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automatico

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Everything posted by automatico

  1. "...Switzerland once copied British and American watches as swiss were considered inferior." Their biggest hits were copies of USA made RR grade pocket watches and copies of fancy dress pocket watches from the late 1800s through the 1920s/1930s. I have seen a lot of them for sale at watch shows, commonly known as 'Swiss Fakes' and there are people who still collect them. The brand names are often misspelled to 'fool the fools' back then. The Swiss also made millions of low grade pin lever wristwatches in the 1940s/1950s/1960s as well as some higher grade pin lever models featuring 17 or more jewels. Bettlach and Ebosa brand movements were used in many of the better brands and most usually had '17 Jewels' or '21 jewels' on the dial. The common models had cheapo 1 jewel movements with no jewel claims on the dials sporting brand names no one had heard of that retailed for $10 or so. Some went so far as to have 'Bolivia' (knockoff Bulova) etc on the dial and came with boxes and papers...they were around $15 or so. The most famous pin lever brand of them all was Timex with movements from all over the world including the USA and England. Bettlach 17 jewel movement: 17 Jewel Ebauches Bettlach 8800 Walk Through. - Your Walkthroughs and Techniques - Watch Repair Talk Swiss Fake PW movement:
  2. This may not be much help but the signed autowind bridge is good because not too many replicas have them signed. Signed rotors yes, but not many signed aw bridges. The timehead may be Ok but like Timelord said...It is a hard call. I also vote the bracelet is bogus as I have a few like it. A few years ago just about any of us could spot a replica in less than one minute. It's not like that now. Something else...afaik the bezel is solid 14k gold on genuines, at least they were 30 years ago. The tutone bracelets were always gold filled or heavy gold plated. Bought a new tutone Tudor with ygf jubilee type bracelet in July 1991 with ETA 2824-2 and it had a solid 14k gold bezel. Iirc the list price back then was $1175, do not remember how much I paid. I paid $115 otd for a new 6430 Speedking on a signed lizard strap with signed buckle from an AD in 1972...it is still nos today. Back then new rolex watches were a dime a dozen from an AD...if you had a dime. An example of 'high line' toot vs 'low line' rolex prices, then and now...bought a new rlx 6694 in 1989 and it was $925 out the door, still have it nos. Now the 6694 will sell for around $2000, maybe $2500 and the tutone toot (if still nos) would go for around $1000/$1200.
  3. "It's a fake bracelet! The watch itself could also be a rep..." Fer shore. The Suspicious Cat says: You need to be very careful with Tudors as there are extremely accurate replicas being sold complete or put together from kits. 'Toot kits' are available and usually come with cases, dials, hands, crowns, and bracelet clasps. All that is needed next is an ETA 2824 or clone, a signed winding rotor, and a bracelet (usually jubilee type) with hoods...455B because they are very common on replicas and easy to find. Most original Tudor ETA 2824 movements were fully decorated but a china Seagull deco etaclone can be substituted after the addition of a signed rotor. 'Fully signed' = ETA trademark and movement numbers on the main plate below the balance wheel and a signed rotor. Unsigned decorated etaclone Seagull 2130 on eBay, item number 233959719208 $82 delivered. Signed rotors for $10.34 each (inc shp) on eBay. Item number 293303964387
  4. I can not remember ever seeing a lady size automatic watch with day of the week spelled out at the top, not saying there are none, just that I have not seen one. Have seen quite a few with the day and date in a row at 3 o'clock and the day is almost always shortened to three letters. The smaller ETA 26xx (8 3/4 ligne, about 17mm) often used in lady size watches never had a DD in the Prez configuration that I know of. Probably some quartz examples out there and I looked on ST at the ETA 8 3/4 ligne quartz movements and did not see one. Can not remember seeing a Cit-Eco with this feature but I have quite a few and will look through them and post an update...doubt I have one though. Update 4-16-21: Looked through a bunch of lady watches and none have day of the week spelled out at the top of the dial but a few have D&D at 3 with three letter day abbreviations.
