chefcook Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Hey guys, I just wanted to inform you about my latest acquisition, a WM9 Submariner 16610. I ordered it to have a Submariner with Z serial and smooth rehaut. But what I got was a M with engraved rehaut - in short exactly the watch precious time sells for far less money. So be aware, that the WM9 is not a way of avoiding the rehaut engraving anymore. For some reason I doubt that PTs Sub or the WM9 is the same as the Euromariner. I sold my Euromariner here in the forums, but due to some work it was still on my desk yesterday and I had the possibility of comparing them side by side. The case has some differences: The WM9 has the nice polished bevel on the lugs, which have a different profile as well. It seems, that WM9 and Euromariner replicate two different cases - yes, the cases on 16610 have varied over the years! There are two different lug shapes! This is something that was discussed on many gen rolex forums before, so I've attached some pics of the gens showing the differences. Look how the sides of the LV and the black sub are different: The LV has a smaller radius on the lugs when viewed from the side. Both cases were available as LV or as black sub and there isn't any consistency in time or serial or lugholes that helps. Rolex. My AD had both cases on his desk, both new, both M serials, both black subs. But with visible differences. The WM9 has the fatter case as shown on the LV in the attachment. The Euromariner I received has the flatter side profile! Other differences are the caseback and the crystal retaining ring: Montres Rolex S.A. on the WM9, Monarch Polfy on the Euromariner. But more important is, that the bezel assembly of the WM9 really is gen like. The gasket has the same style like the gen with just one gasket while the Euromariner has an additional groove in the retaining ring and uses two gaskets. I'll make some pics of the actual watches this evening, then I'll check the serials, too. Regards, M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Interesting post . Let's see what other experts have to say about this. Carpe Diem Cats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im2 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Hey guys, I just wanted to inform you about my latest acquisition, a WM9 Submariner 16610. I ordered it to have a Submariner with Z serial and smooth rehaut. But what I got was a M with engraved rehaut - in short exactly the watch precious time sells for far less money. So be aware, that the WM9 is not a way of avoiding the rehaut engraving anymore. For some reason I doubt that PTs Sub or the WM9 is the same as the Euromariner. I sold my Euromariner here in the forums, but due to some work it was still on my desk yesterday and I had the possibility of comparing them side by side. The case has some differences: The WM9 has the nice polished bevel on the lugs, which have a different profile as well. It seems, that WM9 and Euromariner replicate two different cases - yes, the cases on 16610 have varied over the years! There are two different lug shapes! This is something that was discussed on many gen rolex forums before, so I've attached some pics of the gens showing the differences. Look how the sides of the LV and the black sub are different: The LV has a smaller radius on the lugs when viewed from the side. Both cases were available as LV or as black sub and there isn't any consistency in time or serial or lugholes that helps. Rolex. My AD had both cases on his desk, both new, both M serials, both black subs. But with visible differences. The WM9 has the fatter case as shown on the LV in the attachment. The Euromariner I received has the flatter side profile! Other differences are the caseback and the crystal retaining ring: Montres Rolex S.A. on the WM9, Monarch Polfy on the Euromariner. But more important is, that the bezel assembly of the WM9 really is gen like. The gasket has the same style like the gen with just one gasket while the Euromariner has an additional groove in the retaining ring and uses two gaskets. I'll make some pics of the actual watches this evening, then I'll check the serials, too. Regards, M. Very interesting.... and sad.. That may explain my problem with the bezel-crystal on my Euromariner.. Do u think i could replace the 2 crystal gaskets of euromariner with one gasket gen-like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elprimerozen Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velasco Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Mmm... I received a Z-series last week. But I specifically asked for a 16610 Z-Series (no engraving on rehaut) before ordering. V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) Very interesting.... and sad.. That may explain my problem with the bezel-crystal on my Euromariner.. Do u think i could replace the 2 crystal gaskets of euromariner with one gasket gen-like? a lot of people by the "clarks 295c" aftermarket 1:1 crystal, with one gasket included, for the euromariner. I soon too, will be one of them. Edited October 1, 2008 by highoeyazmuhudee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnaphro Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Before two weeks i got mine,16613,also the same,M serie. I contacted immediately with George and he told me to send it back to USA and he will replace it with z serie,i paid 37 euros shipping cost via EMS for his fault.... Still waiting,this sucks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im2 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 a lot of people by the "clarks 295c" aftermarket 1:1 crystal, with one gasket included, for the euromariner. I soon too, will be one of them. I bought a c-2 ... That is the correct i think... I am waiting for it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahapete Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 i just recieved my, and i order 2005 model but george wrote me that they gonna send me 2007 z model? i dont know these watches so well that i can say what im recieved? so i add few bad pictures if some one know what model is my watch... there is no engravings on rehault, but i would like to have those engravings.