automatico

"Is this 1520 or 1530?" I have never seen a serial number on a 1520, ...but I have not seen them all. Identification of Rolex Calibres 1520 - 1580 (superlativetime.com) Rolex Caliber 1520 & 1530 - 1st Movements Created Entirely In-House (beckertime.com)

The part number is 6953 if you are referring to the two tiny screws that hold the crown wheel cap down. You might find a similar screw in other brands of Swiss movements, but it may need to be shortened and/or polished. Here is one but going by the price, they are very proud of it: Rolex 1030 6953 Crown Wheel Screw Genuine Watch Part (1 Screw) | eBay Here is another one for $10USD but they will stab you with shipping charges etc. Rolex® 1030 Crown Wheel Screw (jewelerssupplies.com)

Air King needing oem parts: This used to be a fairly simple fix and I hate to say it but a 1530 'balance complete' plus a few more parts, labor etc. can easily end up being $1 to $2 thousand dollars (or more) at today's insane prices. To make matters worse, a good 1530 balance is getting hard to find. I have been down this road a few times back when parts cost about one fourth of what they are today, it still cost quite a bit with only $$ spent for parts as we had a Rolex parts account back then and my labor is free. One option is to buy a ratty watch with a good 1530 movement but after having the movement serviced, you may still be upside down in $$ spent vs the current value of the watch. I'm afraid there is not much good news on a project like this. Kudos to the original poster on another forum. (a few sentences/words not pertaining to your repair have been removed) 6-8-23 The 1530 and the 1520 movements have a large number of identical parts and it is often difficult to know how a movement started out as a lot of parts get swapped during servicing over the last 60 years or so. There were many versions of each movement produced as technical improvements were introduced during the manufacturing period, and also some markets had movements made with different jewel counts. As stated above, the earlier 1530 movement had a frequency of 18,000 beats per hour whereas the later 1520 movement had a frequency of 19,800 beats per hour. The two balance assemblies are different as the 1530 had a Brequet overcoil and Microstella adjustment whereas the 1520, intended to be a cheaper movement, had a flat hairspring and a stick type regulator. The rest of the movement is virtually identical as only the third wheel was changed to accommodate the different beat rate. Now comes the interesting part; you can fit a 1520 (19,800 beat) balance assembly into a 1530 movement designed for the 18,000 beat balance, and this has been a common modification by watchmakers unable to repair or source a 1530 balance. If you change the third wheel for one geared for a 1520 balance frequency of 19,800 beats per hour all will be well and the movement can be regulated. If however, a 1520 balance assembly is put in and the original 1530 third wheel is kept in the train the movement will run 10% fast. Whatever the cause, a skilled watchmaker with experience of these two movements should be able to sort it out and if there are none local to the OP... Communication by phone or email when trying to explain these types of issues is generally not easy, and it is far better to take the watch to someone you trust, tell them the symptoms and any other information you might have about its service history and let them examine it, disassemble it and then produce an estimate or quote based on what they find. This reply also posted here: Can you fix a 1530 FRANKIN rolex - Modded - Frankens - Customs - RWG

Also posted this reply in the thread below: ETA or ? to replace Rolex Movement - The Rolex Area - RWG This used to be a fairly simple fix and I hate to say it but a 1530 'balance complete' plus a few more parts, labor etc. can easily end up being $1 to $2 thousand dollars (or more) at today's insane prices. To make matters worse, a good 1530 balance is getting hard to find. I have been down this road a few times back when parts cost about one fourth of what they are today, it still cost quite a bit with only $$ spent for parts as we had a Rolex parts account back then and my labor is free. One option is to buy a ratty watch with a good 1530 movement but after having the movement serviced, you may still be upside down in $$ spent vs the current value of the watch. I'm afraid there is not much good news on a project like this. Kudos to the original poster on another forum. (a few sentences/words not pertaining to your repair have been removed) 6-8-23 The 1530 and the 1520 movements have a large number of identical parts and it is often difficult to know how a movement started out as a lot of parts get swapped during servicing over the last 60 years or so. There were many versions of each movement produced as technical improvements were introduced during the manufacturing period, and also some markets had movements made with different jewel counts. As stated above, the earlier 1530 movement had a frequency of 18,000 beats per hour whereas the later 1520 movement had a frequency of 19,800 beats per hour. The two balance assemblies are different as the 1530 had a Brequet overcoil and Microstella adjustment whereas the 1520, intended to be a cheaper movement, had a flat hairspring and a stick type regulator. The rest of the movement is virtually identical as only the third wheel was changed to accommodate the different beat rate. Now comes the interesting part; you can fit a 1520 (19,800 beat) balance assembly into a 1530 movement designed for the 18,000 beat balance, and this has been a common modification by watchmakers unable to repair or source a 1530 balance. If you change the third wheel for one geared for a 1520 balance frequency of 19,800 beats per hour all will be well and the movement can be regulated. If however, a 1520 balance assembly is put in and the original 1530 third wheel is kept in the train the movement will run 10% fast. Whatever the cause, a skilled watchmaker with experience of these two movements should be able to sort it out and if there are none local to the OP... Communication by phone or email when trying to explain these types of issues is generally not easy, and it is far better to take the watch to someone you trust, tell them the symptoms and any other information you might have about its service history and let them examine it, disassemble it and then produce an estimate or quote based on what they find.

Swiss and etaclone 2824 movements have hands mounted close to the dial making the minute and sometimes the sweep second hand hit the hour markers. The fix is a 'hand height kit'... HAND HEIGHT KIT FOR MOVEMENT ETA 2824-2: HH1, HH2, HH3, HH4, HH5, HH6 | eBay Sometimes there is a catch hidden in this fix because on some watches, the sweep second hand will rub a flat sapphire crystal. The fix for this is to use a taller crystal gasket made for a 16610 submariner...on 36mm DJ cases. Rolex 16610 and 162xx DJ use the same crystal, only the gasket is different. I am not familiar with oversize DJ 41 etc.