  5. "Are these reverse threaded by any chance?" They are standard right hand thread...righty-tighty, lefty-loosie. "And they are in fact threaded into the crown?" Every crown I have taken apart was the older type with 'bottle caps' crimped over the crown frame and the crown post always unscrewed from the crown. They might have thread locker of some type on them because some were hard to get apart and I did give up on getting a few to come apart. Heating the crown cap might help but it could damage the clutch spring. "But I thought I better ask if they are cross threaded and if we are certain that large tube is not soldered onto the crown." The threads always look good after taking one apart and I doubt any are soldered but you never know. Most of what I took apart were 5.3 and 6.0mm crowns. I bought a few 7mm crowns from TC and they all had weak springs but I never took one apart to change springs. I thought maybe a spring from a spring bar might work, just never tied it. They were very well made but after a few screw ups and screw downs the spring in the crown would get too weak to overcome the set lever spring and the watch would not go from setting position to winding position. You had to flip the crown a few times like flipping a kid on the head to get their attention. That will probably get you 20 years hard time for 'child abuse' now. Crown abuse is still Ok afaik.
  6. One thing is for sure: "The Vietnam case selling for over $1,000 is testing the market prices." They are selling for $1000 because buyers will pay the price, not because they are 'worth' $1000. If no one bought them they would lower the price until they started selling or make something else to sell. J&W Watch com probably gets a lot more. S&D, business as usual. I have mentioned before that I have two Yuki cases that I bought direct from Yuki in 2014 (5512 and 5513). I still have them and will say they are made to an extremely high standard, as high or higher than genuine vintage rlx 55xx cases of the 1970s that I have compared them to. I also know that some earlier Yuki cases were not as well made and I owned a Yuki '1680' in 2011 that was very good but not quite up to the standards of the 5512 and 5513 from 2014. That being said...if the 'Vietnam' cases will sell for $1000+ it is fine with me...but I also seriously doubt they are made in Vietnam, a modern watch factory in China gets my vote. Something else... Since I completed my 'shortcut 1655' I have looked on the internet to see what genuine 1655 watches are going for. They are priced at $15,000 to $45,000 (!!) but there is no way to know what they are really selling for so let's say an average of $20,000USD. How much $$ did my 'shortcut 1655' cost to put together? I'm ashamed to say. I also have a complete genuine 1570/75 hack GMT movement in first class condition with genuine nos GMT parts that ended up costing $1500+ above the movement price for the GMT parts. I will venture to say at today's prices a complete genuine 1575 GMT movement will cost $3500 or more and most likely not be in fine condition like the one I have or be put together with nos GMT parts. There is no difference at all between a 15xx movement that left the factory as a GMT and a standard date movement turned into a GMT using all genuine parts. They both have a serial number beginning with D (for Date) and no GMT identifying marks. Since the factory refuses to give out any info at all there is no way to tell if it is an all original GMT movement or if it has been converted using all correct and genuine parts. That's the way it is now and with almost no GMT parts available today there probably will not be many conversions put together in the future. That's why the 'shortcut' GMT conversions came about but they still need a few genuine GMT parts to function properly. So...subtract $3500 from $20,000 and it says a genuine 1655 case, dial, hands, and bracelet are 'worth' at least $16,500 now. Wow! What kind of idiot would pay that much for a few old faded out, half worn out rolex parts? I might be surprised. Maybe this is why they are can get $1000 or more for a good quality replica 'Vietnam' case. I doubt many buyers are sticking $200 ETAs in them.
