Rollie SD with a few mods, what do you think? Rep? Gen?

[RWG Technical]

A few mods and upgrades, what is genuine (if anything...) can you tell?

Kind of hard to hide the origin of the movement...

Thanks for looking.

RG

[freddy333]

The pictures are not up to your usual quality, RG, so I am not positive, but it looks like an aftermarket (Viet Nam-made) case & dial (possibly aftermarket bracelet with gen end links - cannot tell for sure from the pictures), otherwise all gen. Also, the insert looks a bit strange. Not so much the insert itself, but the way it appears to be fitted into the bezel (not pressed in all the way?????).

[POTR]

Possibly NDT Case and dial? Wavy insert, like it's a little too large for the bezel, from the side pic... but the "5" in "50" is really nice, and the "40" (the other spot on the bezel I always look for tells) is nice and parallel (but a bit over exposed, so the space looks narrow)... nice lacquered pearl but looks a little "high"... Gen insert, AM bezel?

580 looks a bit too "deep," but still right.. didn't shoot the whole clasp... but what is there is nice...

You are cruel The Zigmeister... Mostly Gen.

[stilty]

I'm really interested in this picture.

Did you buff out some of the stamping on the clasp blade? Or Photoshop it out to try and confuse us?

Shouldn't it read "PATENTED & REGISTERED"

[Sir-Lancelot]

The whole watch has me confused.

I want to say something, but dont want to end up with egg on my face.

[Toadtorrent]

Standard MBW case, aftermarket insert, replica hands and dial, genuine vintage 703 crown, genuine clasp with error (still genuine), gen endlinks (but not right ones for 1665, fake springbar in bracelet clasp. Forgot the dial, it's a standard MBW dial.

Anything else?

Ah - movement is gen.

Uuuuuh...yeah...exactly what he said.

Looks great to me...I wouldn't be able to tell squat like Repaustria and Freddy...all I can say is WOW.

[Greystash]

What does this say about the world of reps and frankens, if the best here still are not %100 sure.

It seems to me the average guy on the street hasn't got a snowballs...

Thanks for the pics The Zigmeister. How long are you going to make us wait.

[freddy333]

What does this say about the world of reps and frankens, if the best here still are not %100 sure.

In this case, I think it says more about the importance of having good, clear pictures than the difficulty of telling gens from reps. But as reps get better, the differences become less clear.

[Greystash]

In this case, I think it says more about the importance of having good, clear pictures than the difficulty of telling gens from reps. But as reps get better, the differences become less clear.

And yet those pics are showing a lot more detail than one could casually observe from a wearers wrist.

Edited March 29, 2008 by Greystash

[mezzanine]

I wondered what it was that caused people to think it was a vietnamese case. The Zigmeister is getting crazy-good at those crown guards.

I would say that the dial is a standard MBW...I don't see what about it would be different to what we usually get.

The insert looks rep to me. It's sometimes tough to be able to spot the gen inserts in pics. I usually try to look at the fonts as the silver fonts look more painted on with the rep inserts, and I also look at where the light is hitting the insert. The gens tend to reflect the light back differently. I usually notice more dimension to the colour and that it reflects light differently- like a matte silverish hue.

crystal looks like a standard genuine flat-top. crown looks like a standard triplock to me, I can't spot the vintage ones.

Genuine endlinks, but I would be suspicious about that bracelet. I guess only because the clasp looks spotty, but still genuine I guess based on the size of the clasp holes.

Genuine crown.

[Omega]

IMO: Gen crown, gen endlinks, gen movement, gen clasp, aftermarket crystal. Hmm, about the caseback I don't know, on the pics is don't showing that I want to see...

Some pics from crown- and valve position would tell us more.

But still great work, congrats!!!

[Watchmeister]

Ziggy, thanks for the loop. What I like about these posts is that you get folks who actually know a fair amount about vintage Rolexes together at one time. The thing about Rolexes is that it is a subject where the more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know.

[Tribal]

I agree in all points with Olli.

Yuo have done fantastic work The Zigmeister.

Looks fantastic

[RWG Technical]

EDIT New Pictures.

Does this make it easier, or confuse the issue...

RG

[ubiquitous]

Gorgeous job!! This one is a real work of art, ZZ. Some lucky owner is going to be very happy when this one lands at their door step!

[cskent69]

Standard MBW case, aftermarket insert, replica hands and dial, genuine vintage 703 crown, genuine clasp with error (still genuine), gen endlinks (but not right ones for 1665, fake springbar in bracelet clasp. Forgot the dial, it's a standard MBW dial.