To the Seiko above. NOS MBK watches... The '5513' top left is from the 2016 'Rolexfinder' sale through a member, still in new condition. The empty '5513' case with a '5512' case back is also from the 2016 'Rolexfinder' sale, it had an etaclone 2836 that I removed to be swapped for a nos slower beat ETA sooner or later. It came from a member in 2017 and is in new condition. Right side are two nos '1680' with Swiss 2836 from Narikaa in 2012. Bracelets for them are stored elsewhere. Two with solid mid links and two with hollow mid links. Pic above was taken today. Wristie... MBK '5512' that I wear now and then, purchased in new condition (without bracelet) from a member in 2017*, now with a nos 2879 and Mary 'fold-oyster'. I have posted it a few times before and it originally came from the 'Rolexfinder' sale. It is a good runner, but auto-winding is not as efficient as later 28xx movements. *Correction... got it February 2016. 8-1-23 The best one (imho): DW case with very good numbers/letters, Rolex no hack 1575, original Lemrich Mk1 dial, original date wheel, genuine crown etc. Crown guards need a little attention, wrong bez insert pip etc. White 1680 Original and Service Dials - Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum 'Rolexfinder' thread from 2016: (SALES CLOSED) Vintage Rolex 5512 5513 5514 1680 (Red or White) - Stock watches - RWG Original pic of '5512'.: Rolex Wristies thread - Page 139 - The Rolex Area - RWG

(this forum) "...is the best one for people and knowledge." I agree. (for me) The problem seems to be there is hardly anything new being posted on the forum, most of the traffic is probably made up of people looking at past articles or posting pictures. Not many technical or 'how to' articles are being posted now. Maybe much of this is caused by the arrival of the 'perfect replica' because now buyers can just order what they want and not have to source parts or ask questions about how to put a watch together. This pertains mostly to modern watches because vintage (Rolex) ready-to-wear replicas are not much better now than they were 15 or 20 years ago (except maybe for dial quality), and many may end up being projects. Imho. One big problem with the current crop of 'perfect replicas' (Rolex, Omega, AP etc.) is there are not many movement parts available, and very few people willing to work on them. My guess is there may be quite a few 'perfect replicas' being repaired with a Swiss ETA , Asian etaclone, Miyota etc. sooner or later so the forum may get busier. Imho again.

