RWG Technical Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Modified watch send for repair and review This watch was sent to me for two reasons, 1. to have some work done and corrected, and 2. have a review done on it and what I found, and post it on the forum. The owner has chosen to do this as in his own words “Too much Bull [censored] and too little performance. Prices are ridiculous, because we are stupid and pay them….if putting photos of my watch on the board and showing the flaws helps to keep some other poor schmuck from getting taken, then it's worth it.” So with that out of the way, here is what I got in the mail First thing I noted, was the lume and the damage on the hour hand… Here is a list of what was done to the watch, and the corresponding prices. 120.00 USD -red sub works package-mill cgs,tighten bezel,water test (,the obvious stuff like regrease o-rings , clean dial , clean crystal , clean inner ring like it should be, if using same insert I realign it for u , ) u can also just option for cgs milling for 60 bucks and the obvious stuff is included in that as well 100.00 USD-caseholes or lugholes drilled out and put the fatter pins in it also mill out the bracelet to fit the new pins ok 75.00 USD-refinish case to make it look like a refinished watch like a 1970's watch should look like. no sharp lines on case 100.00 USD-change crown/tube out to a smaller one more like genuine 65.00 USD-new insert with correct ring around the pearl and font size Total : 460.00 less 10.00 = 450.00 USD (He was so generous, He gave me a 10 dollar discount, because he kept my watch for 3 months!!) 150.00 USD Relume hands and dial with the radium vintage relume material Grand Total 600 USD What was done, and what it looks like on inspection. 120.00 USD -red sub works package-mill cgs 100.00 USD-caseholes or lugholes drilled out and put the fatter pins in it also mill out the bracelet to fit the new pins Ziggy comment: the term “Milled” is so overused and does not even describe what was done, the bracelet is “Drilled” NOT milled…it’s the old “would you like a piece of Pollack, or Boston Blue Fish…” Fancy words to make it sound exotic and expensive… 75.00 USD-refinish case to make it look like a refinished watch like a 1970's watch should look like. no sharp lines on case Here is the modified watch… Here is a BRAND NEW UNMODIFIED Josh sub to compare it to… Ziggy comment: I fail to see the difference…what was done for $75?? 100.00 USD-change crown/tube out to a smaller one more like genuine Customer comments “HA HA the new one is worse than the original, almost cannot screw in the crown” Ziggy comment: I guess “more like the genuine” actually means a crown from another rep… you be the judge, $100 upgrade??). Genuine crown tube next to one on watch. Genuine crown on the RIGHT Genuine on the RIGHT Genuine crown and tube, NOTE the splines on the inside of the tube for installation with the tool. GENUINE tube on the LEFT 65.00 USD-new insert with correct ring around the pearl and font size Customer comment “he did such a great job of tightening the bezel, I had to send it back because you needed a pipe wrench to turn it!! Ziggy comment: reason for frozen bezel was that the glue was over the inside of the bezel ring and had glued the bezel to the case. Given that this model does NOT have a spring holding the bezel in place, not sure how it was tightened as there is nothing in there, it’s a pressed on fit…metal against metal… Relume hands and dial with the radium vintage relume material. 150.00 USD Ziggy comment: I am speechless at the price and the quality… Ziggy comment: Bit of damage to the dial, next to the 6 marker… Ziggy comment: The hands can get scratched during relume, in this case, the marks on the hour hand are not due to relume, but due to poor workmanship Ziggy comment: What marked the hands? The minute one is installed too close to the hour one, and that is why the marks sweep across the hand, as they are rubbing together…Lack of or no training in watchmaking? Skill? Lack of attention to detail? Rushed? not likely as this was a 3 month turn around. You decide which one…note also the dirt and lume on the side of the hands… Dial shots Customer comments “… this one really sucks, looks like he had his kid paint the lume on! Uneven, doesn't come out to the edges, just terrible…” Well that about sums up what I found when I opened the case… Is what you see worth $600…certainly some of the upgrades and work are questionable, and that is being generous…$150 for the relume, $100 for a replica crown and tube… Not much else to say… I am going to try and fix the lume on the dial by scraping off the old stuff, and replacing it… as well as do a bunch of other stuff… What else can be said? Is this a one-off oddity? Or is this normal… There are members who have been waiting for over a year to have their watches returned, emails and phone calls go unanswered for months – that is until they post on the forum in despair, and by a miracle – get a call from the man himself within a few hours of posting (coincidence??? Probably not). Sending a watch back in that condition, with that lack of attention to detail, poor quality of workmanship, questions as to what was gotten for the money (Crown, Case Ageing, Lume job) leaves me to say only this, “please inform yourself and know what is NORMAL in terms of cost and quality of what you should expect from anyone working on your watch”. Just cause someone charges inflated prices does not in itself imply quality of workmanship… Anyone who would send a watch in to this individual after all that has gone on and been posted….well they have no sympathy from me…those that continue to think that this person is the best thing since sliced bread, I have to say, you have a totally different slant on what I consider acceptable practices when your paying for services… That is not to say that some of the work is not acceptable, but given that people have been waiting for over a year, 140+ watches waiting for work as of July (his words not mine), I can't help but wonder what is the quality of what is being sent out...most likely many are too embarassed to step up and admit they got very little for their money...bitter pill to swallow after all the dollars and months of waiting... Shame on us for not seeing this coming before it got so bad...and shame on us for having a forum where people are afraid to speak up, when many knew that this was going on (I did question some of the snake oil services such as "Crystal repressing" "$40 dial [censored]s" and also posted about those telling me they had serious problems, but that got me nowhere except frustrated and flamed, so I finally gave up...) RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linder Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 OMG.. those pics.. thinking about how nice of a watch it started as.. and what it cost.. I'm going to be sick.. and its not even my watch.