Why RWI has removed Josh and Andrew as dealers

373 posts in this topic

ID: 1   Posted (edited)

As some of you may know, RWI (the Dark Side) has just taken action against the two largest dealers on any of the forums, Josh and Andrew. Although this issue has gotten little to no attention over here, I believe this is something that has an impact on every forum member. The nutshell version is that Andrew was caught, red-handed, trying to intimidate another dealer into raising prices of certain reps. When the dealer refused, Andrew responded by saying that he would make sure the factory did not supply any more reps to this dealer. Andrew and Josh were given an opportunity to respond, and refused to do so. As a result, we were forced to remove their sections.

What follows is the message that was posted on RWI concerning our reasons:

Due to evidence brought forth to the staff of RWI, both Josh and Andrew's sections on RWI have been closed. The discussions and polling on these matters may be seen in the following threads.

http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic...f=1&t=41999

http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic...p;sk=t&sd=a

http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic...f=1&t=42036

http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic...ilit=white+lies

Andrew has not seen fit to respond or provide any answers on the subject other than to deflect the issue and claim that dealers are conspiring against him. Josh and Andrew have always been viewed as one and the same due to their close connection and business partnership. Thus, we have made the decision to sanction both of them at this time.

We have not made this decision easily as these two dealers have been mainstays of RWI. This decision was made due to a concentrated effort by these two dealers to obstruct other valued dealers and, ultimately, you the member from obtaining replicas at a fair price. They have sought to control the market and intimidate other dealers into raising prices.

Others (whether they be members here or on the other forums) will laugh and think that we are silly... They will say that we are shouting at the rain and that we can't change anything... Maybe they are right but our purpose in this world is to bring you, the member, the safest and best replica hobby experience we can...

You may not agree with our decision, but please respect that we have made this decision with your best interests at heart.

We hope that the closing of their sections is not permanent and that they will respond to us and the topics at hand can be mediated. Until then, their sections will remain closed with this message there.

Edited by seanf

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ID: 2   Posted

yeah, we blew through those issues here it seems like almost 2 yrs ago - see the cartel threads -

buyers beware

its a shame, but the artificial increases in pricing are definatly the WORST thing thats happened to our hobby since asshats

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ID: 3   Posted

This is the only way to fight price fixing. Well done.

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ID: 4   Posted

I can assure you all that this decision is NOT one that we took lightly. Far from it. But Jandrew put us in a position where we had a choice. We could act in favor of Jandrew, or we could act in the interests of the forum membership. We couldn't do both.

We had clear evidence (in the form of screen captures and conversations with Hont) that Andrew had personally reached out to a fellow RWI dealer solely in an attempt to jack up rep prices. That is something that affects every single person on every single rep board. And the worst part is that this is not the first time this has happened-- it was the third.

Again, I wish we could have seen another way here, and I wish Jandrew would have worked with us to resolve this. And I'm hopeful, in time, Jandrew will change their business practices. If that happens, we'll consider opening the door to them again. But allowing Jandrew to continue to be an "endorsed" or "trusted" dealer while knowing that they were doing all they could to artificially and unfairly increase prices and squeeze out other dealers goes directly against the core philospophy of RWI.

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ID: 5   Posted

Interesting. I just posted this same thread over on RepGeek. But don't bother looking for the thread on RG. It lasted less than two minutes before it was removed by admin. Unbelievable.

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ID: 6   Posted

Good riddance! I've said it before and I will say it again: Andrew, the sleazy watch guy.

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ID: 7   Posted

Well done Sean...regardless of motivation, etc it shows that people are willing to take a stand against predatory dealers...

As for RepGeek...I'm learning to like it less and less... I'll be joining RWI this evening simply because you've made a superb showing...

I will still consider RWG2 my "home base" but I'm glad to see many members here are also there...so I should be in good company :)

Edit to add: I'm already a member haha...well, I'll be visiting then!!