From the 'net, books, experience, and imagination. Many are paraphrased from their original wording. Feel free to add to it. "Watch repair is a lifetime learning experience with no simple quick rules that explain everything." Miyota was included in the 1991 Guinness Book of World Records for selling a hefty total of 1.7 billion movements, for just the quartz Calibre 2035 alone. First produced in 1982 and still in production with several billion units made 40 years later. Probably the most successful quartz watch movement in history, and decent quality. It's only as cheap as it is because they've made so many! Wrist watches that use Tritium to create glow in the dark features contain about 80 MBq of Tritium. Tritium's half-life is about a dozen years. Am I wrong, but is the 'Fat Lady' called Fat Lady because it’s thicker? Yes, it is 12mm instead of 11.8mm on the 16710. Identifying a genuine 7206 or 6636 Oyster rivet bracelet - GMT Forum VRF etc... "Apparently, sometime around 1954, Rolex reached the serial number 999,999 and restarted with 10,000 (possibly due to time constraints, and the ease of utilizing their existing tooling) which resulted in serial numbers ranging from 10,000 to 999,999, being assigned to their watches, twice... confusing lots of people in the process, wondering how their watch was made 25 years before it was first released." "End Links with a "B" are (sometimes) for watches, without holes all the way through their lugs. So if you wanted to put an old Jubilee, on a newer watch that doesn't have holes all the way through the lugs, then you better have ordered end links with 'B' at the end, and confirm that it has notches for the bracelet tool, or that bracelet is never coming off that watch again, without being damaged." "Rolex Swiss rivet 7206 bracelet was used throughout the 1950s (and possibly earlier) and was discontinued with the introduction of the 9315 bracelet (latest known clasp date stamp for the 7206 is 1969.) These early bracelets did not have the 7206 stamped on the last link until around 1963. Prior to 1963, the 7206 bracelet and the 6636 stretch (or expansion) rivet link Oyster bracelets did not have bracelet stampings to identify them. The bracelets, if correct, should contain 12 links, which is depicted in the factory Rolex parts catalog photo below. (The 7206 and 6636 are basically the same bracelet except the links on the 6636 have internal springs that allow they to stretch or expand.)" ETA vs. Sellita ETA vs. Sellita (professionalwatches.com) TURF was on the internet from 1998 to 2001. Description: Rolex Stainless Steel USA Jubilee Bracelet for 20mm Lug Width Models... Manufactured: most likely in the 1960-70s with no date stamp or way to reference(?) Band Width: Compatible with vintage and modern Rolex models with 20mm lug width Number of links: 21 links total (11 on the longer/crown side and 10 on the shorter side) End links: Missing Reference 555 (straight design) Compatibility: Please note that the following compatibility list includes general production years for each model. The 555 end links may have been used for only a portion of these years, but this is what I have: Datejust 1601 (late 1950s-1970s) and 1603 (1960s-1970s) Air-King 5500 (1957-1989), 14000 (1989-2000), and 14010 (1989-2000) Oyster Perpetual 1002, 1005, 1007, 1024 (all 1960s-1970s), 1500, and 1501 (both 1960s-1970s) Explorer 1016 (1963-1989) and 5500 (1966-1989) Submariner 5512 (1959-1978) and early versions of 5513 (1962-1989) GMT-Master 1675 (1959-1980) 3-14-2022...A watchmaker in Dallas, TX heard that there are approximately 20-30 independents left (in the USA) with ROLEX parts accounts, he is one of them. (VRF) Red Subs came with different date wheel colors/surfaces - as a guess of the periods: "off-white" versions in 1969 and probably 1970, matte (including very slightly brushed, only visible under the loupe) silver versions in about 1970 to 1973, strikingly brushed silver versions from 1973 onwards. Grading Used Vintage Watches: "Untouched" = Like sold by Rolex, unpolished; a shorten bracelet or a replaced strap are acceptable. In regard to the age of a watch, a reasonable low-key service (cleaning, oiling, replacing gaskets) might be acceptable as well - however, keep in mind that the case back might show watchmaker marks and the movement patina be gone "Fully Original" = Configuration/parts correct for the model and year (like it might have got sold by Rolex), all parts genuine and unaltered (no relume, no case recut); parts might have got replaced by the same or an alternative but also correct version; might be polished. You might also accept service parts as original (in the meaning of mounted by Rolex) if they're documented in Rolex service papers. "Authentic" or "Genuine" = Any model-conform configuration (including service parts, and I'd also accept a wrong but genuine bracelet), all parts genuine; might be polished/relumed/recut. Traser and Luminox are not the same company. Traser is the sole manufacturer of trigalight tritium tubes that are used by Luminox and a few other watch brands. In regards of the similarity of models, this has a reason that goes back to the late 80s. Traser was supplied the US army with watches, Traser was approached by the gentlemen who founded Luminox to supply them with watches with a different label, so back then Traser did not only supply the tritium tubes, but actually manufactured complete watches as an OEM supplier for Luminox, after this model both companies went separate routes, but Traser continued to supply Luminox with trigalights. Anonymous...4-4-11...I took my father's Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust (from late 60s) for Restoration at Toronto Rolex Centre. They have given me an estimate of approx. $2200 for a complete restoration (includes servicing, new dial & hands and a new bracelet). The 25/26 jewel 1520 used in the 5513 Sub, Air King etc is exactly the same as the 17 jewel model except for jewels in the reverser pivots and jewels in the movement plate for the intermediate wheel of the autowind assembly. The same balance assembly with flat hairspring is used in both. The chronometer grade 1570 is a bit different besides the jewel count as it has a different pallet fork, escape wheel and balance assembly with Breguet type hairspring. Jewels can be installed in place of bushings in the reverser pivots of 17 jewel models but they will not accept the same jewels as used in the 25/26 jewel movements but must use special order jewels with a larger OD. If a watch is worn for a long time with worn reverser bushings, the reversers will run partly out of mesh and wear the red anodized finish and wheel teeth. The intermediate wheel can also run partly out of mesh if the intermediate wheel bushings wear and this will sometimes result in worn or broken teeth on the intermediate wheel. You can tell when the bushings on the intermediate wheel are going south by looking closely at the reversers for swirl marks caused by the intermediate wheel running out of true. Intermediate wheel bushings can also be replaced with jewels so it is a good idea to replace them all at once. The bushings tend to wear out on the autowind reverser pivots if they run dry or get dirty and it is better to replace worn bushings with jewels, not new bushings. Intermediate wheel bushings will sometimes show a lot of wear if the mainspring bridle does not slip freely against the mainspring barrel wall when fully wound. When the MS grease dries out, the MS bridle (friction slip clutch) will not slip easily against the barrel wall under full wind and all the winding rotor power ends up at the intermediate wheel and can break teeth off and/or elongate the hole in the bushings, especially if worn during conditions where vigorous activities cause high rotor inertia. This sometimes causes balance "knock" as well as wear or damage on various autowinding parts. (The intermediate wheel transfers power from the autowind assembly to the mainspring and has a relatively heavy load on it.) Another problem with all 1530 base movements (1570 etc) is that the mainspring barrel runs in the bare plate on the dial side...no bushing or jewel, (I guess they were trying to save 30 cents) The lowly Eta 2824 even has a jewel at this location and Rolex finally put a bushing at this location on the 3035 when it came out because they had to...the faster beat movement makes more MS barrel revolutions per day. If the dial side MS arbor hole on any 1530 base movement runs dry long enough it will wear the hole in the plate out of round causing the MS barrel to drag on the plate. This gives the same symptoms as a dirty movement or weak MS...low running reserve etc. It looks