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 I guess at this point George may have run out of the 2005 models and he sent you a free upgrade to the 2007- z series ($155 value). At the same time, I would guess that the 2007 z series is running low and the 2008 M series case is next. Maybe he'll update his website. With the 2007 z series, swapping out a gen bezel insert and trimming the cg's would yield a very nice watch for not much extra money. I wonder if the 2836 is a Swiss or the asian copy movement- I've heard that a few of his watches have the copy eta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahapete Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 ok, thanks for info, must get rear open and check, how do i recognize that eta movement, is it swiss or asia? i pay for real swiss eta... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin46 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) taking this one step further i have a sub supreme 2008 on order from PT and he emailed me saying that he has got 20 of the same watch without the engraving as a request from his supplier due to the demand from members of this forum, did i want one instead, i said yes please. so i am now getting the same watch as wm9 was advertising, i think cant wait for it to arrive. Edited October 1, 2008 by colin46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Looking back, I'm glad my modded 2007 Z serial WM9 didn't move from my trade feeler last week Looks like mine will be sticking around for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin46 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Looking back, I'm glad my modded 2007 Z serial WM9 didn't move from my trade feeler last week Looks like mine will be sticking around for a while... thats a great looking watch, i hope the sub from pt looks like that could i ask you what mods you have done, i am thinking of sending mine to jackjo for mods thanks best wishes Colin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Sure. Here's my recipe list of parts that I've fitted... -Genuine crystal ring -Genuine bezel washer -Genuine bezel click -Genuine bezel ring -Genuine insert -Genuine Cyclope 295C -Genuine crown -Old TW Best end links -WM9 outer first link (without the ref no. stamped) -Hollow midlink bracelet links from a noobmariner -WM9 clasp Easy to mod; one of the easiest watches I've ever worked, actually. Additional pics here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin46 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Sure. Here's my recipe list of parts that I've fitted... -Genuine crystal ring -Genuine bezel washer -Genuine bezel click -Genuine bezel ring -Genuine insert -Genuine Cyclope 295C -Genuine crown -Old TW Best end links -WM9 outer first link (without the ref no. stamped) -Hollow midlink bracelet links from a noobmariner -WM9 clasp Easy to mod; one of the easiest watches I've ever worked, actually. Additional pics here... much appreciated thank you could you tell me where you got the genuine bezel / insert etc from best wishes Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 I typically go through one of 3 people here in the U.S. for parts; however, I managed to source a good majority of this stuff from the usual famous auction site for less than what my usual guys wanted. That's the great thing about the Bay; great deals can be had as sometimes these auctions fly under the radar. However, you have to know what you're looking for with regards to validating genuine parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin46 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 I typically go through one of 3 people here in the U.S. for parts; however, I managed to source a good majority of this stuff from the usual famous auction site for less than what my usual guys wanted. That's the great thing about the Bay; great deals can be had as sometimes these auctions fly under the radar. However, you have to know what you're looking for with regards to validating genuine parts. thank you, much appreciated i agree the bay can be a minefield and finding just what you want can often be very time consuming. i am sure if someone set up on this forum selling these parts, he/ she would have a constant flow of buyers queueing up. thanks again Colin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Pt's Sub is indeed originally from George(WM9) and was a batch of 100 that were sold out to other dealers due to the Cg's not being perfect. This watch is now the lower end 2836 eta movement model with engraving. There is a super Sub rep coming from George in the new year so I'm told but have no more details than that. I'm waiting for his new Yachtmatser project to be delivered towards the end of the month! Pt's/WM9's watch is way above the quality and accuracy of the Euromariner which is a copy of the copy in my opinion. Itr has a better dial but that is it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'm waiting for his new Yachtmatser project to be delivered towards the end of the month! I'm waiting for delivery as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Still not seen a finished pic but it does look promising! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 I have to admit; I've not been a huge YM fan, but this one has me quite anxious! Based on the preliminary pics up to this point, I'm excited to see the finished product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 There is a super Sub rep coming from George in the new year so I'm told but have no more details than that. I heard there is a 2892-A2 version expected sometime in November once the new Yachty is complete. I'm looking forward to seeing that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcook Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 when there'll be a 2892-A2 version I'll gotta have another sub *g* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcook Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 WM9 and Euromariner serials are different. Pics won't follow unfortunately, have some camera problems at the moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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