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Daytona today

Here is the MBK 5513/1680 lowdown... All the later MBK 5513/1680 cases I've had experience with were very close to a genuine 1680 case internally except for the dial window and dial seat sizes. MBK 5512/13/1680 -- The dial seat and dial window are cut for a 26mm 5513 spec dial and the inside of the case is spaced for an Eta 2836. Dial seat = the flat area inside the case where the dial mounts. Dial window = the opening in the front of the case where the dial shows. A genuine 1520/70 and 26mm genuine spec 5512/13 dial will not work properly because the stem will be too far to the front of the case. A genuine 1570/1575 date movement and 26.5mm genuine spec 1680 dial will work if the shoulder on the dial seat inside the case is enlarged from approximately 26.2mm to 26.7mm AND the dial window is enlarged slightly to expose more of the dial and allow more of the minute markers to show. The stem lines up Ok with this combination. You could cut the OD of an oem spec 1680 dial down to 26.0mm but it will probably cause the markers to be partially covered up (depending on each particular dial). If you want to go with an MBK case, rolex 1520/70 and 5512/13 dial...you will need to use a 1570/75 date movement with all the date works removed and the date wheel spacer still in place or a no date movement with a date wheel spacer, 1570/75 center wheel, canon pinion, and hour wheel. Why? Because the rolex 1520/70 no date movements are too thin to be used as is in an MBK case. If you use rolex type case screws, they usually have to be the razor edge type and it may still be hard to turn the movement inside the case because the screws may bind in the 'screw groove' cut in the case so you may have to use case clamps and screws. Turning a movement/dial inside the case (especially one that is a tight fit) can scratch paint off the dial. I sometimes use case clamps and screws in MBK cases so I do not have to move the movement/dial back and forth in the case to r/r the movement. Case clamps work as just good and do not leave marks inside the 'screw groove' in the case caused by running the screw head out against the wall of the 'screw groove' to hold the movement tight in the case. If you plan to use an MBK 5513/1680 case with a genuine rolex 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial, you need to have the dial seat and dial window cut. The dial window will work as is but it is a little bit too small for a 26.5mm 1680 dial and will scratch the minute markers and maybe the swiss T 25 at the bottom of the dial. This is why the outside diameter of the 1680 dials are roughly ground down to fit inside the shoulder cut in the dial seat on MBK 1680 watches...the dials were originally 26.5mm or so and they do a quickie grind job on them to reduce the od to fit inside the shoulder in the dial seat. Catch 22...if you enlarge the diameter of the dial window very much you will cut into the angle in the reflector aka 'rehaut'. I cut about .5mm total at a 90 degree angle to the front of the watch, not at an angle to match the reflector. After enlarging the dial window I finished the reflector with sandpaper while spinning the case in the lathe and you will never notice it has been enlarged. It is also a good idea to lightly sand the dial seat with 600 or 1000 sandpaper so the rough surface will not scratch the dial when turning the movement in the case. I doubt pictures would help much because anyone who can do the work can immediately see what needs to be done after measuring the dial, dial seat and dial window. In reality the MBK cases are Eta 2836 with 26mm dial or 1570/75 with 26.5mm dial cases. For 1520/70 and 26mm 5513 dials, go with a Yuki etc case to get by without any modifications. Note 5-30-16...I bought an MBW '5512' timehead (no bracelet) from an RWG member (easy deal!) a while back but the watch came with a thicker 1665 SD bezel assembly. Counting the cost of the watch plus a new bezel assembly, I probably would have been better off buying a Yuki case for an extra $150/$200. It had an Asian etaclone 2836 and a pretty good dial. It seems that a few 5512/13/1680 from this last batch came with SD bezels and you will not know until it arrives. So...imho, the bottom line for an MBW case for a 1680 project using a rolex 1570/75 vs a Yuki case would be 60/40 in favor of the Yuki case for these reasons: 1...Yuki case is oem spec. 2...You get the correct bezel. 3...The Yuki case needs no modification. 