Anything else?

Ah - movement is gen.

I am with Repaustria - i was thinking the same thing. It is beautiful. The Zigmeister - mine will be on its way when I get the movement and caseback!!!

[Jetsons]

Terrific work of art, The Zigmeister! The dial and case work are fantastic. Someone is going to be a very happy camper.

I'm curious about the hands. They seem a bit thinner from the gen parts I'm familiar with. Perhaps it's a photo effect. Any ideas where these might have come from?

Cheers,

J

[RWG Technical]

As always, thanks for the nice words and feedback.

The dial and hands were relumed with my mix of vintage Tritium, I also relumed the pearl to make it match the dial and hands.

The bezel and insert were simply installed on the case, they were assembled when the watch arrived.

Case lug holes drilled, gen spring bars installed, no work needed to fit the 2mm bars to the bracelet.

Gen crown and aftermarket tube installed, CG's inner and outer modified and polished.

Gen T39 installed.

Movement modified (read machined down) to fit the case, it needed about 1mm removed from the outer edge so it would seat far enough down in the case. No servicing of the movement, it's working good and nice and clean.

That's about it, looks good, I hope the owner likes the end results.

Got to run...

RG

[RWG Technical]

I'm curious about the hands. They seem a bit thinner from the gen parts I'm familiar with. Perhaps it's a photo effect. Any ideas where these might have come from?

I couldn't say, gen hands for sure, where they are from...I don't know.

Maybe the owner will let us know.

RG

[ubiquitous]

BTW... I have to agree with repaustria. That looks like an MBW case to me. Especially the valve. All the VN cases I've seen have a different valve (size and shape).

[freddy333]

Thanks Ziggy. Now I can see that it is a standard MBW DRSD case. You should consider adding a working HEV before returning the watch to its owner. It would be a shame to leave that etching on the side of the case after all the other work.

I am curious about the work you did on the movement to get it to fit into the case. Specifically, why did you choose to remove metal from the movement instead of the inside of the case? Compared to a working 1570, an MBW case is worth alot less, easier to replace & generally easier to work on (since you do not have to worry about where the metal shavings are going while you are working on it). And if you were not planning to disassemble & clean the movement (after modding the plate), how can you be sure you did not get any metal bits in the movement during the metal removal?

I had to remove a good bit of metal to fit 1 of the V72s in 1 of my DW cases and, at the time, I considered modding the Valjoux's plate instead of the case. But I could not figure out any way to keep the metal fragments from getting into the movement during the grinding. At the same time, I figured that any metal bits left in the case could be easily washed out after I finished modding the case.

[RWG Technical]

All I have for metal working is a Dremel... The movement would not seat far enough into the case, and the lip that was preventing it from seating where it should, was a fraction of a mm from the rehaut.

On the Daytona I just did, I had no choice but to machine the inside of the case with the Dremel and a cut-off wheel. Doing this under a loupe no less, with a 30,000 RPM wheel is very difficult and unforgiving, one slip and the case is ruined. I was not prepared to risk damaging the rehaut in an effort to get the movement to fit the case. So I came up with a solution I have used in the past, modify the movement instead...

On the 1570, there is a removable ring that holds the datewheel in place. This ring was all that needed to be modified to get it to fit in the case. The datewheel retention ring was removed from the movement, and about 1mm was removed in total from the outer edge, then it was cleaned up, and re-installed on the movement. No risk, no metal fillings, no problems...you can't even tell it was modified unless you look very close, and it will not affect the movement at all...

Sometimes you have to take the route with the best chance of success without the risk of ruining the watch, I chose this route for this mod, since I didn't have any other choice.

RG

[stilty]

Sounds like the best option The Zigmeister. Especially since the date disc holders can be somewhat easily found if the owner ever wanted to re-sell the movement. I have a spare NOS 1570 date disc holder in the drawer if your customer would like it for future use.

[freddy333]

Ziggy -- That makes sense. I assume the outer ring you are referring to is this 1 (you removed the 3 screws in the red circles)

I will have to give that a try if I have problems getting the 1570 to fit my MBW case.

Thanks, and again, great work as usual.

[Stephane]

Ziggy, thanks for the loop. What I like about these posts is that you get folks who actually know a fair amount about vintage Rolexes together at one time. The thing about Rolexes is that it is a subject where the more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know.

Exactly !

What else coul I say