Breitling Skyland Black Steel

[lanikai]

Hosted by ~ Lanikai

Breitling Pro ~ Andreww

General Counsel ~ DBR

Dave123

Hello, and Welcome to the first (hopefully of many) Comprehensive ~ Reviews, done in collaboration with multiple authors, Of course one could do these reviews "Solo"... but in an effort to give you, the members the best of all Worlds, and views,.. needless to say "experts" in their respective Fav Brands, and perhaps more in depth analysis .. I present to you the Co~Authored Review of the Breitling Black Steel Skyland .. Our Authors include ..

Andrew, for his passion and expertise in the Breitling line of watches.... Andrew has spent countless hours writing up "Top Shelf" reviews to bring you the best information possible. you can find his reviews "pinned" in the Breitling section of the RWG.

DBR .. for his insight into the Black Steel .. so those who do not know what it actually is can now have that knowledge .. it did take a little persuading .. as one of many Veterans on the RWG, doc is always willing to share his knowledge (which is plentiful) to the rest of the board.

And, Yours truly .. I am concerned in presenting the most informative review that "we" can assemble .. so to harness the best "team" I have asked these members to participate with me in the BLACK STEEL review..needless to say .. it has been a blast to coordinate such valued members to present to you all this "Team Effort"

With Sincere Aloha ~ Lani

So, to start off the long awaited Black Steel replication Andrew has "Honours" with the introduction ~

We hope you enjoy our presentation and it helps you to decide on the Breitling Black Steel as another addition to your collection

Introduction

by ~ Andrew

Thanks Lan, it’s always an honor to be chosen as the leadoff hitter!

2008 saw the end of an era for Breitling, the end of the much loved Chrono Avenger. The demise of the titanium cased, little brother of the massive Super Avenger normally would have caused an uproar among Breitling enthusiasts, but the quick release of it’s replacement, the Skyland, soon quashed any rumblings.

To commemorate it’s release Breitling introduced a limited edition of 2000 pieces called the Skyland Blacksteel. The Blacksteel features a blackened case, achieved not by a PVD coating, but by a carbon nitride process that darkens the steel with a much more durable finish than PVD.

The summer of 2008 saw the release of the much anticipated Skyland Rep. Members excitement was somewhat subdued however due to an odd looking half lume dot at 3:00 and an incorrectly lumed triangle marker at 12:00. In a matter of days we were stunned by the release of the V2 Skyland, an obviously superior version. Immediately the question was raised “Will there be a Black Steel version?”.

Fast forward about five months. After numerous delays, the release of the disappointing PVD’d V1, and a slew of prototype photos, the V2 Black Steel is finally available for purchase. Because the SS version was such a high quality rep, the success of the Black Steel will be determined by two things in my opinion, the quality of the lime application, and more importantly, the quality of the titanium carbon nitride blackening process. This application is a first for our reps, as is the ability to request a unique limited edition number, so without further ado, lets take a closer look at the V2 Skyland Blacksteel.

Many of us purchase watches... for the aesthetics ~, and the Breitling Black Steel surely attests to that thought,.. but what is "Black Steel?" to answer this I have contacted DBR as he did inquiries (with Breitling) into the properties (out of professional work habits) ... so we are fortunate to have DBR take part in this Review.. and clarify what "Black Steel" is in relationship to the Breitling Skyland Black Steel Timepiece.

What is "Black Steel?"

By ~ DBR

Breitling "BlackSteel"

I'm no expert in the area of PVD (physical vapour deposition), except for the basics applied to watch cases for aesthetic effect – that it is characterised by a thin-layered coating is applied to the substrate (base metal in this case), which depending on the coating's composition (many types usually the added elements are carbon, boron, silicon etc.) gives a dark effect to the metal, anywhere from jet black to sandy grey, matte or shiny.

The 'Black Steel" process Breitling used is similar in concept and appearance to your standard PVD but with some noticeable differences. Firstly, the makeup is specifically a titanium-carbon-nitride layer, often referred to in layman's terms as diamond-like carbon (or DLC).

This seems to be the preferred method for 'PVD' coatings these days as it confers slightly more durable properties than previously. It is suggested (I'm no chemist) that the coating 'impregnates' the metal substrate's outer surface during the process, which sounds dubious but would certainly account for the properties we see with it.

