alligoat

Previous MBW's would take a gen dial- not easy, but it can be done. I believe the gen insert is more work, but Tribal would be the person to ask about that (or bklm) since he has the most experience in that area. Edit: After reading ByTor's review of the new TT MBK, with gen bezel assembly, if the ss MBK sub also has that, a gen bezel insert ought to snap right in

Like Freddy, I don't recall ever seeing that particular dial. Non-quick set would have dial feet at 6 and 11:30 to fit the 1575 movt. Quick set feet are at like 7:30 and 2:30 or thereabouts for the 3035 and 3135 movts.

My favorite noobmariner (on the right next to my gen 16800) has an eta copy movt and has been a great beater, keeps great time, cost $100 from River, gen crown, aftermarket tube, better pearl. Should I have to service it for $75-100, I'd still only have less than $300 in it. I managed to buy what I thought was an ETA 3836-2 for $50 from Hong Kong, put it in a Frankenjust and it promptly crapped out- $75 to fix it- doing fine now. Watchmaker said it was eta, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a copy. So my eta copy experince is very limited. Experience with the DG2813's has been good. Of the asian 21j's, I certainly think they are the best. Haven't tried the DG4813. As I understand it, these movements with the WO symbol under the balance are from PTS Resources over in China. I certainly think this is going to be a great watch- esp. with the MBK/MBW case and noob dial, etc.

2950 pounds sounds about right. Here in the USA, list is $5850, I believe. But it's still a 16610, isn't it? Latest serial # is M. And the Rolex, Rolex, Rolex on the rehaut should become more common with this latest batch of M serial Subs.

That sounds right to me. I think the older 24-602 crown uses the 6mm tube- 24-6020. Seems like I read somewhere a few weeks ago that the 24-600-0 crown takes a 24-6010-0 tube. I know I'm confused- it's nothing like the fairly cut and dried 7mm Sub crowns and tubes!

No doubt about it, Stephane- just like bklm1234, they're both sub cannibals!

Interesting name change! I picked up this Willian Marshall for a couple of hundred dollars from Switzerland a few years ago- a nice beater with a 2824-2 and I personally tested it to 100 ft- it's rated 200m.

Wow, that sounds pretty cool, Chris! Would it be possible to get this watch with the copy ETA movement? I'd really love to see that.

Very nice, Stephane. Certainly the WM9 case gets you as close to perfection as anything these days. Of course, all of the gen parts help, too. Great job.

Good point, TMG. The O&W's are nice. I'm very pleased with my Mirage III, great military chrono looks like the Sinn 103, and the older Breguets. And their Sub type watches are great values, also.

Check out Steinharts- they run in the $400-500 range, with a Swiss ETA movt. Also, there are some no-name copy subs- maybe Homer has them (or was it PT- Precious Time)- reasonably priced. And Invicta has the poor man's sub- the 8926 with the Miyota movt. A good deal for around $110, WR to 200 meters.

Good point T! Wouldn't we love to know what GAF is up to these days! Just a letter from them could ruin your week!

I don't think the difference in white or gilt dial print is a big deal on the depth rating and I certainly don't see anything wrong with the all gilt dial from the pic- but the pic ain't that good. I guess I'll have to go home and read Skeet and Urul. Remember, this was the 50's and Rolex did what they did. Who would have thought 50 years later collectors would be over analyzing their vintage watches. I'm stuck on two minor things- the bezel insert (a 5513 insert) and a possibly replaced second hand- what can you do if the old one breaks! Three, if you count the bracelet, but it's a non issue in my mind. Price is pretty high, but that's the market. These guys are elephant hunting- if they get one, they can live off the meat for 6 months!

I agree with Freddy, it's an aftermarket dial. But I like it- from the pic it appears to have white lume, which is hard to find in a 5513 dial. If the seller doesn't say genuine, you got to figure aftermarket. Even a refinished gen dial is going to run $300-500. The GD replica collectors are driving up the market! I've been blocked by Astorlive for questioning one of their 100% authentic Rolex GMT's. I think it's kinda funny in a way, because now days even Rolex is hesitant to guarantee their vintage watches as 100%. You gotta wonder what makes Astorlive better than Rolex themselves?