like the plate is probably too thin to install a jewel at this location if the hole wears out but a bushing might work if you can locate the exact center of the original hole. An elongated hole can be closed up a bit with a punch but this is not good practice. Auto weight axles wear out and usually the first sign is when you can hear the rotor rattling when you shake the watch up and down a couple inches with the dial pointing up or down. They all rattle a little bit but a loose axle knocks louder so listen to one known to have a good axle and gib (rotor clip) first for comparison. Another check for worn rotor axles and/or broken rotor axle jewels is to remove the caseback and examinine the movement plate for signs of the winding rotor rubbing the plate. They all probably have the rotor hit the top plate now and then but when the axle gets worn out or a jewel breaks, the wear will be easy to spot. The fix is a new rotor axle and gib along with one or both jewels if needed. I will not get into proper rotor axle removal but if some hack simply drives it out of the weight without cutting the rivet down they can damage the hole in the weight and the new axle will not be a proper fit. Rotor bridges bear the movement model number on all 15 series movements and they are all interchangeable. It's entirely possible to see a 1530 with a 1570 rotor bridge, or a 1520 with a 1555 rotor bridge, or any other On cal. 1575 date movements, a 1570 rotor bridge is correct. The "D" prefix in serial numbers of 15 series movements indicates that the movement was equipped with a date mechanism (the 1575 is the "date" version of the 1570). "President" day/date models (1555, 1556, etc.), have movements with serial numbers that begin with "DD," which means day/date. Chronometer movements intended for standard Oyster Perpetuals, etc., which did not have dates have serial numbers with no letter prefixes. Introduction dates: 1530...1957 1565...1959 1565 GMT...1962 1520...1963 1580 (Milgauss)...1963 1525...1965 1560...1965 1570...1965 1575/1575 GMT...1965 1971 USA Rolex list prices... 1655 - US$515 1675 - US$525 1019 - US$425 5513 - US$445 5512 - US$525 1665 - US$625 6263 - US$580 6694 - US$275 1016 - US$425 1680 - US$565 COSC certification is less than US$4.00 (four dollars) per movement tested... (The World of Watches, Ebner Publishing International, New York, 2005,p.29). COSC is a non-profit organization. I was surprised to read this as COSC certification involves a long process (very extensively described by Trueb in his book), and usually adds around $200-$300 to the cost of a watch. (Example...Among 750T Pros, the DP & CC cost $1349, the COSC $1590). Some watches, called chronometers (not to be confused with chronographs) contain movements that have passed testing by the Contrôle Officiel Suisse de Chronomètres (COSC), an agency of the Swiss government. Rolex sends 600,000+ through each year, Omega about 100,000+, TAG Heuer about 20,000+, and the other manufacturers only a couple thousand or fewer, each. So, if you think that COSC certification and the chronometer designation is mainly a marketing device used by some mid-priced high-volume manufacturers, you won't be far wrong. Even more cynically, I think that "chronometer" is basically a Rolex thing, and only those manufacturers who need to sell their watches head-to-head with Rolex care about it, and only on particular models. For example, Breitling certifies their all-gold models, which might compete with a gold Rolex Yachtmaster, but not their steel watches. The top-tier manufacturers, such as Audemars Piguet, IWC, Jaeger-Le Coultre, Lange, and Patek Philippe pay almost no attention to the COSC at all. February 2011...There's a general feeling on the various watch forums that Rolex will maintain a full parts inventory for their watches for a 30 year time period. To date Rolex has pulled 312 parts accts in the CONUS. BOLO Fake Tudor subs...serial number 737738, inner case back stamped IV 68. Dial, Case, Insert, and hands not genuine. 16610 13mm thick...16600 14.65mm thick, 16610 Weight 135G 16600 147g. Rest of case dimension roughly the same except SD dial is slightly smaller than sub and SD is bezel is 1mm wider. 16610 13mm thick...16600 14.65mm thick, 16610 Weight 135G 16600 147g. Rest of case dimension roughly the same except SD dial is slightly smaller than sub and SD is bezel is 1mm wider. Weight 14060 - 127 grams 16610 - 135 grams 16613 - 148 grams 16618 - 175 grams 1680 - 117 grams Requirements for minimum thicknesses for watch cases in the various materials. All require not less than 10 karat fineness: Gold filled - thickness throughout of not less than three one-thousandths of an inch. This equates to not less than 76 micron in thickness, (approximately the thickness of a sheet of photocopy paper). Rolled gold plate - thickness throughout of not less than one and one-half one thousandths of an inch. This equates to not less than 38 micron in thickness. Gold electroplate - 20 micron is considered heavy for modern electroplating, and most plating is 10 or 5 micron...or less. V72 hand sizes Hour 1.60 min 1.09 center chrono 0.25 sub-second 0.23 sub-minutes 0.25 sub-hours 0.28 V7734/6 Hour 1.45 min 0.95 center chrono 0.30 sub-second 0.20 sub-minutes 0.30 sub-hours 0.21 T = thickness SH = stem height ETA 2824-2, T: 4.60 mm, SH: 1.80 mm (Hands 90/150/25) ETA 2892A2, T: 3.60 mm, SH: 1.50 mm ETA 2801-2, T: 3.35 mm, SH: 1.80 mm ETA 2804-2, T: 3.35 mm, SH: 1.80 mm ETA 2821-1, T: 4.60 mm, SH: 1.80 mm ETA 2836-2, T: 5.05 mm, SH: 2.25 mm ETA 2842, T: 5.05 mm, SH: 2.25 mm ETA 2846, T: 5.05 mm, SH: 2.25 mm ETA 2850, T: 4.05 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2851, T: 4.05 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2852, T: 4.05 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2853, T: 4.05 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2858, T: 4.05 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2859, T: 4.05 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2870, T: 5.30 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2871, T: 5.30 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2872, T: 5.30 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2873, T: 5.30 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2878, T: 5.30 mm, SH: 2.50 mm ETA 2879, T: 5.30 mm, SH: 2.50 mm Rolex watches from 70's used 316L stainless... old Rolex from 60's or before used 304L stainless 316L (similar to 304L) but has 2-3% more molybdenum added, which provides more corrosion resistance than 304L then in mid 1980 switch to 904L, which contains more nickel and is more expensive. 1016 springbar p/n...23-9293 1680 springbar p/n...23-9291 5512/13 Bezel retaining ring pn 319-5512 Crystal retaining ring part numbers... 1675 = 319-1675 5513 = 319-5513 I could not see into the future. Here is Proof : From October 2012... Rolex will no longer allow ADs or independents to install bezels or bracelets. Any bracelet purchase/replacement, dial replacement and/or bezel replacements are to be done by an official RSC repair depot only. AD's are instructed to send the watches to RSC at the AD's expense for the work. Inserts, crystals, hands are still ok to be installed at the AD. AD's and independents are now supposed to keep records of the serial #'s for the watches that the hands are replaced on. Hands are order only...none for stock. Hands are to be ordered only after supplying the case reference number and serial number of the watch they are to be installed on. This info comes from two different sources. An AD and an independent. The independent was able to get hands for a 1680 but the 1680 is now on file with RSC as having the hands replaced. To get a spare bezel, you would have to take the 1680 to an AD who would send it to RSC for bezel replacement. The quote for bezel insert replacement came in at $150. It is much easier to get parts from Rolex AD's and independents everywhere except the USA. Some places are harder than others...easiest are UK, Germany, and Australia. It is common to see parts from sellers located in these countries on eBay etc. They are able to turn a high profit on harder to find items. Some items are not that much more expensive than if you bought them in the AD/rwc repair network although in the network you lose the originals. Take a 1680 service dial...you can sell a service dial on the internet for around $500. Rolex charges $400 in the US and keeps the original (that may be worth more than the replacement). Hands, typically will run around $150 on eBay etc and Rolex charges around $100 and keeps the originals. Inserts typically cost $100 exchange on average from an AD. New bracelets on the black market run around $1000-1200 and from an AD around $900-1000 exchange for the older 93150 for example. Harder to find parts will have a significantly larger markup such as LV inserts, dials, hands, etc. as these are now exchange only. Rolex USA changed things near the beginning of the year that made it even harder. I doubt any of this is still valid in 2023. Ha! From 2013... There are quite a few 1575 around for sale but just about all sooner or later will need c/o at least. I figure a fair price for a complete used replacement movement to be $700 to $1000 but many will have worn out winding rotor axles, reversers etc and need more than just c/o so when your 1530/70 etc needs c/o and parts are n/a...you either have to buy another movement for a replacement or for parts to repair your existing movement. When I was working at a watch shop, the owner would c/o a 1570/75 powered watch for $150 plus parts if it did not need anything other than gaskets and a mainspring...new rotor axle, balance staff etc was extra. He was an absolute pro and fast so he could turn them out in a hurry. He also had an old L&R Automatic Ultrasonic cleaning machine that cleaned fully disassembled movements in a few minutes. I have one too but do not use it much because the fumes from the cleaning/rinse fluids will run you out of the shop. I would figure a fair price to c/o a 1570/75 out of the case (not in a watch) to be $125 to $150 so keep this in mind if you need one cleaned and oiled. Be careful of characters who brag about how good they are and ask $400 or $500 for a simple c/o. I am sure there are some who are good enough to rate these prices but since the 1570/75 is a simple, basic movement it should not be too much $$...except for parts and extra work. For example, to c/o the 1570/75 is about the same amount of work as an old Bulova 11BLACD and most repair shops will c/o them for $75 to $100. (I have about a dozen Bulovas with the 11BLAC/D, the D = date, and am familiar with them, mostly in old 1960s/1970s Bulova Oceanographers) Basic service is currently $800 in the United States, (or at least at RSC in New York as of September 19 2012). From TRF iirc...Took my two 36mm Oyster Datejust to the Rolex Store on 5th Ave in New York on September 19th, and it was $800 for basic movement service plus add on costs for all parts. Each watch was just a bit under $1800 total. Total damage for both is $3,718.09. From 2013 iirc...It's not only "No Parts For You!" for higher grade swiss stuff...even the 'gets no respect' TAG/Heuer brand has been this way for years. I have gone a few rounds with them. Now, all the swiss 'high brow' brands refuse to sell parts. Looks like it is spreading industry wide...I tried to get a stem for a current production Seiko with a 6G28A quartz movement and it was n/a from the three USA supply houses I tried. No complete movement available either. A friend finally got a stem for me...in Australia! Citizen is the same way...not many parts and movements available for Eco-Drives. My guess is Eta may soon cut most parts off for mechanical watch movement and go to selling complete movements. How about an Eta 2824-2 for only $550 (with an exchange)? They are already around $220, up from $65 a few years ago. I have been around watch repair shops for a long time and they are just about all gone now because even after making it through the quartz boom, they are finally giving it up because of no parts. One shop was open for 50+ years (mentioned above) and when the owner retired, he said anyone could have the shop free, machine tools, parts and all, just pay the rent and utilities. No one wanted the hassle. In the 10 or 12 years I was hanging around...we got our Rolex parts account closed three times. Once for not buying enough to warrant an account. Again for buying too much compared to past account activity, and we were accused of 'selling parts out the back door". Catch 22. I still have 95% of the parts in July 2023. They opened it again a year later with no request from us and closed it again for no reason at all. What's next...put you in jail for having an aftermarket part on your Rolex because they refuse to sell parts? I had a 1970's DJ that was rotted out all the way through the case under the bezel. Also had a few 16000 etc cases that were rotted out. Had a 6694 that was so bad it fogged up in a light rain. Have a new! improved! 904L! 16220 case that has corrosion around the case where the case back gasket seats. Is stainless steel really stainless? More or less. Corrosion resistant? Sorta. Rot out proof? No. They all rot out sooner or later. There is a LOT of junk out there and watch shows, eBay etc are dumping grounds for ratty cases that look good on the outside. Be suspicious at watch shows, trade shows etc if the caseback is screwed down real tight on an empty case so you can not examine it. I bought a 1603 from a seller in HK and it looked 90% good on the outside but was rotted out inside around the gasket area...it is now residing in my trophy case of lost causes. Got a 16220 that was the same way on eBay but got a refund. I've seen a whole lot of 16000 type cases that were rotted out. Seen a lot of rotted out submariners, some of them not that old. True story: I bought a 'same as nib' Rolex AK 14010M January 14, 2008 for $1000, serial number K93xxxx. Why $1000? That seems pretty low. Because the guy that got it for a 20 year work award could not grasp the concept of a screwdown crown or automatic winding watch, so he pitched it in a drawer and forgot about it. Until I came along. I still have it. Somewhere. Before it all fizzled out, I bought 13 of them. My 'contact' retired and that was the end of that. Miscellaneous: $226 MIL...plus 11 Mexican gold bullion coins, many pieces of expensive jewelry, seven luxury cars and a war chest of automatic guns... https://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/story-behind-largest-drug-cash-seizure-time-stumbling-226-million-cash/ Hypochondria is the only disease I do not have. Yet. Airbnb has no real estate. Uber has no cars. When the $80k Luxo Lexus you bought last year goes up for auction for nonpayment and sells for $1k, the bank will sue you to pay the $79K. If you don't believe it, call your bank and find out. The problem with buying gold and silver is that if you do not physically possess it, so you do not really own it. There appears to be several times more "on paper" gold and silver in existence than actual physical gold and silver.. Over 90% of the financial values of the market are simply fraudulent transactions of non-existent monies, and guess who gets stuck holding the bag? German Silver (nickel silver) like used in vintage watch cases is an alloy of 60 percent copper, 20 percent nickel, and 20 percent zinc. Crypto... "An imaginary 'coin' held by an account number starting with 1,3 or bc1, containing 27 to 34 alphanumeric Latin characters and digits that can be stolen or simply disappear for no known reason with no recourse." "Country music today doesn't suck, it just doesnt exist. What they call country music now is just pop music with an accent" Luthien It's not what you know, but who you know and what you can prove. What Watch Did James Bond Really Wear? Dr. No……………………………………...........Rolex Submariner..1 From Russia With Love ………………...Rolex Submariner..2 Goldfinger ……………………………….......Rolex Submariner..3 You Only Live Twice ……………………..Rolex Submariner..4 Thunderball ………………………………....Rolex Submariner..5 Brietling... 1 On Her Majesty's Secret Service …Rolex Submariner..6 Rolex Chronograph...1 Diamonds Are Forever …………………No watch seen The Man With the Golden Gun ……Rolex Submariner..8 Live & Let Die ……………………………....Rolex Submariner..9 Pulsar ... 1 The Spy Who Loved Me ………………Seiko ..1 For Your Eyes Only ………………………Seiko..2 Octopussy …………………………………...Seiko..3 A View to a Kill …………………………….Seiko..4 The Living Daylights …………………....Rolex Submariner..10 Licence to Kill ……………………………...Rolex Submariner..11 Goldeneye …………………………………...Omega Seamaster Professional..1 Tomorrow Never Dies …………………Omega Seamaster Professional..2 The World is Not Enough …………….Omega Seamaster Professional..3 Die Another Day ………………………….Omega Seamaster Professional..4 Casino Royale………………………………Omega Planet Ocean..1 Omega Seamaster Professional..4 Quantum of Solace………………………Omega Planet Ocean..2 Eleven Rolex, seven Omega, four Seiko, one Brietling, and one Pulsar. Mountain men who attended 'The Rocky Mountain Annual Rendezvous' held between 1825 and 1840 lived to an average of 68 years compared to city dwellers who lived only 53 years. How? By avoiding doctors...and hostile Indians. Demagogue: “One who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.” H. L. Mencken Typos are free.