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ID: 8   Posted

In the last 2 years...reps have gone thru the roof

regarding price increases...

Yes, I feel our dealers are making too much on

each watch now.. ;)

Glad to see then having problems! ;)

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ID: 9   Posted

look, I ALWAYS said this. I said it from the beginning that Josh is a crook. Way before he partnered up with Andrew, that guy has always been a crook. He once tried to tell me stories about a watch to justify 700$ for a simple 111G replica (almost 4 years ago).

and you thought I was silly. I was even banned once on your board over this issue.

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ID: 10   Posted

Thanks for the words of support, guys. It's much appreciated after a very, very difficult decision. I don't know if it will make any practical difference to Jandrew's bottom line, but that's not really the point. The issue for us was whether we, as the RWI admin team, could continue to endorse Jandrew and direct people to them after this stuff came to light. And since this was the third time that Jandrew had intimidated a dealer (Ruby and one other), it appeared that this was going to happen again in the future unless we took some action.

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ID: 11   Posted

yeah, we blew through those issues here it seems like almost 2 yrs ago - see the cartel threads -

buyers beware

its a shame, but the artificial increases in pricing are definatly the WORST thing thats happened to our hobby since asshats

Do I really need to ask again... What is an asshat? ;)

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ID: 12   Posted

Do I really need to ask again... What is an asshat? ;)

asshat.jpg

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ID: 13   Posted

asshat.jpg

Nice

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ID: 14   Posted

I'm shocked and disappointed that Joshua would do this. I have stood up for him in the past. Of course, those of us who are worried about price and quality already switched to more reputable dealers years ago... but still. I always thought Josh was an overall decent guy, since he was the first one to sell me a rep which I still own and was always very nice to me. Threatening, harassing, and bullying other individuals is wrong and especially very cruel.

It's a sad day for our little hobby.

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ID: 15   Posted (edited)

I think this could have been avoided with an addition to this forum allowing reviews of dealers to be made without others attacking the reviewer. For example, the review thread could be locked, allowing only the dealer, administrators, and reviewer to respond. There is a natural tendency for members to defend dealers that they use from bad reviews, and in the process, skew reviews or silence those that would post negative reviews.

Edited by client9

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ID: 16   Posted

Hmmm......I am of 2 minds on this. On the 1 hand, the sometimes questionable business practices employed by the Josh/Andrew have been well known to many members for a long time. Some have simply stopped dealing with this vendor altogether & with good reason. Price-fixing & strong-arm tactics have no place on a site that provides collectors with a gene pool consisting of 13,000+ always-hungry buyers.

On the other hand, I have found the Josh/Andrew to be 1 of the best collectors in terms of prompt responses & equally prompt shipments. The 1 time I had a defective watch, an exchange was handled quickly, efficiently & the replacement arrived in very short order. I would also credit the Josh/Andrew with providing members (at least those who have been around for awhile) with reasonable buying advice. More than once, I have been urged not to buy a particular rep from this collector because the collector felt I would not be happy with it, even though it would cause him to lose a sale.

It is too bad that the Josh/Andrew's silence left the RWI staff no other choice than to do what they did. Hopefully, the Josh/Andrew will be able to address their concerns in a timely & mutually agreeable manner. I think it would be a shame to lose this collector.

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ID: 17   Posted

Interesting. I just posted this same thread over on RepGeek. But don't bother looking for the thread on RG. It lasted less than two minutes before it was removed by admin. Unbelievable.

RG yeah that is a another story.

But trust me in about one page this thread will be all the dummies trying to support their friendly dealers Josh&Andrew and your cause will be lost here due to this dummies stupid ideas on what is correct and that this price give better reps blabla.

Some people don't get it that this guys are keeping up a price that is not normal..The HBB scam is one way to look at it..I bought a full ceramic for 900$ something, and still they sell one for 1100$ whit only a bezel in ceramic and asian 7750..

Yeah yeah.