The nickel copy movements that I saw where on the TZ-UK forum. No ETA markings but definitely a 2824/2836 copy. Can't remember if it was a Seagull, maybe some other unheard of company (at least for me).

Swiss on the bottom of the dial is OK- this is before tritium which came in around 1963-4. The dial is actually Radium. Should it have Submariner??? I don't know, maybe it's too early???

I agree with POTR- the insert looks like a 5513 insert. The lugholes look OK to me- it's just the pics and the lugs have been polished (overpolished?). A T-16 would be correct for the 6536-1, but the crystal looks OK to me. Movement and crown seem OK. I do agree that the seconds hand appears to be a later replacement.

Yesterday I was discussing this with rodwc in another post. He was really concerned about being deceived by the rep sellers and not receiving a real ETA in his rep. But I have to admit, this line between genuine ETA and clone has been getting fuzzier for the last year or so. It only makes sense to me that we are going to see more and more of these clone movements in our reps. Heck, the Chinese have been copying the Miyota for even longer!

So the 5513 w/ the Explorer dial- that's an MBW? I didn't know that MBW put out an Explorer dial.

I wouldn't put it past WM9 to use pics of the gen. A few years ago he used to sell an ETA noob sub for around $500 when the other dealers here were selling it for $200-250- I actually bought Paul's ETa noob for $159- but that was 1-1/2 to 2 years ago before the dollar went to hell. Or he could use the 2824-2 movt. and get better crown position. We've seen how the 2824-2 will fit in the 16200 series of Datejust cases when you're building a franken. Personally, I'd buy Trusty's DJ and put the extra money in my pocket. I just don't trust WM9 that much and a DJ rep is going to fool 99.9% of the people anyway. I did notice that Trusty's has the Roman numeral VIII under the eight o'clock marker so at least that fault has been corrected on this dial.

Timezone has an online school- two courses that you could take. But like anything else, it requires a commitment of time and money- maybe $500-700 for tools and courses. I found a watchmaker instead who will work on my reps and build my frankens.

I looked at your other post and I think your watch movement is an ETA- balance jewel looks good, engraved rotor, engraving of 2824-2 on the plate, general fit and finish. I question Ziggy's statement above since all of my ETA's in reps are gold- but I do agree that they are surplus as Rob says. Gold ones also come from asia no doubt- just not in sealed packages. The majority of clones that I've seen are also gold, but there are also nickel colored ones out there, too. One last note, jcmiro, your last pic of the ETA movement- it has a little piece over the rotor that says Rolex- 25 jewels- it's just a little glue on metallic sticker- you can pop it off with a knife or razor. It would be interesting to do that so that you can see if your rotor underneath is engraved. Over tha last year or so we've seen an increasing number of clones in the marketplace. They are not bad movements and I agree with Pix, if you get one in a watch that was supposed to have an ETA, about the best you can do is try to get a price adjustment from your dealer- it's not the end of the world. Asian 21j, clone or ETA- anyone of them could need to be serviced at some point- sooner or later- there are no guarantees.

My internet is driving me crazy- I tried to respond but it ain't working- maybe tomorrow it'll be better. Heck maybe it's working now, but I got to go out.

Wow rodwc, you seem to be getting kinda upset. I happen to agree with Chris- Eurotimez, that the first three pics are probably a clone movement- first clue is that the rotor doesn't have "Twenty-Five Jewels 25 Swiss Made" on it. Of course, the pic isn't the best, and you can't tell if it says 2836-2 under the balance, but that is no guarantee these days anyway. The clones are typically gold (that I've seen). Chris wasn't being derogatory, he was just giving his educated opinion. I happen to agree with him and John G who said- asian, asian, and ETA. I'm not putting Josh down, just giving my opinion.

Check the sales corner at Timezone- there are some guys who sell leather straps for reasonable prices there. There was a seller on ebay- Rich Crumpton, who used to sell Rolex buckles- silver or gold for around $18. You might have to email him cause last time I saw his stuff he didn't have any buckles listed, maybe the Rolex dogs are getting after him. The strap has to be 19 x 16- 19mm at the lugs, 16 at the buckle. The buckles have little springbars so they are easy to remove.