stilty Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 I've received a few requests on Franken building, so figured since I'm starting a new project, that I would post some pics of the process of building a Franken. Admin, please move to the appropriate area if necessary. I tried to post in How to section, but did not have access. I'm calling this Pt. I. But it is actually part II as the first step is changing the cannon pinion and fourth wheel. If you know how to do this, you don't need a tuturial, and if you don't know how to do it. Please get in touch with a watchmaker, or someone who does. I don't recommend changing the fourth wheel if you have little or no experience. The project I am starting is a Franken 16013 datejust. Gen SS case, YG bezel, plastic crystal. I am going to use an ETA 2824-2 movement. The movement is factory fresh from ETA. It was in a sealed package and has ETA CS markings. I am also going to use one of my 2824-2 to 3035 movement holders and a genuine Rolex date disc in champagne color. I have already snapped in the movement in the movement holder as there are a few things I want to show you. The movement holder has been designed to retro fit an ETA movement in a genuine Rolex case. The fit is snug and it does a great job. Stem alignment is perfect and the holder has a built in spacer between dial and movement. You can also glue the dial to the top of the movement holder. I'll take some pictures when I get to that stage. Here is a profile shot to show the built in spacer. We have about 0.40mm of clearance between the mainplate of the movement and the back of the dial. Perfect to installing the thick genuine date disc. One problem I have found with using the ETA 2824-2, as well as the 2892-A2, is that the date disc sits slightly recessed in the mainplate. If you look closely, you can see that it sits just under the top of the movement mainplate. If I were to glue directly to the ETA disc, I run the risk of problems down the road. The disc will rub, or get hung up and not operate properly. But, there is a solution, and it is quite easy! What I do is swap out the 2824-2 disc with a disc from a 2834-2. If you look at the picture below, you will see that the 2824-2 disc (left) is flat, while the 2834-2 disc (right) has a slight step. The step is 0.20mm. This gives just enough clearance above the movement mainplate so the overlay does not rub or touch the movement and will operate flawlessly. Here is the 2834-2 disc installed. I sanded the top so I would have a nice surface for the epoxy. You can see that it is now slightly above the mainplate when installed. Now it is time to install the genuine date disc. I use a 2 part slow set epoxy. I think it is 30 minute epoxy. Avoid anything that dries to quickly or leaves spider webs. What are spider webs? Well, they are those very fine strands of glue that string along and when applying. You don't want them in the movement! Also, you really want to use a slow set epoxy as this is not a job you want to rush. You want to be able to have sufficient time to set and reset the disc until you have it aligned perfectly. I usually mix the epoxy with a tooth pick, and then apply the epoxy in small dots, equally spaced apart. Be careful not to use too much so it leaks into the movement! I usually give it a minute or two to allow the epoxy to slightly gel up a bit. Then I carefully drop on the disc. Try to drop it straight down as you don't want to slide it around too much and risk pushing some epoxy into the movement. Now here is something that I use that saves me a lot of time! Since I build Frankens, I use gen dials, and that means I have to cut the dial feet off. This is a real pain installing the date disc as I find I spend more time making sure the dial is centered before I can check the disc alignment. What I do now is use an old rep dial that has dial feet in place for the ETA movement. Now I just drop the dial in place and check the disc alignment. It makes installation so much easier and a lot more precise! Now I just take my time, and make adjustments to the disc until alignment is perfect in the date window. I can now quick set the date through the whole month and see that each number is aligned. Once the epoxy is cured, it is now ready to install the genuine dial! Here is the date disc installed. All numbers are perfectly aligned. I tested the the quickset function. I advanced the time until the date rolled over and everything is perfect! Take a look at the picture. The combination of the 2834-2 disc and the thick genuine disc fit perfectly between the movement and back of dial. You can see that the disc just sits slightly below the top of the movement holder I'm still waiting for the case and dial, but figured I would prep the movement until they arrive. For Pt. II, I'll install the dial and hands and show you how great everything fits in the gen Rolex case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoKing Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 A good read, thanks stilty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Good stuff, stilty. This is going to be a great franken building series. Thanks for the contribution! PS - Love the date wheel alignment "trick"! Good idea, that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2sleep Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Very nice! Thanks for showing your work! Look forward to seeing the completed project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Even though I have been down the same road once or twice, watching someone else build 1 of these is always alot of fun. I cannot wait until you post part 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Cool! Looking forward to the dial and case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Fantastic !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Nice work Stilty. I also hope to build a Franken DJ one day, and guides like yours help make it a lot easier Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Very well done and documented. Bring it on...can't wait for the rest. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flex Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 great post, stilty. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 I agree with everyone else. Terrific job Stilty, and thank you for your well documented thread! Your frankens are all top grade, and are an inspiration to anyone who strives for perfection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Great stuff Stilty. Can't wait for Pt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Amazing writeup & pictorial... Thanks stilty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 This kind of information is what makes this forum truly great. I truly can't wait for the rest of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Very cool, Stilty. Thanks for sharing your techniques and tips with us. That movement ring is top-notch, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 This is what is needed...nitty gritty shots of how to do it! Good tip on the datewheel, saves a lot of hassle...and the adapter makes it all possible without plastic spacers, shims etc. Next time you make up one of these...keep track every time you work on it and tell how many hours it takes start to finish. 1...time spent running down all the parts 2...cleaning the movement if needed 3...figuring out how to make everything fit together 4...parts made and/or modifications 'in house' or sent away 5...actual assembly time Anyone who has not done it will not believe how long it can take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted November 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thanks everyone. And yes, these take a lot of time to do. Fortunately, last nights work only took about 2 hours, and that was because I took some time for pictures. The fourth wheel and cannon pinion took me about 1/2 hour. About 10-15 minutes to sand the 2834-2 date disc, and about 20 minutes aligning the date disc. But let me explain... it took hours and hours and hours of time researching, test fitting, and sourcing parts to be able to figure out how to perform the build. I now seem to have it figured out, but while I was learning by trial and error, it tooks a very long time and some damaged parts. I spent a lot of money and time figuring it out. I damaged a lot of parts with trial and error... found out the hard way about "spiderwebs" from various glues. It is not fun and very time consuming having to clean glue out of a movement! Also, the machined movement holder is the biggest time saver. It takes care a everything when it comes to fitting the movement in a gen case. There is no more guess work, and the rest comes pretty easy. But again, these took a lot of time to develop. Lots of measuring, getting prototypes made, making adjustments. CNC shops are not cheap, and finding one that will take the time to work on a small job isn't easy either. Next I'll discuss how I measure for proper hand fitting heights. What parts are required, and where to get them. And when the parts arrive, I'll install the dial, hand set, and show how perfectly it all fits in a genuine Rolex case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 stilty, great write up! do you attach new dial feet in positions correct for eta movement ? it seems like the proper way to do this, but certainly not the easiest. also, how do you remove the day disc from 2836-2 movement or day/date discs from any ETA movement? just pull it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted November 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 No need for dial feet. The dial can be glued to the rim of the movement holder. Just a few dots of epoxy to hold it in place. The pressure of the case clamps holds everything together in the case. That is another great feature of the movement holder. It also acts as a dial support! To remove the date discs, you need to unscrew a few parts from the mainplate to remove the discs. I don't recommend it if one has little or no experience, but it isn't very difficult. I rarely use 2836-2 in projects, but there are a few more steps to remove the discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 i asked because in this write up you did not mention how you removed the old disc and put in a new one.. looks like its not a straight forward procedure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlydog Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 A comprehensive and detailed step-by-step that will certainly be beneficial to many here. I appreciated your generous post and value the information you presented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted November 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 i asked because in this write up you did not mention how you removed the old disc and put in a new one.. looks like its not a straight forward procedure Sorry about that. With the 2824-2, it is not that difficult to swap the discs. Basically just one screw to remove the minute train bridge. This is a cover that holds down the minute wheel, as well as the teeth on the date disc. I'll try and post something later to show you. With the 2836-2, there are few more steps, but I haven't worked on one is while, so I don't really remember everything off hand. Anyway, with the 2836-2, there is no need to remove the disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basis280 Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Nice job... .... is the taller cannon pinion with dial spacer ...so the hands fit ... or to raise the movement in the case for proper stem and case tube alignment ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted November 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Nice job... .... is the taller cannon pinion with dial spacer ...so the hands fit ... or to raise the movement in the case for proper stem and case tube alignment ? You are correct in both points. A taller CP is required in order for the hands to clear the dial markers, as well as compensate for fitting the movement in the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basis280 Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Thank you for the reply .... don't know where you find the time .. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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