  7. "Just for a follow up....I would definitely only recommend using a pin vise instead of crushing the tube with a large vise unless you intend to not reuse the part that is getting crushed." Good advice. I use a collet in an old 8mm 'watchmaker' lathe. The collets are made in .1mm steps and are high precision so they will not slip and damage the crown post. Most hobby guys do not have one but most old timer repair guys do and many will let you use the lathe for 5 minutes to unscrew a crown post. You do not use any electrical power, you just snug the crown post in the proper collet with the drawbar and back the crown cap off with your fingers while holding the lathe pulley with the other hand. If the crown cap is too tight, wrap the cap with leather or something to protect the finish and use pliers etc. Clean the parts and use a new crown cap gasket. Old style crowns with steel or gold 'bottle caps' are usually made of nickel silver and are pretty soft so the threads are easy to damage. I usually try to apply a smidgen of Loctite to the threads where the post screws into the cap but my guess is it does not do much good if it gets mixed up with lube etc. For this reason I run a very small amount of oil down into the crown post between the telescoping part that screws on the stem and the crown post...after the Loctite has had time to set. I've had a few come unscrewed so I went to Loctite. It seems to help. I always worried about new crown cap gaskets because they just flop around between the end of the case tube and crown cap. They can get crosseyed and damaged but usually they stay put. I tried to cement a few to the crown cap with sticky gasket goo but it made a mess so I gave up on it. It's just something else to worry about...and another reason to wear a G-Shock.
  8. "What are the crown tube dimensions for the 50s oyster perpetual? I believe they came with the 6mm crown. Does that mean they also had the 3mm x 0.35mm crown tube?" Most of them are the same depending on the watch reference number. Some models might have the 'Super Oyster' crowns carried over from the early 1950s but I do not know when they were cut from production. The 'Super Oyster' was not too hot, they tended to wear out sooner than anticipated. The oldest watch I have is a 1956 6605 DJ and it has a regular 6.0mm crown and case tube...send the watch reference number by PM and I can look it up and see what crown and case tube it came with.
  9. "Here is a perfect example of the wear on the pins giving the illusion of stretch." Ronin, I noticed that was a tutone bracelet. I have seen tutone jubilee bracelets with the spring bars worn through the tube into the coil spring and the gold end links would still be in good condition. Evidently the gold is tougher than it is perceived to be. Tutone jubilees that are worn loose are prone to wear if they are not washed every week or so. TT oyster models wear out too but it seems they wear at a slower rate. I have some TT jubilee bracelets from ST (made in Italy) and the center links are quite a bit thicker where they ride against the steel connecting pins than regular aftmkt bracelet links and they last for a very long time...but they ain't cheap now with $1750 gold. I have used quite a few of the ST 'made in Italy' bracelets and they are always highest quality. Many sellers claim their bracelets are 'made in Italy' but are not. It is fairly easy to tell them apart if you can compare them in hand. It sure would be nice if tutones came back in style. I still have TT parts left from the 1990s. ST...Men's Rolex 14K Gold/Stainless Steel Heavy Link Jubilee Date Replacement Bracelet. Italian made $1235.00
  10. "Before doing anything, I would post good clear pics of said dials. You may be fretting over nothing, or the pics might inspire the right solution." Very good advice. The dial markers on my 'shortcut 1655' seemed to be a little too dark. So I fixed it. How? By looking at pictures of 1655 watches until I found a few just like mine. I can only hope they were genuine and not replickas. I understand colors may be off a little on 'net pics but I'm willing to be at peace with the dial now.
  11. "But then the gen spec hands won't fit the cannon pinion on an ETA movement unless you broach/stake the hell out of them, then they rub the minutes hand." Info is from my notes, no guarantees: Rlx 15xx hand sizes: H 1.20mm M .80mm SS .20mm iirc cal 1030 hands are the same or very close to 15xx. ETA 28xx: H 1.50mm M .90mm SS .25mm Mvt diameter is a hair less than 26.0mm. Rlx 15xx movement thickness; No date...5.75mm Date...6.3mm GMT...6.45m Day/Date...7.0mm All are 28.5mm max diameter. Cal 1030 is 28.5mm also.