Genuine, low mileage quartz. Got it March 5, 2012 in new condition (except for 2 links missing) in a trade.

Fast Forward 50 years... . The Field Guide is genuine. The other stuff...not so much. J.Seb.... Fine looking 1016!

"This was also the bigger turn off from my liking of the precision Rolex Oyster which are manual winding watches!" Agree. 'Hand crankers' should have non screw down crowns imho. "Have you checked these?" https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234857548399 Thanks! They do look good, I've not decided on a lume dot SS hand or a straight SS hand yet. This summer is going to be busy so there will be very little watch work and plenty time to decide. "I don't want to hijack this thread, but I think the screw down crown is really only useful for deep diving if you are a diver. " Agree. Many older ISO certified 200M dive watches did not have screw down crowns, some Bulovas for example. I guess one problem with nsd crowns might be if you snagged the crown on something and pulled it out to setting position while deep underwater, allowing one O ring to come off the case tube. I doubt the crown would come out far enough to allow both O rings to come off the tube, but one might cause a leak. Worse than that...you might pull the crown and stem out.

"I recommend using the Korean 16200 case. They can accept gen parts, including 3135 movement..." It looks very good but an unsigned case for $500 USD (including shipping) is pretty steep imho. "For adventurous solution, I reshape Rafflesdial 2824-2 Datejust 36mm case, increase the rehaut diameter, make custom movement ring and tabs, mill the caseback, and shoehorn a 3135 movement into it." I can go along with that. I have stuck a few DJ projects together and here is what I look for: 1...Case will accept oem spec case tube, crystal gasket, and crystal. If oem spec crystals fit, oem spec bezels will too. 2...Case is correct thickness within .5 to 1.0mm. 3...Case tube centerline will work with stem location in movement to be used. 4...Case has a groove milled inside for case clamps/screws. Very important because plastic spacers need to be avoided. 5...Case has lug holes already drilled through the lugs if needed for the project. It is extremely hard to drill all four holes evenly without special tools or very good luck. 6...Case must accept 27.9mm oem spec DJ dials if oem spec dials are to be used. Some aftmkt cases use larger dials and oem spec dials fall through or just barely catch. 7...Cases made like the 16200 series with an O ring gasket in the case works better than a flat gasket on the case back. If a bracelet or 'Riyi type' strap links are to be used, there is no need for letters/numbers on the case band between the lugs. No real need for case back letters/numbers at all. I've had trouble with stamped sheet metal bracelet end links (aka hoods) fitting cases but have always been able to trim them to fit. SEL end links may be an exception because there can be a lot of metal to reshape. Stamped end links with tubes soldered inside the fold do not move around as much but can be a hassle if the hood tubes and case lug holes do not line up. I sometimes have to curve the spring bars slightly to make things fit and this is easy with stamped hoods, but not so easy with 'Riyi' types and SEL. The soldered tubes in aftmkt hoods also break away from the hood fairly easily. 'Riyi' type strap hoods: eBay item number 143281479840 FYI on 18k replica cases... With current gold prices close to $2000 per Troy ounce, my 39 gram (inc/bezel) 18K replica 36mm DJ case is now worth around $1800 at full scrap price. The case was made in Italy and is oem spec except it was made for a larger than oem dial. So...if you see one in very good condition for $1200 or $1500 it would be a fair price, unless gold prices drop drastically after you buy it. New Italian made unsigned 18K DJ 36mm cases are $5245 at ST...without a bezel, 18K submariner cases are $6795 with a bezel. Asian made cases are quite a bit less if you can find them.

"I applaud your project..." Thanks Horo! "...unless the clone conversion part of it fits well on a genuine eta 2836-2 and I can be done with it!!!" I have used the GMT parts from an Asian 2836 GMT on a genuine ETA 2836 and they worked fine. The hand stack is right for a vintage type project and wrong for a modern type watch. The 24H hand is not adjustable on any of my etaclone or Swiss ETA GMT movements (except one in a modern etaclone Exp II), so they are better suited for vintage projects. "One may try the 2893-2 which is the factory genuine modification of the 2892-2 movement which is a lot thinner than both the 2836-2 and the 2824-2." The 2893 GMT is Ok imho but it is expensive, $395 on ST now. The good part is the 24H hand is adjustable and will work on modern type watches. It is a bit thinner than a 2836 conversion though...4.1mm compared to 5.1mm for a 2836. "My understanding is that the 2892-2 movement has the same dial feet positioning as the 2824-2 but dials made for the latter will fit well on the 2892-2 but not the other way as dials made for it have shorter feet." If the dial feet are a bit short, you can usually get by as long as they go into the movement far enough to keep the dial in place. The case clamps will need to supply enough tension to hold it all together though. "My other issue is that buying a Cartel case is not so easy to find either and even so, they are getting expensive for what they are!! I was able to buy good quality economy eta cases from YUKI but his website no longer lists cases anymore (well at least when I last looked.)" Good quality, affordable cases for 4 and 5 digit GMT projects are getting very hard to find (especially 1655 and 1675) and it looks like Yuki is out of the case business. I lucked out by buying a few '16710' Swiss ETA GMT watches with Asian 24H conversions (non adj 24H/hands) back when they were available. Also got one Swiss ETA '16750' with acrylic crystal and printed markers but the dial has 'OPD' at the top, not 'OP' as it should. I doubt anyone would notice...except repnuts of course. Ha! Also got a few '16710' with DG 3804 and have worn one now and then for 6 or 8 years with no trouble at all. The bracelets are very good with hollow mid links and the reflectors (rehauts) are a little bit 'wokky' but not too bad. I could remove the guts and machine the ID of the reflector out a little to hide the 'wok' but never did. "Even finding a stainless steel generic screw down crown for any divers watch regardless of brand is a challenge of it's own. I have several near mint condition citizen divers cases which are now absolutely junk as replacement stainless steel screw down crowns are near impossible to find!!" You are right about Citizen crowns. I have a few 200M Cit-Eco divers with red dials (red!) and the crown threads look fragile to me. The only thing that saves them is the fact they are quartz and do not need setting very much. Mechanical watches are another story. Crank, crank, crank...strip. In another case of 'dumb luck' I bought ten or twelve 7mm crown/tube sets from TC back when he was in the rep biz. Have one 8mm 'Brevet' crown from Athaya but never used it. His crowns and tubes must be Ok as there are very few complaints about them. A '16710' with DG 3804 in Black & White... Wok, Wok! Not really as bad as it looks. In the dark. The Swiss ETA models are better. I'll dig one out soon and post a pic. TC crowns/tubes in Living Color... Pic from today, date on the can is when I got them.

