise there will always be a big saving once you have converted.

Is there a reason why this is not an option worldwide?

In fact the Aussie government has a subsidy in place to pay for the bulk of conversions.

Ken

Actually I heard from someone that the subsidy is about to cease as the govt had run out of money to do it. Not sure if it is true or just a rumour though.

What people fail to think about I find is inflation. Jamz mentioned it, we are paying similar to what the price was in the 70's. Everything goes up in price, yet all people think about is the price of petrol not being what it was 10 years ago, seeming to think it should still be the same price. When I was working at a servo, had one old guy go on about the rip off prices, saying how expensive it was, and he remembered back in the old days he could fill up a car for sixpence or whatever he might have said. But all I said to him was to enquire how much a litre of milk was back then, and how much wages were. And then I pointed out that the price of petrol was still cheaper than milk. I think he actually realised that it wasn't too bad a price in the scheme of things.

[strattakan]

Hehehe.

Look at my country.

A 45 square meter apartment is about 220k

[strattakan]

Oh, just to make an idea, a new Honda Civic EX version costs 43,200 USD here in S

[rolex001]

I enjoy the days as my loved Finance Minister and the oil refining monopole (and of course speculators) are having a good time on all of us. Huge taxation of gas, taxing the tax with 20% - that's how it goes. State tax income has raised by 8% (solely from gas taxation) since the gas prices were on the rise that fast (last couple of months) still the state isn't able to spend the cash somewhere useful, state still has debts en masse. They played the game for a while now here with 50% price increase on gas - and it's not going to be over anytime soon.

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

I predict that within the next 15 years we will have a near complete failure of the world economic system because of how it is manipulated. I fear that my children will be finishing their lives in total world chaos, famine, an environment that has totally been destroyed and without energy. Within the next 100 years the world will return to near caveman conditions. Mark my words... we are seeing the beginning of the end!

[strattakan]

I predict that within the next 15 years we will have a near complete failure of the world economic system because of how it is manipulated. I fear that my children will be finishing their lives in total world chaos, famine, an environment that has totally been destroyed and without energy. Within the next 100 years the world will return to near caveman conditions. Mark my words... we are seeing the beginning of the end!

Better make my Rep collection full before that!

[JAMZ]

Maybe, but IF this gonna be correct, this supply is deep under the sea. And BTW, the rain forest, mostly Amazonas, is in the north of the country, and this supply, is in the southeast. Also u have to remember that the Petrobras isn

[JAMZ]

I predict that within the next 15 years we will have a near complete failure of the world economic system because of how it is manipulated. I fear that my children will be finishing their lives in total world chaos, famine, an environment that has totally been destroyed and without energy. Within the next 100 years the world will return to near caveman conditions. Mark my words... we are seeing the beginning of the end!

Care to donate any of your collection since you won't be needing them? LOL

That was a ray of sunshine. . .LOL

[baglc1]

Guys, you really should see the European prices before you complain.

They should, i've just paid

[AllergyDoc]

I think this time will go down as one of the biggest transfers of wealth in U.S. history.

[rodwc]

Just read the past 4 pages, and am surprised that no-one has mentioned the CARBON EMMISSION TRADING SCHEME.

What do you think prices in general are going to do when every country has to pay or trade for the carbon they burn.

Kevin Rudd is in Japan now signing our lives away.

Estimates so far here in Oz. are 30 BILLION $ per year ( This is just Oz. )

BHP Billeton has just re-negotiated the price of iron ore to the Chinese for a 95 % price rise .