  12. "One more thing, has anyone used heard of rolliworks.com ? They claim to be experts in bracelet restoration." I've seen good reviews on their work but it was on later model bracelets like 93150 etc. Do not know if they can restore stretchers and folders. I will say M. Young did a good job on a stretch oyster, an old steel C&I jubilee, and a regular rivet oyster. The other two mentioned before, not so good.
  13. The bottom line imho: "I'm afraid there are two paths to follow here. Aftermarket parts "made to work" and genuine." (Nanuq) As good as some of the replica bracelets are now, I would repair/replace worn out genuine links with replicas and hang on to the originals. There are not many options for folded oyster repair if you want to wear one. ST has some very good hollow center link aftmkt DJ-93150 links for $17.50 each...p/n RMOSS-LINK/OP. If someone really wanted to make a link separator they could buy a small cheapo table vise and mount a pair of smaller clamps of some sort to the top of the jaws (by bolts/screws) and carefully grind the underside of the clamp jaws to match the contour of oyster links. Probably mount the link concave side down so the top clamps would need to be hollowed out a little bit. Close the jaws of the table vise close enough for the clamps to hold the link and unscrew the table vise jaws to separate the links. It would take a lot of fiddling with but it would work. Any clamp cuts/reshaping would need to be polished when finished to keep from scratching the links unless a copper etc liner was used. I've made quite a few hair-brained tools like this and they all worked after a little trial and error. $18.39 at Home Depot This H-D model looks like it has enough room on top of the jaws to mount simple strap type top clamps. Just a strip of steel or brass 6mm or so thick bolted to the top of the vise jaws on each end would work. It would not be hard to drill and tap 5/16 inch or 8mm threads in the jaw tops...6mm or 1/4 inch might be Ok too. Making the top clamps out of brass would be better because it would not tend to scratch the steel links. If you wanted to grind the clamps to fit the top contour of the links the clamp material would need to be a little thicker. You can also line the insides of the vise jaws with brass or copper strips and use the vise to press the links back together. Copper strips on the vise jaws might be better because it is softer and easy to bend, brass tends to crack. Copper strips would also work for pads under the links for protection when pulling them apart. You could use copper strips with holes at each end to match the clamp bolts.
  14. "I’m guessing there is zero parts interchangeability between 15xx and 30xx. (eg. reversers)." Far as I know nothing will interchange.
  15. "AWA's. I am on my second 1570 awa in my 1680 😞 ... I see tons of awa's for 3xxx series Rolex movements, but it is getting rare to see 15xx." Yep, they are getting hard to find. I had to scrounge up the 1520 signed awa in the '1655' out of parts from eBay and it was past its prime. The 1570 signed awa I'm putting in it came from a 1603 and all is well except the rotor axle is loose in the weight. I'll use the rotor from the 1520 awa in it because it has a new rotor axle. I bought a few sets of reversers on eBay with good luck but awa plates or rotors are too much $$ for me now unless I really get in a jam. All the watch traders around here are out of 15xx rlx movement parts or holding on to what they have left. One good thing about the 15xx awa is they can be brought back to life as long as the plates and rotor are good. You can replace the rotor axle, reverser/intermediate wheel jewels, im wheel, and reversers to make it like new. The only factory parts needed are the reversers because the others are available from the aftmkt . A while back I saw brand new aftmkt red anodized reverser bodies for sale without the inner ratchet wheel but they were $100 each. Too much moola for half a reverser imho. In 1995 they were $25 new for a set...one red body and one ratchet wheel. I should have loaded up on them back then. I no longer see many 1030 parts for sale on eBay. One hard to find part is the rotor bearing p/n 7004 and they do not show up for sale often if ever. I hope I have not scared 'one80' away with my Voice of Doom. It ain't really that bad.