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ID: 18   Posted

OK lets see. Cartel...uhhh,,,that might imply some sort of colusion.

Price fix.. Control issues, etc.

Not suprising, really. Is it?

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ID: 19   Posted

Nice

So that's an "asshat"... looks like it hurts... :rolleyes:

And thanks for the words of support guys...

Higgy B)

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ID: 20   Posted

Do I really need to ask again... What is an asshat? ;)

its an ongoing joke from RWG 1

157271-13314.jpg

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ID: 21   Posted

I'm sure it was a very difficult decision and that it was not taken lightly. It's unfortunate, but I understand why you decided to take them off of the trusted dealers list and admire you for standing up for what you believe is right (and in the best interests of the members).

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ID: 22   Posted

As Corgi said, i hope that we will not loose Josh & Andrew. My first reps were from those guys, and i always have a really good service with them. But the fact is that if they are trying to control the market by intimidate others dealers, we musn't accept it.

Hope it will have a good end .....

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ID: 23   Posted (edited)

Hmmm......I am of 2 minds on this. On the 1 hand, the sometimes questionable business practices employed by the Josh/Andrew have been well known to many members for a long time. Some have simply stopped dealing with this vendor altogether & with good reason. Price-fixing & strong-arm tactics have no place on a site that provides collectors with a gene pool consisting of 13,000+ always-hungry buyers.

On the other hand, I have fond the Josh/Andrew to be 1 of the best collectors in terms of prompt responses & equally prompt shipments. The 1 time I had a defective watch, an exchange was handled quickly, efficiently & the replacement arrived in very short order. I would also credit the Josh/Andrew with providing members (at least those who have been around for awhile) with reasonable buying advice. More than once, I have been urged not to buy a particular rep from this collector because the collector felt I would not be happy with it, even though it would cause him to lose a sale.

It is too bad that the Josh/Andrew's silence left the RWI staff no other choice than to do what they did. Hopefully, the Josh/Andrew will be able to address their concerns in a timely & mutually agreeable manner. I think it would be a shame to lose this collector.

I agree With you Andrew And Josh is one of the most honest dealer when they deal with they customer, not only they do prompt reply, and they take all my question/problem and answer it in a proper manner.

I don't care how Josh and Andrew run his business and how unethical they are to their small competition, As long as Andrew/Josh always do the right thing to the customer, I'm always gonna support them and keep on buying from them, There are no BUSINESS IN THIS WORLD THAT IS ETHICAL. And especially in CHINA, I'm very surprise that there is an honest Seller in China that selling product in the internet, regarding that they are so much scammer in china.

And before judging people ethic look at yourself in the mirror! No one in this world is PERFECT

Edited by windyzz

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ID: 24   Posted

Out of all the 15 or so reps i've bought - only 1 (GMTII-C) was from a dealer - Josh. I found him to be great to deal with, friendly and accurate in his comments which is all I ask for. Im not looking for a 'friend'. Andrew on the other hand - well this doesn't surprise me at all. Every conversation i've had with him has taken me from being a potential customer to a hater in a matter of seconds. He's a smart ass and is obviously well aware of the control they hold however trying to price fix is just another league even for him. I applaud the response of RWI and while I understand Josh and Andrew share the same factory and connections - their attitudes are completely different. I will continue to buy from Josh - that is if I buy an unmodded watch.. lol which is rare.

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ID: 25   Posted

With these recent developments, I think Josh and Andrew will work harder to maintain customer loyalty. We have all heard of these allegations before, so it is not a surprise to me. As long as they keep treating me right, I will still support them. One of my best friends own a gas station and gets a call all the time to raise the price. It is absolutely true that prices go up just before a long weekend. Even though he owns the gas station, he has no choice but to comply. His friend owns a competitive gas station right beside his. He also gets the same call almost at the exact same moment. So where is true competition? Angus vs Josh and Andrew is a developing war. We can already see pricing adjustments on the new reps that have emerged. I like this competition and hope that we get some decent deals.

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