t Posted September 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Well, if you would also produce correct tubes that fit these crowns and can be fitted in our rep cases, I would sure get them for all my PAMs that take this kind of crown. Like someone said, spring loaded mechanism really makes difference, and three gaskets on crown would also be very nice to have. It is really not such a big deal to replace a tube once you take your watch apart. regards i don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendofSpeed Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Well... I hope to someday see a T48 crown.... it'd be nice to have... As for the Turkey crowns... I believe they are gen/gen-like.... picture if you will, in 97-98 time-frame a subcontractor is called on to make a spring loaded crown... the blueprint is handed over and a design is made and executed.... but there are 4 too many teeth.... so they are rejected... after all, it is sometimes hard to remember how many teeth the crown is to have during the manufacturing process right? If the Turkey crowns were truly gen, they would come in blister packs as other Panerai parts do... but that they don't doesn't mean they weren't made to be put on a gen.... just that they failed QC in terms of teeth.... Who knows, maybe some company out there lost the contract because of the # of teeth and then dumped them to a watch repair guy as, who is ever going to tell between 52 and 48 teeth.... the watch repair guy can charge full rip for the crown and pocket the profit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted September 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Well... I hope to someday see a T48 crown.... it'd be nice to have... As for the Turkey crowns... I believe they are gen/gen-like.... picture if you will, in 97-98 time-frame a subcontractor is called on to make a spring loaded crown... the blueprint is handed over and a design is made and executed.... but there are 4 too many teeth.... so they are rejected... after all, it is sometimes hard to remember how many teeth the crown is to have during the manufacturing process right? If the Turkey crowns were truly gen, they would come in blister packs as other Panerai parts do... but that they don't doesn't mean they weren't made to be put on a gen.... just that they failed QC in terms of teeth.... Who knows, maybe some company out there lost the contract because of the # of teeth and then dumped them to a watch repair guy as, who is ever going to tell between 52 and 48 teeth.... the watch repair guy can charge full rip for the crown and pocket the profit.... i don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendofSpeed Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 look at all the differences here... http://www.ne.jp/asahi/panerai/carpediem/h...STRICINDEX.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted September 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 look at all the differences here... http://www.ne.jp/asahi/panerai/carpediem/h...STRICINDEX.html it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Yes, on those pcitures it looks like there are not the same amount of teeth on all crowns.. Just compre the TI in the middel to the one left to it.. different sizes, different amount of teeth.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 And those watches are only hand winds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Different crown thickness, yes. But different number of teeth, very unsure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Just count the teeth that are visible.. shouldn't be such a big difference, as it is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 My eyes are going cross... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykeem Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 In regard to the link LegendofSpeed provided in this thread, I see two different crowns in the 8 photos (two of the photos are of identical watches the PAM009A). 201A, 036, and 001A have the same crown thickness and teeth. This looks like the 48 teeth crown to me. The pre-A 002, pre-A 009 pre-A 001, 002A, and 009A have the same crown. These look like the 52 teeth crown to me. In my eyes I think they are definitely two different crown manufacturers being told to produce them during Officine Panerai, and during the first 2 years where Richmont first took over. Here is an example of gen 5218-203A where there were roughly 200 made. If you look at the first two photos and the last photo, you can clearly tell that even with a single model pre-V there are two different crown on this watch. I can pull up some photos of pre-V 5218-207A where you can see this same difference in crown. I cannot tell you exactly how many teeth are on there but there is a clear difference in the number of teeth on there. But from what people are saying are on their more recent manual wind PAMs. It should be fairly easy to deduce that the 52 teeth crown manufacturer was cut by Richmont. If you want try and determine the validity of the crowns being gen or not thats up to you guys to determine. I see these 52 teeth manual Ti and 52 teeth auto PVD/SS as being gen until proven otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 So the 52 teeth belong to Pre-Vendome Panerais? Well, that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 All in all, this is revealing as an exciting research. I wonder whether 'risti even have a clue about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykeem Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I dont think the 52 teeth crowns can be limited to just the pre-V models. There are no pre-V's that are automatic as far as I can recall. My assumption is that these crowns bled through the model range until the A series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Again without anyone holding any crown on his hand on a genuine watch, you assume from photos that you can see 4 teeth difference.. I counted my oem crown and even by counting i sometimes did a mistake of 2-3 teeth. So please unless you have proof (and by proof i mean a watch that has a 52 teeth crown ON IT and you can COUNT IT - not by photos) that Panerai produced 52 teeth crowns, the only OEM crown is the 48 teeth that we have counted on more than 10 watches on this forum (especially Jay with his older models). At the end it makes me think that all of you 52 teeth owners must convince yourselves they are genuine for the price you paid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 No problem. You don't have to be convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 No problem. You don't have to be convinced. You don't understand that it is not me who should be convinced but 't' here wants us to tell him 100000000% sure what is the case with Pam crowns... Something similar happened in the other thread and someone said the gen had 60 teeth...and everyone else agreed. 