  16. "Properly assembled and maintained, Rolex calibers are nearly bulletproof." I agree 100% especially the 1530 base models. My gripe is their parts policy. It is extremely simple though...No Parts For You! Not Now, Not Ever. I like the 1030 models just fine and still have watches with them but do not wear them, never did. I bought them at bargain prices (compared to today) and still have them. The 'shortcut 1655' mentioned above was a major hassle to stick together but that was because it was a project using a non genuine GMT conversion plus having to repair the base movement. That said, it has been running flawlessly for a few months since it was put in running condition back before the GMT kit was added and put in a case. Matter of fact I've decided to leave it in the cartel case and replace the high mileage 1520 auto-wind assembly with a proper low mileage 1570 awa. It will probably quit running now. One thing I do not like about 1530 base movements is they did not put a jewel or bushing in the main plate side for the main spring arbor. If it goes dry it will wear out of round and allow the MS barrel to drag on the plate. I do not know how long it would take without service but I have seen a few. The reverser arbors, intermediate winding wheel arbors, and winding rotor jewels/arbors also need attention every few years. arbor = axle
  17. "The alternative is Michael Young. He's been restoring vintage bracelets for decades and he does *spectacular* work." I sent 4 bracelets to M Young in August 2007 and all I will say is going by remarks about how good his work is in the last 5 or 7 years...the work has greatly improved since I had mine done. I could post details but I have no proof. Let's just say that two out of the four were unwearable when I got them back...one the original swiss jubilee from a 1979 1675 and one from a tutone DJ 6605 made in 1956.
  18. "Basically, looking for 1.8mm spring bars but with the full length of a 2.0mm and with thicker ends to take up all the room in the lug hole." I know exactly what you are looking for. One of the things I have is a big spring bar accumulation from many years 'collecting' and being a silent partner in a watch store. Do I have any spring bars in 1.8mm tube size with long 1.2mm tips? No. Never have seen any. Yet. But no doubt they are out there somewhere. What I have seen is a few 20mm SB with 1.8mm center tubes and long .9mm +/- diameter tips in an assortment I got from S. LaRose 25 or 30 years ago. They are basically the same as a SB made for rlx 6694/1500 case with 19mm lug space and lug holes all the way through...they work in genspec Daytonas too. The catch is since they were made for 19mm lug space and having no 'flanges' on the ends, the 'shoulders' (usually 1.20/1.25mm diameter) on the ends next to the .9mm end tips can sometimes pass through 1.25/1.3mm lug holes and allow the SB to shift to one side. Spring bars made for 16xx, 16xxx, and early 162xx DJ are similar to the 19mm SB except they have a 'plug tip' on one end and on the other end they have a 1.25mm shoulder ending in a .9mm tip. The shoulder might enter or pass through 1.25/1.3mm lug holes allowing the SB to stick out of the lug...but not usually. 'Plug tip' = the tip end that comes out of the tube like a 5512/13 etc SB. 'Official terms' = commonly used terms in the trade: 'Single shoulder' = shoulder on one end only, like the early DJ type SB. 'Double shoulder' = shoulders on both ends, like rlx 6694/1500. 'Single [censored]' = [censored] on one end only. 'Double [censored]' = flanges on both ends. Spring bars for 6694/1500 etc have .9mm tips about 1.5mm long with 1.25mm shoulders on both ends. Spring bars for DJ etc have .9mm diameter tips with a 1.2mm/1.25 diameter shoulder on one end. The other end has a 'plug end' (no shoulder) coming out of the center tube about 2.0mm long. Measurements are approximate but close.
  19. Just for fun...does anyone know the ID and OD of a genuine 1655 bezel? I have three replica bezels and each one is a different size: 1...30.20mm ID 37.55mm OD 2.78mm tall 2...30.32mm ID 37.38mm OD 2.55mm tall 3...30.18mm ID 37.60mm OD 2.80mm tall I've tried three different aftmkt crystals and all three are different ID and OD. The watch has the 30.32mm/37.38mm bezel on it now with the closest fitting crystal of the three...from Cas-Ker a long time ago, I tried a crystal from ST and the ID was too small, one from Sternkreuz was way too loose (might have been a 135C in wrong package), and a new one from C-K was too small to go over the case neck without cracking. No idea who made any of the crystals but the ST and new C-K crystals are exactly the same. I may end up cutting one of the bezels to fit the crystal when I find the right one. I always try to get three so I'll have spares and since the one on the watch is an oldie and not the same as current stock it will be hard to match. Clark has them for $8.25 but shipping is $4.25 and if they do not combine shipping it would be too much $$ just for a trial fit. I have a genuine 116 but it is sealed in a plastic bag and I do not want to open it. I measured the OD of the case neck and wrote it down along with the OD of the crystals mounted on the case but can not find the note. Story of my life.