4...The Yuki case has proper letters and numbers. Downside...no dial or movement. MBW disadvantages when using it for a 1680 with 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial...if you count the cost of having an MBW case modified to accept a 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial, you will probably need to spend an additional $50 to $100 and if it has the wrong bezel you are out an additional $50 to $100. Upside...lower buy-in and a movement/dial combo left over to sell. MBW watch vs Yuki case for Eta movement project...imho 60/40 for the MBW case only if it has the correct bezel and a good dial. But here's the catch...for a 5512/13 you probably need to put an Eta 2846 or something similar in it for a slower beat rate and the MBW dial might not be up to snuff. Add the cost of a 2846 etc and a dial and you are back in Yuki case $$ territory. MBW watch vs Yuki case for a 1680 project using a rolex 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial...Go for the Yuki unless you get a real deal on an MBK watch with the correct bezel and a good movement and dial to sell to help pay for the modifications to the case. DW 5513 and 1680 cases... These are all really 1680 spec cases (more or less) so if you have one with 5513 stamped on it, a 1520 and 26mm 5513 dial will mount up in the case but the dial is a bit too small for the dial window and will also be too far from the dial seat. What you end up with is a 26mm dial in a 26mm dial window with the dial mounted about .8mm below the dial seat and nothing holding the dial in place except the dial screws. I did make a very thin spacer out of aluminum to fill in the space on one DW '5513' but it took a long time to make the spacer in a lathe because it was so thin and flimsy. I had to finish it up in an old 8mm WW type 'bezel chuck' made in the 1920s. WW = regular watchmaker lathe. 'Bezel chuck' = a chuck that looks like a steel wheel with concentric grooves cut in it. It will expand or contract a few mm to accommodate small, thin bezel rings etc. DW cases are a low $$ alternative to expensive 'genspec cases' but you will need a genspec bezel kit, crystal, tube, crown etc. Also...as I have mentioned many times before, the DW cases have rounded case sides like a DJ and not flat like a submariner. They could be sanded flat on a disc grinder or by hand but it would take a lot of careful work. One good thing about the rounded case sides is they make the watch look like an old 'high mileage' example with a storied history after they get sufficiently scuffed up. I have seen a few genuine 1680/5512/13 with the case sides rounded from years of wear and numerous polish jobs so there are genuine examples with rounded case sides in circulation. 3-23-21: Yuki, DW (David Wong), and MBW/MBK cases are no longer available so now it is Ruby, Phong and a few others selling cases with Ruby's probably being less expensive. Once in a while one of the Yuki, MBW/MBK, DW cases may show up for sale here but not often. Note 2-26-16...I tried a genuine 7mm crown on an MBK 5512 I got last week and it will not work because the case tube in the MBK case is not oem spec and the post on the genuine crown will not go into the MBK case tube...the hole in the tube is too small. The MBK tube is made to have an O ring down low outside and the crown does have the skirt machined at the bottom for O ring clearance but of course none of it is oem spec. On my other MBK cases, I removed the case tubes as soon as I worked on them and installed aftmkt oem spec case tubes (did not try any genuine oem crowns) and the oem spec case tubes screwed right in but iirc the relief in the case for the case tube base gasket (where the tube contacts the case) was not oem spec and I had to use an aftmkt gasket of some sort. The MBK crown will not screw down onto an oem spec case tube either because the MBK crown threads are too small. The MBK tube and crown look like the same case tube and crown set that came on some of my DW cases. The MBK case tube is made like an old 8mm tube except for the size. Note 10-6-16...IF the case neck is oem spec 28.2mm and IF you need a new bezel assembly...here is what I found (usually) works: GS PA 462-66 crystal and ST/Clark etc bezel kit IF the ID of the inner bezel is 30.2mm. The 28.2mm case neck and 30.2mm inner bezel will not crack the crystal when pressing it on because it is not a real tight fit on the crystal while at the same time the crystal will not pop off or leak in day to day service (although I have not tested one below about 5 atm/70 psi). GS crystals are precision made and always the same spec unlike much of the inconsistent junk scattered all over the internet. The PA 462-66 is a domed crystal that has the sidewall coming straight up about 1.7 to 2.0mm above the bezel insert. You also have to make sure the bezel washer does not cause the rotating bezel to bind. The washer needs to fit over the small lip on the inner bezel (if there is one, it is there to keep the sharp washer away from the crystal) while not sticking out over the outer edge of the inner bezel or it will bind the rotating bezel. Many (if not most) aftmkt bezel washers are out of spec in my experience. I have tried this same setup with a GS PA 462-67 crystal and the inner bezel was too tight. Also measured a couple MBK inner bezels and they were both 30.15mm id...not much difference but they can be pretty tight with the GS PA 462-66 crystal. Matter of fact, I broke a new PA 462-66 with a MBK inner bezel on an MBK case a few days ago. It leaked and I had to look down through the outer edge of the crystal with a 10x loupe under bright light to see the hairline cracks. I found that ST/Clark rotating bezels will accept oem spec inserts and they snap in correctly...many aftmkt inserts and insert seats in bezels are out of spec. More DW case info: DW 55xx case review... - The Rolex Area - RWG

