rotten03 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Admittedly I'm new to the rep scene. But I'm starting to come around. My first rep was a DSN PAM and I paid a decent amount of money for it. 400+. But I understood that I was getting something that was put together by someone who knew what they were doing and did a good job of it. So the money was justified to me. I'm noticing now that more often than not, the watches I'm gravitating towards are 300-400+ reps. Is this a new trend? Should I expect this to be the norm? I guess I was expecting this to be a fun and reasonably affordable hobby. I mean 400 bucks will buy me a hell of a nice gen that I can actually take in the shower or pool. Are the rep manufacturers taking us for a ride or are we getting a substantially better product? Don't take my post the wrong way. I'm not attacking rep collecting or saying that I want out. I'm curious what the prices of reps were a couple of years ago. And are we feeding their greed? They see that we'll pay $400 for a rep that they were charging $150 a year ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllergyDoc Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Your $400 gen would not say "Panerai" on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten03 Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Haha too true. But it would be rated to 300m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Swimming with reps is the tricky one. Corgi I see is online, and he will tell you not to take your watch anywhere near water. Others like Gioarmani seem to have the luck of Neptune with many of his chronos being tested sound for swimming. My chronos have not tested safe for swimming, but my non-chronos have. Them's the trade-offs of the rep world. You may get lucky with a watch designed to be waterproof but with poor tolerances in manufacturing may not be (i.e. loose chrono pusher fit). ..or you may not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten03 Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I guess I see the terms "Ultimate" being thrown around. I wonder if the quality has really gone up. I mean I'm seeing that they are trying to do the mods we do before we buy them. But it seems when they try to add double AR and such we still need to send it off to Chief to be re AR'd or they add lume but we still have to send it to Watchdog. Is their attempts at added benefits just making it more expensive in the long run. The initial cost is driven up but then we have to fix what they try to do. Is my rambling making sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I guess I see the terms "Ultimate" being thrown around. I wonder if the quality has really gone up. I mean I'm seeing that they are trying to do the mods we do before we buy them. But it seems when they try to add double AR and such we still need to send it off to Chief to be re AR'd or they add lume but we still have to send it to Watchdog. Is their attempts at added benefits just making it more expensive in the long run. The initial cost is driven up but then we have to fix what they try to do. Is my rambling making sense? I agree with this. I almost wish they offered a "barebones" version, or even a "kit" version. Personally, I would love to see see super/ultimate rep'd cases & crystals that TRULY accespt genuine parts. At a minimum a non-AR version at a lesser price since Chief is hard to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllergyDoc Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I've swam with a $99 Sub and a $375 Sub. Never had any watch tested for water resistance. I've collected reps for about 3 years--not really an "old timer." I started off with the cheapos, then got sucked in my Best Swiss and paid $1,050 for a YM. It's one of the best-made replicas I've ever had. Replicas are fun because you can "try out" a model for under $200. If you don't like it, someone will be happy to take it off your hands. It's a hobby. As for keepers, it's better to get the modded ones. Your DSN is a good example. BK's Rollies are another. That you started off with a DSN means you have good taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I guess I see the terms "Ultimate" being thrown around. I wonder if the quality has really gone up. the answer, without a doubt, is a resolute YES. quality has most definitely gone up. i think this is probably one of the things that bugs "old timers" the most -- noobies complaining about a really minor issue and/or innacuracy with their watch (or the fact that it took more than 5 days to receive their rep), when they don't appreciate where reps have come from over the years. quality has improved immensely. just my $0.02 of course deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 There were days when people were more than happy to pay upwards of $400 for a submarinr with ETA movement that doen't come cose to the accuracy of today's $99 versions. Then there were days when most reps were selling for between $200 and $300. It has only been within the last couple of years that our replicas are being made with the same features as their gen counterparts. It is also a fairly new trend that manufacturers are purchasing the genuine watch instead of relying on pictures for the details. I still feel that most reps are a bargain. Any genuine watch with an automatic chrongraph movement, solid 316L stainless steel, sapphire crystal and AR will set you back a minimum of $2,000. With or without the name on the dial you can buy a watch with these same features for under $400. Granted you won't get the quality control as you would with a swiss made time piece, but our trusted dealers stand behind their products. Over the years the demand for quality, features and accuracy has increased. Our friends in China have delivered but you have to expect to pay for it. They do however offer a wide rane of accuracy, quality and features, as with any product line, so this hobby can still be lots of fun even with a tight budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten03 Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 That's what I was wondering...if the $99 rep of a few years ago was anywhere near the $300 rep of today. Makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billywhiz Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Good question. I think what has indeed come on more over the last few years are peoples knowledge towards reps, indeed as posted before we would have spent $300 + on a noobmariner, the quality was not as good , neither was the reliability, sure we still have issues but most of the watches were built using photos of gens. There were unscrupulous(sp) people back then that would offer mods to your watches and charge you a lot of $$$ for it, subsequent years down the line we find out that those so called mods were done & parts, very cheaply, but an I hasten to add, you thought you was getting moneys worth as to have a lets say for the sake of it, ' Joe Bloggs ' modded Rollie, was like getting as close to what was thought of as gen back in the day. CN will never ever produce a 1:1 watch period, however what they will do is produce something that is more than capable of taking gen parts. Thats the hunt of our hobby for some of our purists, whilst others are happy to sport their noobmariner everyday of the week. Being out of it for a few years ( my last purchase back on rwg1 in 05' being the edition 1 PAM 196 daylight from Josh ) I've come back and literally had to take a deep breath. I've now got a couple of exceptional pieces over the last few months, but the is only one thing here bottom line