  20. "Is my 12yr old almost full bottles still good?" Moebiu$ says NO! Internet windbags say NO! I say probably but I'm a contrarian windbag. I bet a lot of repair guys are using oil that old.
  21. "My embarrassment comes from the fact that I have never been successful in putting a mainspring In the barrel back by hand!" After you get the MS started do not look at what you are doing...do it all by feel. Put your hands under a table so you will not be tempted to look. No kidding. My downfall is hairsprings. I am too slow working on them to be worth a hoot. 1. "Is the one sold in the holder just pressed in?" Yes. Carefully and flat. 2. "...and if so, are there any traps one needs too avoid from the spring flying out into my face?" Be sure that any tool you use to press the MS out of the holder into the barrel has an OD big enough to shove the complete MS down into the barrel and not let a run of MS get outside the barrel when removing the MS holder or the MS might/will fly out. Also seat the MS fully in the barrel after inserting it with something that will not damage the MS or barrel wall before you move the MS holder away from the barrel. I use a piece of peg wood a little bigger that a toothpick with a flat end. The ideal tool would be round aluminum etc and just barely slip through the hole in the MS holder so it will push the MS all the way into the barrel but too many tools would be needed for different barrels. 3..."How do you tell the direction of the mainspring before beginning the wind by looking at the shape of the spring?" Always look at the old spring before removing it from the barrel. On automatics be sure the bridle is properly positioned and oil the barrel wall and floor before installing the MS. On manual wind models look at the barrel wall to see which way the MS needs to go in order to get 'snagged' on the wall. Many new MS come dry lubed and only need oil on the wall and a drop on the floor and cap, not much at all on the spring itself. Manual wind watches need very little oil on the barrel wall. Oil the arbor where it passes through the barrel. I use D5 on the arbor where it runs in the barrel and plates...D5 because I already have it and do not want to spend $$ on the latest synthetic FOTM. Heck, I'm already using 9010 and 9020! Besides...D5 is $55 on Amazon now so it is expensive enough for watch snobs. Maybe they should name it D$55. If you do not remember which direction the MS goes in the barrel, you can also look at a similar movement and see which way the MS arbor turns when hand winding. Since the threaded end of the barrel arbor usually goes through the barrel cap, you can tell which way the MS goes by the sharp end of the 'hook' on the arbor. My K&D MS winders are probably 60 years old but they were free. Hard to beat the price. FOTH = Flavor Of The Month. Ha!