In theory, it's a very simple and relatively inexpensive process. However, in practice, it's a huge PIA to get exactly right, getting the coating to 'take' and the colour exactly uniform. In fact, I have it on *cough* extremely good authority that Breitling had huge problems with the coating and their internal QC rejected many Black Steel cases at first, causing production to be very sluggish, barely releasing more than 50 of the planned 2000 in the first run.

Appearance-wise, as most of you know, it's less 'black' than the standard PVD.

On the gen Black Steel, we're talking a gorgeous shade of gunmetal here, definitely matte in appearance. However, the shade depends on the light you're viewing it in, and does vary in appearance. One other thing to note with the appearance of the gen, is that is prone to fingerprints, or fingerprint oil most probably. Not a big deal and easily wiped off, but worth mentioning that's all.

As for the durability of the coating itself, well the mythical scratch-proof is just that……mythical. Rather think of it as scratch-resistant, and since the coating does in fact appear to extend beyond a mere external coating, you won't get that dreaded shiny base metal shining through black coating as with standard PVD. But it will still scratch given the opportunity, so be warned.

And so, to the long-awaited rep version………over to Lani and Andreww.

Lani Writes:

Thank you !! DBR ... so the DLC is prone to the oils in ones hands.. ergo, vulnerable to fingerprints .. it is the "DLC" coating .. and is "scratch resistant and not scratch "proof"

Interestingly Breitling had difficulties with the coating .. so it may be safe to say the genuines vary in consistency (?) so I wonder if all the genuines are identical in appearance .. there may be some differences in appearance although "matte" is the rule and not the exception ..

Andrew Writes:

DBR, your comments about Breitling consistency issues with DLC add to what has been worrying me about this rep for some time. If you consider a piece of wood, PVD would be akin to paint, DLC would be more like stain. Its easy to cover the wood to with paint and get a consistent color. Stain, however, shows every inconsistency in the wood and is more susceptible to poor application. My concern is that with a lack of quality control, we will see blotchy, uneven application of DLC on this rep.

Now for some measurements

The Genuine............................Replication

Specifications

Model: Avenger Skyland Black Steel

Production Years: 2008

Movement: Breitling 13 ........................................A7750 ~ 28k

Power Reserve: 42 Hours ......................................not known

Water Resistance: 300m .......................................not immediately

Bezel: Unidirectional .......................................same

Crown: Screw-Locked .......................................same

Crystal: Sapphire .......................................Double AR.. as Genuine

Diameter: 45mm .......................................47mm from the 9 to CG

Thickness: 17.4mm .........................................17.9

Weight: 144.3g ..........................................5.9 oz.

Bracelet: Divers .........................................Breitling divers

Lug Width: 22mm .........................................22 mm

Watch Winder Direction: Clockwise

Reference Numbers: m13380 ...................................same m13380

Complications

Chronograph, Date ..................................................same

The Black Steel Replication ~ Box provided by Stardblast

Now to the "Meat and Potatos"

The Movement

The genuine Breitling "Caliber 13" is none other than the Swiss Valjoux ~ 28k .. I guess the euphamism of "Caliber 13" sounds more impressive.

The replication uses the Asian 7750 ~ 28k.. the Valjoux's copy.. there are many different opinions regarding this movement.. but for those who never have read Ziggy's summary and detailed disection of this movement.. you should do so before asking about it......Here

For those that are new to the RWG.. Ziggy is our Begging and End to all Horological questions and answers.. so read !! the Zigmiester is also an artist .. look at all the fantastic lumes that are shown upon completion..

In a simple short phrase.. the A7750 movement is a very durable movement.. once it has been serviced properly.. as it rarely comes serviced properly from the factory.. all the A 7750 movements that I have had serviced by Ziggy has been running spot on .. but you should still read Ziggy's section .. you will be 100 % more informed than you are now..

We are lucky that Breitling has not gone to "In House" movements as the replication of the Blacksteel Rep. uses a copy of the movement that is in the genuine.. ergo .. better representation of the DW .. etc.

Recent Skyland reps have been experiencing problems with the movement stopping.. I have had both /skylands stop .. but after a little adjusting of the regulator it has been fine.. I cannot explain the technical reason.. so this is something I will have to take pics of and post for an answer.

