dandonnelly Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 took my watch to the watchmakers in my local mall, I took it in because it was noisy when I put it to my ear and I was worried about the rotor coming loose. The guy puts it too his ear ans shakes it and says it is normal. I asked him to remove the caseback and make sure but he refused saying that it would compromise my waterproofing. Is this normal? Did the guy think my watch was a gen. I was open with his son when I wqas calling around to watchmakers.I hadn't told the father anything about the watch he just looked at it shook it and told me not to worry but if he opened the watch it would undermine my waterproofing. Does this sound ok to you guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 It does sound weird. My experience with my watchmaker is that he has worked on maaaaaany reps. A little silicone grease on the O-ring and you're all set. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a "watchmaker" that 1. didn't know it was a rep, 2. didn't feel comfortable in removing the back because he was concerned about water-proofing. I'd find another to work on the watch. As far as the rotor goes, this is just as easy to fix as replacing a battery. Remove the back, tighten the screw that holds the rotor down, remove the O-ring and use some silicone grease to lube it up, then put 'er back together. Very easy to do yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Anytime you open up a watch, you compromise waterproofing (gasket wears, etc). He prob. thought it was real. Or rather, he did not have an Oyster opener (mall watch repair places never work on Rolex, so they'll never have the opener with proper dies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Think of his liability if he opens/closes it, it leaks and it's a gen. I've only found one place where I walked in off the street and he opened it for a quick check... And he's a Rolex watchmaker. He pressure tested it when we were done, no charge for any of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Hmmm. First of all local mall? I don't know of many real watchsmiths that could afford the rent at "the mall". Was this the generic Fossil kiosk or something? Second, searching around this forum or even google for noisy rotors / rep watch movements / water proofing will generate a ton of results. IIRC, you posted your rep at the gen Rolex forum a couple of days ago. You seem to have a strong desire to get your watch in front of as many non-rep friendly people as possible. Please do not mis-understand me, I mean no harm, but you seem to be pushing your watch into the limelight pretty hard. Try to stay within the community, DIY, and then as a last resort investigate public watchsmiths. -Ronin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 ...IIRC, you posted your rep at the gen Rolex forum a couple of days ago. You seem to have a strong desire to get your watch in front of as many non-rep friendly people as possible... Nice job one this found on YT, listen to rules #1 & #2! (Make appropriate subject matter substitutions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandonnelly Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I can't get the caseback off the watch it has nothing to do with getting my watch out in public. I called around in my city to see if I could fine someone to open my watch for me. There were only two watchmakers in the city I called them both from my cellphone and asked right up front if they could help with a rep watch.I was worried that the rotor was touching the caseback and that I might damage the movement. I was up front with the repair guy and the store is a dedicated watch reapir store. I was only worried that he changed his mind about working on a rep and that he was blowing me off. I am still worried about damage but really I can't the back off not even with the tape ball. I learned my lesson about rep in the gen world I would never even dream of calling an AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 No need to rehash... I think Don learned from the flames on here, on RG, RWI, and the lex forum. Just want to emphasize trying to stay within the community, exhaust all possibilities before flaunting it to a watch repair person outside the community. Dan, here is the DIY method: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&...st&p=617452 as for waterproofing, the rubber gasket should have a slight slime coat of silicon grease. Opening it once, and properly closing, and tightening it should not compromise what ever waterproofing the rep came with. You can also pick up a Rolex case back tool off eBay for cheap. -Ronin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandonnelly Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I understand I just wish I had someone close to me that had the tools to remove the back....damn those rolex designers and their strange casebacks. I have been contacted by a guy from here who has a guy in a town not far from me so I will give him a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJT74 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Opening the case of a Rolex Oyster gen or rep is extremely easy. Just get a $40.00 opening tool from the bay. I have opened mine (gen and rep) multiple times just to check things out. Hell I had the rep open and completely apart many times as I was building it. A little silicone based oil on the o-ring ensures a good seal. Just put little of the oil on your pinky finger and rub it on the o-ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammalone Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 good ole duct tape does wonders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 You can also pick up a Rolex case back tool off eBay for cheap. -Ronin Problem is a lot of those tools don't fit! All the dies are spot on execpt the one you actualy use. It's the 26mm from memory. This is basicly the only die you ever use so it's just as cheap to buy a Bergeon single die from someone like nationaljewelerssupplies.com and make a handle for it. Asuming you have basic metalworking tools or someone you know does. BTW, in an ideal world the gasket in the caseback should be replaced every time the watch is opened in case of small nicks or streching. I'd say the guy was just being carefull. No watchmaker likes to open a divers watch without being able to retest it. If he thought it was a gen (it's a DSSD, why shouldn't he?) there is no way he would. His pressure tester can not test to anything the depth rateing of a DSSD or even a normal sub. Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Treat yourself to a pair of these: They will give your thumbs enough grip to be able to rotate the caseback off if you press hard enough in the direction of rotation (you might feel like your nails are about to seperate from the pads, but the caseback will shift first ) To be honest, what you're describing as rotor noise, is probably normal. When it spins one way, you'll hear it 'free-wheeling', when it spins the other, you'll hear a 'ratcheting' as it winds the movement. Unless you hear a real grinding/scraping noise (not the ratcheting) you probably have nothing to worry about. I can hear the rotors on my Sub and GMT movement working, but only when I'm sitting in a relatively quiet environment and listening for them. Would I be right in thinking this is the first mechanical watch you've owned? I think what you're hearing is probably entirely normal for the kind of movement you have fitted. Remember, it is only a rep, not a gen sold at a discounted price Best of luck with any investigations/repairs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Anytime you open up a watch, you compromise waterproofing (gasket wears, etc). I don't think this is true at all. The seal on the case back is no different than the seal(s) used on the crown, which is 'opened up' many times throughout the life of the watch. As long as the seal is lubricated to allow the case back to be tightened down properly, and you don't damage/tear the seal, there should be absolutely no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Treat yourself to a pair of these: They will give your thumbs enough grip to be able to rotate the caseback off if you press hard enough in the direction of rotation (you might feel like your nails are about to seperate from the pads, but the caseback will shift first ) The rubber glove/ball/duct tape trick has only ever worked once for me. If a case back is installed correctly, with the proper amount of tightness, none of these 'tricks' will work in my experience. If the case back is loose enough for any of these to work, it's not on tight enough. Of course, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweattdogg Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 The guy probably didn't have the proper caseback tool and it probably wasn't worth his time. He probably used the first excuse the could think of. When you say your watchmaker in the mall, I hope they are not an AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 The rubber glove/ball/duct tape trick has only ever worked once for me. If a case back is installed correctly, with the proper amount of tightness, none of these 'tricks' will work in my experience. If the case back is loose enough for any of these to work, it's not on tight enough. Of course, YMMV. I've never tried a sticky ball, but I've never had any success with duct tape. The adhesive shifts too much between the caseback, and the backing material of the tape. If 'tight enough' is gauged by if a watch leaks when it goes under water, I've never had a watch leak after I've used 'the glove treatment' on them, unless there was an actual issue with the watch (which the replacement did not share) It might not get a caseback done up quite as tightly as a case wrench, but certainly good enough to get a seal, if the watch itself is capable of being sealed Also, doing up something too tightly, is just as likely to deform or damage the gasget I remember once going into an AD years ago to get the battery changed on an Accurist dive watch. They wanted one price to change the battery, and another price to change the battery and guarantee the water resistance I walked out and put the cost of battery + pressure test towards a new watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Problem is a lot of those tools don't fit! All the dies are spot on execpt the one you actualy use. It's the 26mm from memory. This is basicly the only die you ever use so it's just as cheap to buy a Bergeon single die from someone like nationaljewelerssupplies.com and make a handle for it. Asuming you have basic metalworking tools or someone you know does. Actually Col, it's the 29.5mm die which isn't even close! If you can buy a "Bergeon" 5537 case back set, for under $100, it is most likely a copy, and has that one very faulty die in it. (Most of the others are close enough to be able to get to open a watch, but the 29.5, will either damage the watch, or just plain not fit.) Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I don't think this is true at all. The seal on the case back is no different than the seal(s) used on the crown, which is 'opened up' many times throughout the life of the watch. As long as the seal is lubricated to allow the case back to be tightened down properly, and you don't damage/tear the seal, there should be absolutely no problem. The case back seal is different to the crown seal. The crown seal is an 'O' ring and made of different stuff to the majority of case back seals which are a flat seal of a different compound. They are not made for repeted opening and closing and are supposed to be replaced when opened if max water resistance is to be maintained. Actually Col, it's the 29.5mm die which isn't even close! If you can buy a "Bergeon" 5537 case back set, for under $100, it is most likely a copy, and has that one very faulty die in it. (Most of the others are close enough to be able to get to open a watch, but the 29.5, will either damage the watch, or just plain not fit.) Offshore Somehow I just knew I had that wrong and you would be around to put it straight It's the well used one at any rate. The one you realy want and it don't work. Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 If a case back is installed correctly, with the proper amount of tightness, none of these 'tricks' will work in my experience. If the case back is loose enough for any of these to work, it's not on tight enough. Of course, YMMV. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'm actually glad others find a lot of case backs hard to open, as I thought I must be the only one, who couldn't make a sticky ball/duct tape/rubber gloves/suction tool...et al, work! My most handy tool is a case crab, which works 99% of the time on "normal" casebacks, but of course is no use on Rolex style backs. And at times a decent press style opener is the only answer. The right tool for the job, is always the better option. Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'm actually glad others find a lot of case backs hard to open, as I thought I must be the only one, who couldn't make a sticky ball/duct tape/rubber gloves/suction tool...et al, work! My most handy tool is a case crab, which works 99% of the time on "normal" casebacks, but of course is no use on Rolex style backs. And at times a decent press style opener is the only answer. The right tool for the job, is always the better option. Offshore Absolutely so When in doubt, use a bigger hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatronSaintofChainsaws Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 The rubber glove/ball/duct tape trick has only ever worked once for me. If a case back is installed correctly, with the proper amount of tightness, none of these 'tricks' will work in my experience. If the case back is loose enough for any of these to work, it's not on tight enough. Of course, YMMV. It's worked on every watch that I've ever tried it on. If it's not working, chances are that you need to add more size (tape) to the ball, or change your approach. I always take the bracelet/band off, and grip the lugs to apply force in the opposite direction, so maybe that's why I've never had a problem. As for the not being tight enough, I like this quote from one of the caseback tool reviews I read: It is a myth that a case back has to be closed with a huge momentum in order to guarantee water resistance. Many people use too much force when closing case backs. A gasket ring in good condition is much more important then too many KN closing momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 "PatronSaintOfChainsaws" Now THAT'S a name I like! Here's how I open those stubborn casebacks. Just give 'er a tug, full throttle, presto! All the watches are open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Of course if the chainsaw won't open the caseback there's always the "never fails" method. It just takes good aim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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