If anyone (other than me) is crazy enough to go down the rabbit hole on a '1655' project using a Rolex 15xx movement, here is the 'short scoop' on hands from what I learned the hard way. Learned? More or Less. After all, I have not quit on it yet. Genuine hands are up for sale on eBay etc. from $3500 (!!) to maybe $1200 and can go from nos, to pretty good, down to ratty. My 'shortcut 1655' project has been abandoned and the no hack 1575 movement is now in a 1002 with Yuki 'explorer' dial, minus the date parts. I had a pretty good set of aftmkt hands on it but with them being r/r maybe 20 times during the 'shorcut experiment', I need a better set for the next round with a 1575 hack movement, same 'shortcut' parts, and a J$W com case/dial. Sooner or later...I'm still gathering up parts. I kept a lookout on eBay, Chrono24 etc. and landed on a few pretty good sets of aftmkt '1655' hands for the Rolex 15xx movement on eBay after giving up on genuine hands. As of today (7-1-23) there are a couple sets of good aftmkt hands on eBay: Imho, the best deal is from 'watchpartsking' at $115 plus $4.99 shipping. eBay item number: 185791782661 Second best is Phong (guessing going by the address) at $195 plus $9.50 shipping. eBay item number: 234857545475 Both sets are very good, and I would go with the lower priced set only because of the price. Last choice is the set from WSO990 at $34.95 but they are not very accurate compared to genuine. The lume stripes are too long, too wide, too close to the hubs, and the black painted area is too short. The price is right though. eBay item number: 310304838749 I would not use them on a project and listed them for comparison. Today's highest price for a set of genuine 'straight second hand' 1655 hands goes to: eBay item number: 153524838667 at $3500 plus $65 shipping from Brazil. If you want a 'straight second hand' to go with an aftmkt hand set, a suitable 'straight second hand' with a long tube can be found on the 'net for around $10...paint it white, and age it. I found a few in my parts from other projects that are exactly the same as genuine except for the color. You need a long second hand tube because it has to pass through all the GMT and date works on top of the movement. Rolex hands were made mostly by Universal, Virex, and Fiedler. They made millions of hands for many brands and since Rolex 1655 'straight sweep second hands' are not out of the ordinary, it is fairly easy to find a duplicate. Otoh...a 'common sense 1655 project' would be an accurate cartel case, good dial/hands, and Swiss ETA 2846 with Asian GMT conversion, or lower $$ DG 3804. Building an MBW Sub + 'shortcut' rlx 1560/70 GMT conversions... - Page 2 - The Rolex Area - RWG

"Mounting this DWO is a huge pain in the ass, and finding a nice one is a bit of a challenge these days I think." "If it were me i'd use a 3135 clone movement and find a nice case for it. I think that would be easier overall, but might require more patience." Good advice. On aftermarket 36mm DJ cases: Cases made for 'Asian 21 jewel' movements, ETA 2836, and Asian etaclone 2836 movements may be a little bit thicker than cases made for 3135 clones and ETA 2824 spec movements but usually not enough to be noticed. 'Usually' being the key word here with anything replica. Common 'Asian 21 jewel' movements are DG, NN etc. patterned after genuine Miyota (Citizen) cal 82xx movements. Cases made for the 3135 clone movements will usually also accept ETA 2824 and Asian etaclone 2824 movements. Usually. Asian 3135 clone movements come in two or three versions, read up on them and get the best one. The downside is there is no spare parts network. Problems: Any Swiss or Asian etaclone 2824/2836 will need a date wheel overlay (aka DWO) so the date numbers will line up in the date opening in the dial, both genuine dials and 'in spec' aftmkt dials. DWOs are available on eBay etc. The 2836 movement is relatively easy to install a date wheel overlay on because it has more room between the date wheel and dial after the day of the week works are removed. The date also flips instantly on 2836 movements like a genuine modern Rolex but the 2824 changes the date slowly. The 2824 date wheel is also closer to the dial and the date wheel overlay may rub the dial. What is the fix? Use the spacer for a 2836 to raise the dial away from the date wheel overlay...but then the shorter 2824 hour wheel etc. mounts the hands too close to the dial. Many modders have used the 2824 hour wheel, canon pinion etc. with a DWO and spacer but the hands have to be straight and mounted very carefully. It all boils down to: Asian 3135 clones do away with all the DWO and dial hassles, but repair parts are not generally available and overall quality can vary. A new or freshly serviced Swiss ETA 2836 with a proper DWO and a high quality aftmkt case is probably the most reliable solution but with three downsides: 1...You have to cut the dial feet off. 2...You need a DWO. 3...It can be expensive if you can not do the work yourself. You could do a 'trial run' with an aftmkt case and your choice of movements with a 3135 spec dial and see how it goes. Rolex 3035 and 3135 take the same dials. Here are some low priced 3035/3135 DJ dials if you want to do a trial run first: Rolex Datejust Two-Tone Champagne Index Dial 36mm For Reference numb 16013 16233 | eBay They might be a little bit 'rough' but the price is right. Observation: In the past 15 or 20 years, genuine used Rolex dials and cases have gone UP in price 200% to 500% or more so be prepared if you look for a genuine case. Besides that, many genuine cases can have serious case corrosion by now. When I see a case or case back for sale pictured with the gasket in place, it makes me wonder what is hiding under the gasket. The case sides where the bracelet attaches to the case is also a garden for corrosion, starting out with black specks and/or small pin holes. Btw...NH movements are a dead end for Rolex DJ projects imho...very few Rolex spec parts made for them. Cheap when I bought them 25/30 years ago but worth a (small) fortune now. A smart move? Not really. I sold today's valuable Rolex watches too soon and ended up with a collection of empty cases. (not for sale)

Presenting... A waste of time. Dial and quartz movement from an obscure 'NPM' case/bracelet watch put into a nos steel Invicta case... Donovan - Sunshine Superman (Audio) - YouTube Invicta dial and movement in the NPM case/bracelet... NPM = Not Precious Metal. Ha! F333 & OT...Thanks!

"702 & 703 tubes are very different." Many replica 7mm crowns and case tube threads are not oem spec either. You can get in a real mess, real quick, when re-tapping case tube threads in cases. It can sometimes be very extremely hard to get the tap started straight. It can be as bad as drilling lug holes in a case with blind holes. Do not ask how I know this. It's like the guy who kept boring his air-cooled motocross cylinder out to the next oversize every time it seized up...first over, second over, third over, Wiseco. Sooner or later, you end up with a stack of big flat washers.