Starting my first one?

But if I understand, even the new cartel needs a good deal of shaping to be right. The body/lugs need slimming, and is missing a beveled edge. The crown guards are still not perfect, and there are probably other issues as well. Asking the source to fix this will not work. And 1200 dollar phongs are not consistant. We must make a perfect copy. We landed men on the moon half a century ago. This is ridiculous if we can't figure this out.

Blue Pelagos today

Superocean Abyss on gen strap. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ok guys, sort me out, what do you think about this v7?

Changed up to vintage and enjoying this wonderful Liga Privada T52. A great smoke!

I will say that I have brought a lot of cases from both Phong and his son Jensen. I'm not talking 2 or 3. I have been very happy on them all but one. But out being retired if someone is willing to point me in the direction of how I can get my hands on the machinery to make cases. I am more than happy to learn how to make them. I did did attempt to have them make me a 16710 case. Phong wants me to buy 10 and supply my real 16710 case that he would return to me. His is son was a lot more reasonable. He wanted me to send him my real one and in return I would get my real one back and I would get a discount on the 5 I had to order. If i knew how to do it I would make them myself. Would love to learn. He wanted my watch and 1/2 of the $. To me that pissed me off. I was paying and giving him what he needed to make a case. All he heads are the contacts. Nothing out of his pocket. Then he wants to charge 1450 a case. I brought my real case complete with crystal and bezel and back for $1800. That aside. They by far make the best copy for a 16800 16610 5513 1680. Ok they might need a little more case work to be perfect but every thing real Rolex fits like it was made for it and it seals. I'm on a cruise right now and took my 16800 driving. I hit 100 feet easy on the dive and watch is holding like a charm. I also do have to say that a TC case is an amazing 16610 case for the money. I have comparison pics over at RWI. Having them both in front of me, bare, nothing on them yet you can see the quality of the phong case. Machine markings, sharpness. But for the $500 -$700 difference you can make it nicer than a phong. By by far the best copy 16610 case I have ever seen in this world is a TC case worked up. I sold it out of laziness because i didn't want to change the phong case. As as far as using a TC case for a 16800. It won't work. You can make a old 16610. But the rehaut is completely different on the 16800 and the 16610. Crystal are the same but the depth isn't. So the date looks larger on a 16800. Plus you can't stick a 3035 in a TC case. Being on a cruise I can't upload pics of a 16610 and 16800 rehaut. But it is very noticeable how different they are. TC makes an amazing case for the money. But when all is said and done at the end of the day a phong case is the way I go. I have stop dealing with dad and I just deal with Jensen. But after the whole 16710 I think I am going to be looking for a new case maker or just start doing them myself or just buy real. I have seen them on eBay for $1800- $2500 and they are real. Why would I pay $1450 for a fake? Especially when I only need 2.

Wow! thats some collection of submariners, enjoy! Oh and thanks for the technical explanation. Now I understand