700 crowns after (amazingly made but inaccurate), it is not funny or a game speculating in this thread especially with t's pocket... Facts are facts... and facts say that Pams have 48 teeth and unless you have a watch that has 52 teeth on it and you can count them yourself for me they are at least questionable whatever their construction is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted September 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 thanks V it were nice if we had discuss this earlier it is funny that we all have not noticed the 48-52-60 teeths issue... but the next run will be definitively with 48 teeths... but with a higher price as punishment for our silly mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 ha... the punisher is back.... rolli thanks V it were nice if we had discuss this earlier it is funny that we all have not noticed the 48-52-60 teeths issue... but the next run will be definitively with 48 teeths... but with a higher price as punishment for our silly mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 In regard to the link LegendofSpeed provided in this thread, I see two different crowns in the 8 photos (two of the photos are of identical watches the PAM009A). 201A, 036, and 001A have the same crown thickness and teeth. This looks like the 48 teeth crown to me. The pre-A 002, pre-A 009 pre-A 001, 002A, and 009A have the same crown. These look like the 52 teeth crown to me. In my eyes I think they are definitely two different crown manufacturers being told to produce them during Officine Panerai, and during the first 2 years where Richmont first took over. Here is an example of gen 5218-203A where there were roughly 200 made. If you look at the first two photos and the last photo, you can clearly tell that even with a single model pre-V there are two different crown on this watch. I can pull up some photos of pre-V 5218-207A where you can see this same difference in crown. I cannot tell you exactly how many teeth are on there but there is a clear difference in the number of teeth on there. But from what people are saying are on their more recent manual wind PAMs. It should be fairly easy to deduce that the 52 teeth crown manufacturer was cut by Richmont. If you want try and determine the validity of the crowns being gen or not thats up to you guys to determine. I see these 52 teeth manual Ti and 52 teeth auto PVD/SS as being gen until proven otherwise. I have a large collection of photos of genuine watches, mostly collected from the 'Risti forum over the past few years. This collection includes a large number of 5218/201A pics and it is clear that at least 2 different crowns were used. There is a distinct variation in width, with the majority having a crown that appears to be thicker than the later Vendome models. However a significant minority have a narrower crown similar to the preA to current series of watches. Whether these variations had a different number of teeth I have no idea but it is possible. I have been unable to establish whether the narrower crowns were fitted to watches with lower or higher numbers in the series or even if this is any indication of production dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 At the end it makes me think that all of you 52 teeth owners must convince yourselves they are genuine for the price you paid... 60-70$ nhha for the quality i don't need to convince myself about anything...... those that paid 200 i em sure will.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 You don't understand that it is not me who should be convinced but 't' here wants us to tell him 100000000% sure what is the case with Pam crowns... Something similar happened in the other thread and someone said the gen had 60 teeth...and everyone else agreed. 700 crowns after (amazingly made but inaccurate), it is not funny or a game speculating in this thread especially with t's pocket... Facts are facts... and facts say that Pams have 48 teeth and unless you have a watch that has 52 teeth on it and you can count them yourself for me they are at least questionable whatever their construction is. What facts are we talking about? The 10 gens that are almost all of more recent production dates, that the guys have counted the teeth on? That doesn't make it true that the 48t crowns are the only gen ones just as some pictures that show clearly that the crowns have different amounts of teeth on them aren't enough to convince. But to say 'as long as no one holds a pam with 48+ teeth in his hands that I know, they are fake to me' is imo nonsense.. And no, I don't try to convince myself that the 52t crowns are gen because I haven't bought one. If there should be another production run from T they should of course have 48 teeth, since the majority probably has 48. That doesn't have anything to do with it, that crowns with 52 teeth are or are not gen. They might be. What I don't understand is not that T wants to be sure.. what I don't understand is how you are judging about wether or not something is gen because you haven't had it in your hand.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Well, I checked my 2002 to 2006 OP catalogues, and all the luminors seem to have 12 teeth in 1/4 circle, both handwind and auto, either with or without complications (GMT, PR). I cannot assure all they are not 13 teeth, but I am pretty positive they are not 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 What facts are we talking about? The 10 gens that are almost all of more recent production dates, that the guys have counted the teeth on? Read the quotes from UJ and you see you are wrong about that... 1. ...I've taken a pic that I hope may help. Top is an auto, bottom left is an A (series) HW, bottom right is a B (series) HW. BTW, I really don't care how many teeth they have so long as it fits properly. 2. ...Removed a CG from an A and also got 48... and conratulations being able to see from photos how many teeth exactly the crowns have. Because me the retarded I couldn't count properly the one i have in front of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 v.... it's very simple to see and to count it from the picture. otherwise you can zoom it with photoshop. the visible part of the crown has 19 teeth. that means 19 on top and 19 down = 38, the teeth behind the crown-guard left and right are not so much. that means this crown has 48 teeth. rolli and conratulations being able to see from photos how many teeth exactly the crowns have. Because me the retarded I couldn't count properly the one i have in front of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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