JF: "Rare now, after some fettling MBW cases make a great watch without going overboard on costs." Last Rolexfinder batch MBK '5512' purchased new from an RWG member... MBK dial, ST hands, bez kit, case tube, GS crystal, genuine crown, Mary foldoyster, c/o nos ETA 2879, lugs drilled, WSO 580 hoods. 'Polex' case number L342327. First posted 12-3-2021. Rolex Wristies thread - Page 139 - The Rolex Area - RWG

Bulova 10K gold caliber 224 'Accuquartz'... Snagged this one yesterday in very good condition with a 'frosted' sunburst dial. It was made in December 1976 (L6 with 12-6 stamped inside the case back) and has been taken good care of. Put a new sharkskin strap on it and wore it all day and it runs fine. Fyi...the empty case weighs 17.4 grams and is worth about $448USD at today's $1820/troy ounce gold (at full price). Also have an 'A&I' watch (awards and incentives) exactly like this one in 95% condition made in 1979 (L9) with an inscription on the back and the original strap/gold filled Accutron buckle. Someone probably got it, wore it a few times, and put it away. Accuquartz 224 (grail-watch.com)

From: 'THE VINTAGE ROLEX FIELD MANUAL' CHEVALIER EDITION The stainless steel used in Oyster cases is an alloy recipe made from iron ore, chromium, nickel, molybdenum, and a few other trace elements. These trace elements give the iron ore its stainless, corrosion-resisting properties. Metallurgists call this alloy “300 Series Austenitic Stainless Steel”. 316 stainless steel is considered standard marine grade stainless steel. Despite the name, it is not resistant to warm seawater corrosion (specifically, chloride, fluoride, iodide, and bromide). 304L and 316L (316L is the low carbon version of 316) are derived from this 300 Series and are used in many pre-1987 vintage Oyster cases. Later Oyster cases use 904L steel with subtly different properties. The common misconception is that 904L is harder and more scratch-resistant. The fact is, 316L has a higher Rockwell Hardness Rating (HR B 95) than 904L (HR B 7090), and 316L is also more scratch resistant and tougher to mill than 904L. It’s said to hold a better polish as well. 904L does, however, have better salt and acid resistance. In the mid-1980s Rolex adopted 904L as a solution to pitting and crevice corrosion. This is a common problem on Oyster mid-cases of sport and tool watches. It was first used on the transitional Submariner Date ref. 168000.

All five of my MBK watches have the same case tube threads and all will accept early or later 7mm tubes and crowns. Crown Info... - The Rolex Area - RWG Added 2-9-16: Word for word from an original rolex repair bulletin: The tubes Nos. 5330 and 7030 with the crowns Nos. 530, 603, and 703 compose the new OYSTER TUBES AND CROWNS assortment. The tube No. 5330 bears a crown No. 530 or 603 according to the reference of the case. The tube No. 7030 bears a crown No. 703. The tubes No. 5330 and 7030, as also the tube No. 6010, have the splines cut in the crown side part of the tube. The splines must not be reamed out any longer and can serve for unscrewing. Etc, etc. Finally and most important: The tubes with old type splines Nos. 5300 and 5310 can be replaced by the tube No. 5330, the tube No. 6000 by the tube No. 6010 and the tubes No. 7000, respectively No. 7020, by the tube No. 7030, for as much as the crown No. 700, respectively No. 702, be also replaced by the crown No. 703. Deciphered, this means any matching case tube/crown combo will work in most submariner cases made since the mid 1960s.

"Looking forward to the finished project." Me too. I need to put a new arbor in the pallet fork, stick the train wheels in, and oil the balance jewels etc. I have the arbor but not much spare time in the summer. Next will probably be a tutone 5501 AK with a Yuki 'explorer' dial. Then maybe a 1675 that has been parked so long it will not run. Aka 'gommed up'.

jackflash: Very Nice 5513! Here is a 1974 Citizen 'Challenge Dver' to go with your Seiko: I put a sapphire crystal kit in it from a Citizen guy in the UK a while back. The movement looks good, but it needs c/o. Vintage Review: Citizen 62-6198 Challenge Diver (fratellowatches.com)

This one has been apart since June 2011 and is reference 6422, made around the first quarter of 1956, original afaik except for the crystal and crown. The dial is pretty good and the 34mm case is in excellent condition with no corrosion. (19mm lugs). The movement is a cal 1210 17 jewel manual wind. I paid $350 for it in running condition with a Rolex rivet bracelet in 2011. I've seen a lot of these with all steel cases and goldtone markers/hands but not many tutones. This one had a steel bezel but had a gold crown when I got it. It might have been tutone and someone swapped the bezel but there is no way to tell. Probably go back together all steel. It is about half way finished and will have a Tropic 11 crystal in place of the T12 in the picture when done. I'll post a pic or two when it is finished. Sooner or later. The markers and ROLEX logo are embossed, not applied like later models. The back of the brass dial is smooth, no marker feet. The lume dots are radium and still plenty hot, checked with Geiger counter. No glow. 'Stainless steel' and 6422 are slightly tilted compared to the trademark and 'ROLEX' SA.

"Unless you are an expert in Rolex case stamping, it is unlikely you or almost anyone viewing your watch in the wild will be able to tell a steel gen case from the average rep." "Dials are a different story because even the most expensive aftermarket dials still contain errors compared to their gen counterpart." Agree 100%. Looking back... The best replica cases I have owned are: Yuki 5512 from May 2014. Yuki 5513 from May 2014. IG 44 1680 from around 2011. David Wong 'DW' 5513 & 1680 from 2010. MBK 5512/5513/1680 from 2012. Never had a Vn case. Which case is the best for accuracy and quality? The two Yuki cases but they are new so they will not pass as the real deal in new condition. The letters and numbers are very good too. Which case is the most convincing? The 'DW' 1680. Why? Because it has a genuine Lemrich 'Mark 1' dial. The dial is the fooler, not the case. Many other cases would suffice. The DW case has slightly rounded case sides like an old watch might have after a few polish jobs...in other words, it looks the part. It also has a Rolex 1575, but it does not show and a slow beat ETA would be just as good. It all boils down to a very good dial, a pretty good case, and a good period correct bracelet. Imho. There is always a catch, what is it? All the cases above are out of production.