Andrew's comments

I have to agree with you Lan, I've had nothing but success with all my 7750 watches. Although I'm sure the A7750 in the Blacksteel V2 will for the most part be trouble free, I can't help but feel disappointed that the manufacturer didn't use the newest version with the fine adjustment regulator. Also, it would have been nice to include a decorated rotor, especially considering the high cost on this piece. Its a solid stock motor with no upgrades. The V1 looks nicer under the hood IMO

Lani~

RED FLAG !!!

My movement stopped upon use today.. the same with my 2 skylands.. again ,.. I am no authority on movements..but it seems the regulating arms.. is stoppong the balance wheel.. now this may be problematic on the newer A7750's.. I do not know but 3 out of 3 is not a coincedence ..

I moved the 2 arms apart and the movement started up again.. before it stopped it was running very slow.. now this happened on all my skylands.. but after seperating the 2 arms and adjusting the top arm (sorry for my ignorance in part names) .. they have been running almost spot on..

I need to post pics of my explanation in the proper area.. but I don't know if anyone could answer this proffesionally without taking a look or taking the movement apart.. to diagnose a problem.. takes more than theory even from the pro's.. Ziggy commented as a doctor would on problems such as this.. " I would have to take a look at it"..

But before you get frustrated .. if your movement slows or stops .. mine had to do with the regulating arms.. it's been running fine since..

Dial

Andrew ~

The dial on the Skyland Blacksteel looks very good. No surprise, given the quality of the stainless steel version's dials. Of course we still have the sloppy lume application (not a huge deal IMO) but if that bothers you its nothing that a proper relume wouldn't fix. The bevel on the edge of the raised white numbers is slightly more pronounced than on the gen, and this causes the 1, 7 and 11 lume dots to become slightly crowded. The date window looks very accurate even though it looks to be ever so slightly wider than the gen. The date font is perfect once again (its printed in black but should apparently be gray, but you would really have to look hard to the that). The dial markings appear to be spot on as well. The hands look pretty good, the lume spot on the chrono second hand seems to be slightly larger than the gen and the color seems to be a little bit more on the orange side than the others (comments Lan?). Thankfully the manufacturer has fixed the red collars on the subdial hands that we saw on the prototype (they are now silver as they should be), but these hands seem to be ever so slightly wider than on the gen. The "half lined" subdials look to have been reproduced perfectly and look splendid!

Lani~

That is why I asked Andrew aboard !.. his attention to detail goes without saying.. to verify what A stated.. it is the metal around the lume spot on the chrono second hand that is a fraction more than the genuine .. making it appear that the lume dot is larger, and yes the colour has a bit too much orange in the red an easy fix with some red artist paint(and a steady hand like Ziggy..send it to Ziggy ) .. copy the date font.... the "tuxedo" engravings on the subdials are very well pronounced.. as the genuine..

remember the lume dot @3 is smaller as is the genuine.. the markings on the rehaut look pretty accurate .. again the colour is a small fraction off true red..

But all of these are very hard to spot unless you macro the image like we are doing... so it is not a great concern (to me anyway)

The Rehaut

Lani~

the markings on the rehaut look a fraction thinner on the rep..and the genuine has a 'dot" under the numerals.. the rep has a "dash" again not noticable unless you view the macro .. or you have Superman vision..

edit add:.. I stand corrected.. the markers below the numerals on the rehaut are in fact dash's on the genuine.. jus fatter smaller and thicker.. the rep dash is a bit longer and thinner..

Note: I will be making most of the small item comments.. for the simple fact that I have the rep in hand .. and it would not be fair to A to ask him to comment as the lighting plays a big part of the dimensions of the pushers.. bezel etc. .. but if he does comment I will edit and add them to the review..

Bezel

Lani~

120 clicks .. very well machined .. smooth rotation .. other than that we need to take a closer look..

Lani~

Ever so slight variance .. again.. only with the macro can you really tell..

The Pearl

Lani~

I cannot tell the difference.. the genuine pearls outer ring is a shade darker than the bezel.. as is the rep.

Andrew~

The pearl is very acceptable IMO, however I do think the pearl crystal is slightly larger than the one on the genuine.