to add. You get what you pay for and this forum is an absolute must to weed out the 'white lies' on whatever watch your after, the reviews are really good and I got GMTc ichs on this basis. The Chinese really have stepped up a gear over the last 5 years. What they are producing now even in so called 'ultimate' mode is way, way superior to anything in 04'/ 05'. Peace Edited April 25, 2009 by billywhiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 The prices really have not changed that much.. but the quality of the cheaper ones especially has, so you can now get a pretty good rep for $100, but the prices for the best reps are really pretty similar. Thinking back I paid $399 for the first electric blue eta seamaster from Wade about 8 (?) years back, $399 for the "closed factory" 2892 based 007 Omega from River about 6 years back, $350 for the all titanium Chrono Avenger from River 4 years ago, $700 for the 7753 196 about 3 years back, $700 for the "genuine ceramic bezel" hublot a couple of years back.. $300 for the Black Steel just recently. There are many more but you can see the prices have not really shifted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 prices are different quality is in a different universe. this was never a cheap hobby, we used to spend alot on mods, just we just buy the stuff ready to go and Chieftang changed the universe 5yrs of doing this on the boards, 8 yrs of reps in general Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 There was a time when some gen ETA watches could be had for $175-$250, and the Chinese powered versions were $100 or less. I can't remember back then any rep being offered much over $350. However the quality of finish and accuracy today is far beyond the "old" days. Now we just need the old prices, on the new reps! Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 There was a time when some gen ETA watches could be had for $175-$250, and the Chinese powered versions were $100 or less. I can't remember back then any rep being offered much over $350. However the quality of finish and accuracy today is far beyond the "old" days. Now we just need the old prices, on the new reps! Offshore eddie lee offered the first pam sandwhich dial with asian movt for $400 the first "fiddys" with mineral glass were like 600$ and the AR was pretty much a fake thin film that looked like ar when you hold the ligh to the right angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-aussie Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 agreed wtih offshore. The sub $200 reps were real ETA .... teh MBW were $ 300 range and at that time it was suppose to be the hole grail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Swimming with reps is the tricky one. Corgi I see is online, and he will tell you not to take your watch anywhere near water. Others like Gioarmani seem to have the luck of Neptune with many of his chronos being tested sound for swimming. My chronos have not tested safe for swimming, but my non-chronos have. Them's the trade-offs of the rep world. You may get lucky with a watch designed to be waterproof but with poor tolerances in manufacturing may not be (i.e. loose chrono pusher fit). ..or you may not. +1 I've been pretty lucky with my watches, and they've either been waterproof out of the box, or possible to make waterproof. Even my Panerai and Omega chronographs stood up to extended immersion in a hot tub without issue As long as a watch has been reasonably well manufactured, the design itself tends to ensure water resistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 The prices really have not changed that much.. but the quality of the cheaper ones especially has, so you can now get a pretty good rep for $100, but the prices for the best reps are really pretty similar. Thinking back I paid $399 for the first electric blue eta seamaster from Wade about 8 (?) years back, $399 for the "closed factory" 2892 based 007 Omega from River about 6 years back, $350 for the all titanium Chrono Avenger from River 4 years ago, $700 for the 7753 196 about 3 years back, $700 for the "genuine ceramic bezel" hublot a couple of years back.. $300 for the Black Steel just recently. Ture. The first really good rep came from Wade - the blue Omega SMP. In today's standard, this good rep is full of flaws. The dial is not crisp and clean but you can see the wave pattern nicely. Quality has gone up and prices remained about the same. So collecting reps today is really better than what it was before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcook Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I went diving with my modded standard rep Panerai 111 and my WM9 Submariner as well as with my WM9 Explorer 1 ... IMO one should go the high quality way and water won't hurt your watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 things have changed and for the better. 4 years ago the "holy grails" were selling for close to $400.00. Today, they don't even compare to the "Holy Grails" available now and prices are pretty close. What's changed the most is the cheaper ($100) reps. They've gotten to the point where they are the equal of yesterday's expensive reps. The Chinese have taken it too the next step, and I wonder what comes next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Manny Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I think back to that time period when the quality had come up and the movements were still eta. That was the best of times! 2893 Soprod modules 2892 Solid 18kt RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 agreed wtih offshore. The sub $200 reps were real ETA .... teh MBW were $ 300 range and at that time it was suppose to be the hole grail the mbw was never a holy grail - it was only the best candidate to switch with gen parts. so it was a great piece for modding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billywhiz Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Wasn't there a 1k price PAM being offered in 05' can't remember what model but it was the mvmnt cost. anyone get one of those ? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 early to mid 1990s reps I remember being really horrible. polished and brushed surfaces were thin layers of metal applied on top of who knows. Cast iron? Your arm would turn green. The endices on the dial would fall off in a few weeks. They ticked. They fell off your wrist. things just progressively got better and better. I was hanging around RWG1 a bit before landing here. My first piece was from Josh, a 16610. Nickle ETA, pearling on the bridges, really sweet. Probably surplus mvmt, but it is surprisingly nice. All for about $250. The details are nowhere near Freddy standards, its wokked, but I like it. Enough to want a gen, or at least a BKV2 sometime. I've swam hard with every rep except my PAM (because of the strap). The SFSO sitting on the desk right now, that thing kills me. Good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 guess I was expecting this to be a fun and reasonably affordable hobby. I mean 400 bucks will buy me a hell of a nice gen that I can actually take in the shower or pool. Like Doc said it wouldn't say 'Panerai'. and that's why people buy reps. You can't impress your boss, get in chicks pants or make people think you're more affluent than you are with a Seiko. The prices have gone up which is natural. But recent demand for lower prices has resulted in a lot of bargain versions which are either missing things that they used to have or are lower quality parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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