  22. Added 3-27-21: From: Where to get a case to fit a Yuki 3135 - The Rolex Area - RWG Question: "I have a Yuki 3135 movement in good shape and I'm entertaining the idea of building a watch around it." "In particular I keep seeing that a 3135-style movement will not fit into a case intended for a 2824 or similar ETA movement, which is what most of the stock out there apparently is geared towards." There are basically two variations of 36mm DJ type cases floating around: 1...Common cases made for swiss ETA 2836 and 2836 etaclones and/or various china DG/NN etc '21 jewel' movements. Because these movements started out as day/date movements, they are a little bit thicker than a 2824 date movement and the stem will be closer to the back of the case because of the thickness of the extra day of the week parts. 2...Cases made for swiss ETA 2824 and 2824 etaclones. They may be a little bit thinner overall than a 2836 case or they may be the same thickness as a 2836 case with the difference in movement thickness allowed for in the way they are machined inside the case. The newer 36mm DJ and DJ 41 cases may be made differently depending on the movement or they all might be the same. This goes for submariner type cases too except many DJ and submariners now come with 3135 clones so the Yuki 3135 may fit. I never had a watch with a 3135 clone, most of my projects used swiss ETAs. Successful projects that is. The problem is these cases are not always made to oem spec (or any spec) and there will be variations in cases made for the same movement...shallow reflector (aka 'rehaut') vs taller reflector, movement not centered in the case same as oem etc. For this reason there is really no set rule on what case will accept the Yuki 3135 clone. It is discouraging but that's the way it is...the replica world is basically 'Out Of Spec'. Ha! About all I have done is tell you what the pitfalls are so now maybe a member who has put a watch together using the Yuki 3135 will chime in with a few tips. 'More or Less Rules'... A case made for a 3135 will usually accept a 2824. May need a movement spacer. A case made for a 3035 will usually accept a 2836. May need a movement spacer. A case made for a 3135 will accept a rlx 15xx no date mvt. Without the calendar wheel spacer. A case made for a 3035 will accept a standard rlx 15xx date mvt. Rlx 15xx no date mvt will work if a calendar spacer is used but it will need a 15xx date center wheel, CP, and hour wheel or the hands may be too close to the dial. 'Hit or Miss Rules'... If you want to use a rlx 15xx date mvt without the date parts in a case made for a rlx 15xx date movement (MBK 5512/13 for example), you can get by with the standard date center wheel, CP, and hour wheel. You need to leave the calendar spacer on the mvt without the date works. If you use a rlx 15xx date movement in a case made for an ETA 2824 or rlx 15xx no date movement, you can remove the calendar spacer and all the date works and use it as/is in submariner cases because the hands setting high will not matter too much and the crystal should be high enough to clear the SS hand. On a '1016' etc it will not look right and the SS hand may rub the crystal. All rlx 15xx, 30xx, and 31xx are 12.5 ligne size in diameter (about 28.2mm) and an ETA 28xx is 11.5 ligne size (about 26mm) so if the case is a 'dedicated' ETA 28xx case it may not accept a rlx movement. The mm sizes are not exact but very close. Enlarging the inside of a case made for an ETA 28xx will not need much cutting because the difference only amounts to about 1.5mm +/- and this equals only a .75mm cut. 'More or Less Rules' come with a No Money Back Guarantee. Same goes for 'Hit or Miss Rules'. Question: "Can you put a clone or GEN 3xxx series movement in a 4-digit GEN case?" Only a few will fit. For example a 3035 with OPD dial will work fine in a 1500 case made for a 1570 date but a 3135 with OPD dial will not fit because it is thinner and the stem will not line up in the case tube. A four digit 16xx DJ is a mess because of the 'pie pan' dial and a flat dial (1016 etc) will work in some projects but I never tried it. The movement mounts a hair higher in a DJ 16xx case because of the 'pie pan' dial so a flat dial and 15xx without date works and calendar spacer might work. There is quite a bit of difference in the 3035 and 3135...as a rule of thumb the 3035 is the same size as a 15xx date mvt but the 3035 and 15xx date movements are thicker than a 3135 and will not fit properly in a case made for a 3135. Otoh...my first '1016' project used a no date rlx 15xx mvt without the calendar spacer in a 162xx case...this is the reverse of your question but it shows another possibility. Everything fits, movement, 1016 dial etc. Since no one makes a 3035 clone afaik we are stuck with genuine 3135/3135 clones and ETAs for other than '21 jewel' projects. What is needed is a pair of high quality automatic movements, one 19800 or 21600 bph with rlx 15xx dial foot holes and hand sizes and one 28800 bph with 3035/3135 dial foot holes and hand sizes. All 3035 and 3135 hands and dials will interchange up through the 36mm DJ etc but the bigger cases, DJ 41 etc use a movement spacer and the date is offset farther to the outside. It's a moving target.