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonton2000 Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 OH MY GOD! The whole thing probably cost nearer $800-$1000 including the original watch, and total shipping charges. NEARLY $1000!........FOR THAT! Sorry but thats a really bum deal. I know its not easy to do any of these mods, and i myself dont have the first idea, but i know what i consider to be a reasonable standard of work that reflects the price paid for the job, and this is nowhere near it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Rob, I think this evidence is what we honestly need to see! Thanks for the GREAT imformation! I had to learn the hard way with Joe also (regarding mods) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasigi Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I consider myself lucky, I was supposed to be having a watch supplied and modded but I got my cash back so all it cost me was the paypal fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Rob, I think this evidence is what we honestly need to see! Thanks for the GREAT imformation! I had to learn the hard way with Joe also (regarding mods) ! If I knew that was what I was going to get for $600, i would just buy a decent set of starter tools, a gram of lume, 3 cheap subs to get started and go to town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x86uops Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thanks for the review. This is definitely the kind of stuff we would like to see in the forum. I hope the newbies (me included) are reading this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aclaimsman Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 (edited) I hope that the people who sent their watches to this so called modder get them back in one piece. I had a similar experience with this person and chose to keep my mount shut because his fans would have flamed my [censored] at the time. I would never ever send anything to him again and am of the opinion that he is an amateur at best. Good luck to all who trusted this person. Edited October 5, 2006 by aclaimsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thank you Rob for posting this and to the owner for insisting that his watch be used for the illustration. I was aware that prices quoted for works package were ridiculous but this level of workmanship at any price is downright wrong. It is disturbing that so many members wrote glowing reviews of the work that had been performed so often here & TRC. Not much else to add as your excellent write up painfully makes the point. This is truly amazing & hope that all those missing their watches get them back asap. Regards, Jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I was lucky, no word for month then phone call as soon as I posted about it on the forums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I always had good communication. And the work i had done was probably priced appropriatly - but, i did eat almost 400 dollars because of the watches that came in from king were [censored]. I have to believe that he knew the problems before he sent them to me and i was suprised they were serviced and sent. Instead of having the problems corrected then doing the work on the watches. King promised to replace (through him), but i never got anything. chaulked it up to part of the learning process here. and i put the blame on king. But having seen this review - i will not give the benefit of the doubt anymore that he could have missed the serious problem with my day date. - only on 2 days of the week could you see the entire day name - there were varying degrees of coverup for the following days - sold the watch for basicaly the value of the serviced eta movement. I also must say that since i have used The Zigmeister and, he is top notch proffessional - goes way above and beyond to make sure a job is done. I constantly brag about how my 47 was hand painted - i.e. relumed and it never fails to get an oohh and ahhh. this just makes me appreciate one more time the great job he did. thanks zig - i got some more fun stuff coming your way soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stac Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Nice post of a horrible job... Thanks for sharing with us Rob Thank God I can do all these mods myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 There really is nothing else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thanks for the heads up, The Zigmeister... The proof is in the pudding as they say. Unreal. Simply unbelievable. Moral: If you're in the US and can't do the mods yourself (could you REALLY do worse than this though?), just get used to sending your watches to Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 There is an interesting thread pinned at the top of the Repair & Upgrade forum titled "Getting Your Movements Serviced Is Easy Now ." It seems to me that the illustration in this thread by The Zigmeister of everything that can be done incorrectly to mod a rep is at least equally worthy of being pinned. The cautionary nature of this thread does not need to target a single individual. But it should serve as a warning how important it is to vet the skills and pricing of anyone offering to work on your watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 If I knew that was what I was going to get for $600, i would just buy a decent set of starter tools, a gram of lume, 3 cheap subs to get started and go to town. That's what I did...but after just one cheap sub. Here are my results: MBW Mods ...Go for it! There's nothing like the feeling of doing it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I had no idea how much he was charging, truly shocked. I was doing some stuff on my 1680 last week and with lots of gen bits (including correct insert) and it cost less than 550.... including the watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bignasty Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 WOW I don't know which is worse, the workmanship or the feeling you would get in your gut whe you open that watch up and balance your bank statement! Hopefully this won't happen to anyone elsee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aclaimsman Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Jon, You should know, you got one of my disasters. Did you ever get the case back off? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 OMFG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 The cautionary nature of this thread does not need to target a single individual. But it should serve as a warning how important it is to vet the skills and pricing of anyone offering to work on your watches. Well said, jkerouac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I may say just this: here is the power of the SEARCH button... Unfortunately there will be more people in the future unless we stick this topic and mention the name for the new members to BE AWARE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 There really is nothing else to say. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you, Rob, for getting this into the open. This is what people need to see to avoid becoming another statistic! Best, R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polynomial Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well, ya know RBJ has big fat fingers, I am surprised this looks this good, at least he didn't break the christal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 What can I add, it's all here already. Thanks Rob. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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