Lani~

I abstained from any comment on this as I cannot tell if it's the lightning ... the angle, it seems the genuine Lumious material is more recessed ... making the pexi cover look thicker..

CG ..Crown..and Pushers

Lani~

any difference is solely due to the lighting.. the pushers sleeves are snug and tight around the pushers.. although in the pic it appears there is a space.. that is due to the different lighting than the genuine.. I cannot tell any variance..

Case Back

Lani~

Bravo !!.. the Case Back is exellent.. all the engavings an numbers are spot on, individual numbers...... except for me ending up with 101.. sounds like and is the usual rep number.. oh well..

Andrew~

I really like the idea of being able to request a personalized number. I just wonder how successfully this will be carried out though? Lan, did you request a number prior to ordering?

Lani~

all I can remember was it was late (for me) and every number I wanted (numerology wise) .. was not available .. so I jus typed in the first one that was.. ma bad.. oh well.. agree though A.. the rest of the numbers are "Cool"..

Buckle and strap.. RED FLAG

Genuine

The strap was made half a mm to wide.. at first I was afraid it was the buckle as my HK Tan strap.. ( Theo too) was ordered.. but it is the strap.. easy fix .. btw this is a newer version of the divers.. stiffer thicker than previous.. view the red area where you have to push in the rubber .. just fine sand paper to the edge.. and after sanding, wipe the sanded area with acetone to dissolve the rough look of the sand paper.. if you decide to just use this one.. will there be a updated strap ??

The new divers strap is on the bottom.. thicker and more rigid.. IMO I like the previous strap.. it is very comfortable..

Now what you have all been waiting "patiently" (LOL) for..

DLC Coat

We'll let the pics speak for themselves.. in different lighting..

Pau !

Lani~

As you can see.. diffferent lighting .. different shades of colour.. from gun metal to black..

Andrew~

I would not question the watch's authenticity because of the coating, as it looks no different than any pics of a gen that I have seen. Having said that, under certain lighting conditions, the V1 PVD looks accurate as well.

I have asked Dave123 to comment .. he has recently purchased a genuine Avenger Blacksteel.. so for comparison.. here's Dave.

Dave~

"Looking at the color and texture of the blacksteel used on the replica,it looks exact to my gen watch,especially looking at the side angle shot showing the pushers and crown,the finish of the crown and pushers are spot on and the kind of 'paint brush' looking strokes to the other areas of the side of the case are again,exact to my genuine watch,i was really surprised by that as i was expected a solid finish in the replica,i wasn't expecting that 'brush stroke' finish that the gen has,i'm amazed that they were able to copy that for the replica,i would say that the same method the gen used,must have been used on this replica version,surprising frankly.

All the red font on the dial looks again exact to my genuine,the contrast against the black looks dead on,a very accurate watch,i must say"......

Thank you Dave...

That concludes our first team review.. thanks for viewing..

special thanks to

Andreww... the Breitling section is a winner because of your efforts..

DBR.. our General Counselieri (sic)

and to all of you for making RWG.. !!

AlohaCheers

Lani..

[italiano17771]

great job guys!! cant wait for the SA BS! thanks for taking the time to do this.

[mastmampf]

Yeah, absolute great review. On my wish list (as soon as the price goes down )

Greets from Germany

Matz

[SubFrog]

Damn, now for another watch I must have. I thought I was done for a while...NOT.

[turboGUATE]

A well done collaborative job! That's the spirit! Thank you all for making it happen.

Cheers!

[rckh]

Bravo! Bravo!

One of the greatest review I ever read!

I love you Bro!

Best Regards,

Raymond

[wheaton26]

great job guys. i am glad mine is one the way! lani, what would you rate this rep out of 10 ... it looks like a solid 7 or 8 to me?

[bwhitesox]

Nice one guys but heck whats happening with these movements. I think this is a Major problem and one that should be bought to the attention of the dealers a most people wouldn't know how to open up the watch and adjust it.

[lanikai]

great job guys. i am glad mine is one the way! lani, what would you rate this rep out of 10 ... it looks like a solid 7 or 8 to me?