  23. "This was super helpful! Pin this post." Thanks! I'll put it in the 'Building an MBK sub...' sticky at the top of the rlx section. "Can you put a clone or GEN 3xxx series movement in a 4-digit GEN case?" Only a few will fit. For example a 3035 with OPD dial will work fine in a 1500 case made for a 1570 date but a 3135 with OPD dial will not fit because it is thinner and the stem will not line up in the case tube. A four digit 16xx DJ is a mess because of the 'pie pan' dial and a flat dial (1016 etc) will work in some projects but I never tried it. The movement mounts a hair higher in a DJ 16xx case because of the 'pie pan' dial so a flat dial and 15xx without date works and calendar spacer might work. There is quite a bit of difference in the 3035 and 3135...as a rule of thumb the 3035 is the same size as a 15xx date mvt but the 3035 and 15xx date movements are thicker than a 3135 and will not fit properly in a case made for a 3135. Otoh...my first '1016' project used a no date rlx 15xx mvt without the calendar spacer in a 162xx case...this is the reverse of your question but it shows another possibility. Everything fits, movement, 1016 dial etc. Since no one makes a 3035 clone afaik we are stuck with genuine 3135/3135 clones and ETAs for other than '21 jewel' projects. What is needed is a pair of high quality automatic movements, one 19800 or 21600 bph with rlx 15xx dial foot holes and hand sizes and one 28800 bph with 3035/3135 dial foot holes and hand sizes. All 3035 and 3135 hands and dials will interchange up through the 36mm DJ etc but the bigger cases, DJ 41 etc use a movement spacer and the date is offset farther to the outside. It's a moving target.
  24. 'More or Less Rules'... A case made for a 3135 will usually accept a 2824. May need a movement spacer. A case made for a 3035 will usually accept a 2836. May need a movement spacer. A case made for a 3135 will accept a rlx 15xx no date mvt. Without the calendar wheel spacer. A case made for a 3035 will accept a standard rlx 15xx date mvt. Rlx 15xx no date mvt will work if a calendar spacer is used but it will need a 15xx date center wheel, CP, and hour wheel or the hands may be too close to the dial. 'Hit or Miss Rules'... If you want to use a rlx 15xx date mvt without the date parts in a case made for a rlx 15xx date movement (MBK 5512/13 for example), you can get by with the standard date center wheel, CP, and hour wheel. You need to leave the calendar spacer on the mvt without the date works. If you use a rlx 15xx date movement in a case made for an ETA 2824 or rlx 15xx no date movement, you can remove the calendar spacer and all the date works and use it as/is in submariner cases because the hands setting high will not matter too much and the crystal should be high enough to clear the SS hand. On a '1016' etc it will not look right and the SS hand may rub the crystal. All rlx 15xx, 30xx, and 31xx are 12.5 ligne size in diameter (about 28.2mm) and an ETA 28xx is 11.5 ligne size (about 26mm) so if the case is a 'dedicated' ETA 28xx case it may not accept a rlx movement. The mm sizes are not exact but very close. Enlarging the inside of a case made for an ETA 28xx will not need much cutting because the difference only amounts to about 1.5mm +/- and this equals only a .75mm cut. 'More or Less Rules' come with a No Money Back Guarantee. Same goes for 'Hit or Miss Rules'.
  25. Looks good! How close to a rolex case of the same period is the toot other than engraving? Looks like it has the back gasket in the case back too. "Also, I have resized those bracelets using two hand remover levers to get in and pry open the folded link to remove and then used various pliers with electrical tape on them to reclose." I have wrestled with these bracelets for years, genuine and replica...good idea on the hand pullers! The main problem I have is keeping the front side of the mid link from showing a slight bend line after removing or installing an adjoining link. I have an old, old set of 10.5 inch USA made Craftsman 'Channellock' type slip jaw pliers with small half round cut-outs on the jaw tips that squeeze the links back together like new. I've had the pliers for over 40 years and have never seen another set like it.
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