IMO rating a rep .. is very subjective.. everyone has their idiocincricies ... things they jus cannot tolerate.. and a lot has to do IMO again with geography .. ie. living in New York .. there are many genuines walking around. ergo the rep needs to be spot on.. in Hawaii.. well.. you can get away with flaws..

so in answer to a rather simple questions.. it's really a personal choice.. all I will say is.. it's not 1:1 but close..

bwhitesox Posted Today, 07:20 PM

Nice one guys but heck whats happening with these movements. I think this is a Major problem and one that should be bought to the attention of the dealers a most people wouldn't know how to open up the watch and adjust it.

all we can do is alert the dealers to pass on to the makers... but it's good to "learn" .. I'll post a question in the proper section and get some pics up.. it's as easy as opening the case..

@Raymond.. thanks man.. .. good to see U .. ma mannnn

[rckh]

Nice one guys but heck whats happening with these movements. I think this is a Major problem and one that should be bought to the attention of the dealers a most people wouldn't know how to open up the watch and adjust it.

That's why I only buy ETA7750........

Best Regards,

Raymond

[jeff g]

Semi brilliant review, I must say.

I think it was about a Brietling..but who cares.

Nice job boys.

This is THE format of the future.

The reviews/critiqes on RWG are the BEST of any watch forum...gen..or rep!!!!!

THANK YOU!!!!!

[Samurai]

Excellent review Lani and everyone else......a job very well done! Thanks a lot!

I had my SS Skyland die on me.....and if the problem persists with the BlackSteel....i'll stay away from it till it's fixed.

Cheers

[phaedo]

Thanks for the time and effort guys, it is this sort of thing that keeps me here with the reps!

[cornerstone]

This is PHENOMENAL!! Thanks guys - absolutely brilliant!

[kingkaiser]

Brilliant review! Not generally a brietling fan, but this one is just freaking gorgeous!

In all fairness though, we need wristshots on normal 6-7 inch wrists to judge if this would look freakish large for most of us. A goddamned u-boat would probably look dimutive wrapped around even a vein on Lani's forearm!

[lanikai]

Brilliant review! Not generally a brietling fan, but this one is just freaking gorgeous!

In all fairness though, we need wristshots on normal 6-7 inch wrists to judge if this would look freakish large for most of us. A goddamned u-boat would probably look dimutive wrapped around even a vein on Lani's forearm!

First .. thank you .. ALL

my wrist measures 7" to 7.5" depending... the forearm is different

[Rolexman]

SUPERB review. I like the whole group approach. I would have bought this rep in a heart beat but as I am really anal about scratches and I'm always polishing my reps I didn't. This baby is non-polishable or brushable....

[CY0811]

Great review!

[promotersf]

I'm about to pull the trigger myself with an IWC 5002, haven't picked up any reps in awhile. If the build quality is good, i'm emailing angus

dave

[MADRED7]

GUYs.....thank you all for your participation in this cool review. I am amazed by the quality of the written review....while reading I felt looking at a good show of amazing discovery (and I mean that in a very positive way).

I love this forum for what it is....a great melting-pot, a good source and a true info-pool for my beloved hobby.

My Skyland is on its way to me....my new strap must hit my doorsteps this week....I will post pics and possibly do a side-by-side review with a gen (my best friend has got a gen and when I hand him his new strap we will do pics!)

So now I am more than convinced to have done the right thing....and the price of the watch was not bad as expected.

Cheers gentlemen.....Lani, will show-off soon with my new baby

Theo

[babola]

Nice one...thanks for the detailed review.

babola

[Mickey Padge]

Nice collaboration and top review, thanks very much for taking the time

[Toadtorrent]

Wow...go to bed early and wake up to this...what a treat!

I know what I'm doing at work today...reading this beauty in full. Cheers to the Team...and a great idea for collaborative work!

[Watchmeister]

Gentlemen-

Fabulous review. The collaborative effort was well worth it. And yes, it is now at the top of my must have list.

[andreww]

Got to read the completed review this morning on the train, as I'd only seen bits and pieces in PMs. I want to thank Lan who came up with the idea, and quarterbacked the whole process. I know how important it was to get this out before anybody else posted pics, so there was a lot of pre-production, and then a real rush to get it completed quickly once the watch arrived. Because of Lan's time zone, it allowed us to work on this 24 hrs a day.

Great job Lan, and thanks to DBR and Dave123 as well!