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There's a 5508 and a 6538, but no 5538! Anyway, it should not click as chrgod says and should go either direction. You can pop the bezel off and play with the wire to tighten it up, as I recall. Some of them come with the little click pin and you can remove that and then it will turn either way. The 16800 was the first sub to have the one way, counterclockwise turning bezel. Before that 1680, 1665, 5513, and earlier subs were bi-directional- no click.

Crown position on a vintage MBW isn't that bad- say like a 1680. The crown guards still need to be modded and they are too fat to begin with, but 99.9% of the people aren't going to notice. I think what POTR is referring to is that the MBW/MBK route is the most reasonable costwise. You can go a step up to the Vietnamese dealers like NDTrading Corp or Jewelry and Watch which have expensive vintage cases and maybe better dials, but at that point you almost have to put a Rolex movement in there and that runs at least a grand (US dollars) for the movement, so you've got a $2500 franken or more by the time it's over. The sky is the limit when you go from the rep to franken watch world This 5508 is a franken with a Rolex 1520 movt- over $2000 to build, quite a bit more than an MBW- say you spend $400 for the MBW, put $200-300 in improvements into it, you have a $700 watch. Third option is something like this: An inexpensive CN rep, put a better pearl in it, $25-30, mod the cg's yourself, put a better dial in- I spent $150 for a better 5513 dial, greased the o-rings and off I go- a cheap beater- ready for swimming and snorkling. A little over $300 in it for me. So it really boils down to how much do you want to spend!

Yes, that is a noobmariner.

OK, ITK, for the clarification. I guess Andrew is calling it Retro because it has lugholes. And yes it has IHS, but it doesn't look all that bad to me, but Frank and Freddy are more familiar w/ GMT's- Subs are more of my specialty.

Stephane, here's a 168000 with the 3035 movement. Look at the bridge holding the balance- it's a single positioned bridge. The 3135 has the balance bridge which spans the entire balance wheel and is anchored on each side. Interwatches says 916 steel, but it's 316 steel (typo) on the older 16800. The datewheel should be the old style with the open sixes and nines and round top threes. Date mag on this model is awfully small- replacement crystal, maybe? Datewheel goes in the opposite direction from the 3135, so they are not interchangeable. http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLEX-Mens-SUBMARINER-...1QQcmdZViewItem 140246163811 is the item # on the bay Like MM says, the 3035 wasn't as successful as the 1570 movt. And Rolex replaced it with the 3135 which has been in use for 20 years now, but Rolex keeps making improvements to that movement, also. Oh, BTW, correct bracelet end pieces are 593's on the 16800 and it looks like also the 168000.

The difference between the 16800 and 16610 cases is because of the movements and the stem positions relative to the case. The 3035 stem sits lower, hence the thinner rehaut and the 3135 stem sits higher, requiring a case with greater rehaut, to keep the stem/crown centered in the approximate middle of the case. Stem position on the 2836 closely approximates the 3035 movement and the 2824 is close to the 3135. I've always wondered why the rep makers couldn't use the 2824 in a Sub case and get the correct rehaut and crown position. Instead, they continue to use the 2836 and even on the MBW/MBK cases, the rehaut is fine, but the crown is still too low. A 2892-2 would also have a higher crown position and it's a very good movement- probably comparable to the 3135 in qa lot of respects.

Very nice job Stephane! I'm really surprized you were able to fit a gen dial in a noob case. I guess I'll have to take apart one of my noobs tonite and see what I can do. Of course, then I have to get the lugholes drilled. BTW, the 16800 had the 3035 movement, as did the 168000. And yes, the 168000 had the new 904L steel, whereas the 16800 had the 316L as did all of the previous Rolex watches. The 16610 has the 3135 movt and the 904L steel. All 3 were available at the same time from Rolex around 1988/89.

When you say Retro, are you referring to the Vintage GMT, like the early 1675? In that case the correct hand stack actually is GMT hand on the bottom, hour, minute and seconds on top. So the 2836-2 works just fine. Also, the IHS (incorrect hand stack) GMTII's are generally problem free, just not accurate when compared to the gen.

Welcome to this forum, and I hope you learn a ton. Stay away from goreplicas, unless you like being ripped off! Correct, there is only one 27jewel ETA movement- the 7753. So goreplicas is full of lies! Watchmaker9 is OK, but pricey. You need to check out the noobmariner Yachtmaster- it's highly regarded. Use the search feature to check it out.

I don't know what the differences between the 5513 insert and the modern submariner insert, 315-16800, are in this case, but a real 5513 insert would be an all acrylic pearl w/o a metal surround. The 315-16800 insert is the one used by bklm1234 when he mods his subs. http://www.watchmaterial.com/viewitem.asp?idProduct=366 But in this case the pearl in the 5513 insert may work just fine, it just wouldn't be correct if you were going to use it in a vintage Rolex.

Certainly 320 wet/dry, then 400, 600 and finally 1000 would work. You could even start with like a 200 grit wet/dry. B-T showed doing it with a very thin needle file along the insides. Gioarmani had a tutorial showing how to do it w/ sandpaper. Neither involved removing the crown as I recall, but masking it and the case tube can't hurt. You don't want the filings getting in there. I usually remove the movement and crown, tape the tube and then polish when I'm done filing and rinse and clean the case before I reassemble the watch.

Here's a vintage one, sort of. It's the 1964 Re-Edition Carrera. It came out in the 90's with a Lemania manual wind movement. The original 1964 Carrera had the Valjoux 72, but the V72 went out of production in the early eighties- replaced by the 7750, od course.

Pre Sales! I'm hoping Chris can get this watch- no rehaut engraving, with lugholes, 'cause I'm dying for a vintage case to build a 16800- the one with the matt dial, open 6's and 9's on the date wheel, 93150 bracelet, 593 end pieces- shite, I'm so frustrated, I even when out and bought a gen. I've had all the other parts for over a year- you just can't find the case! I've already got a noob- kinda like the bkmariner- with a gen crown, the second better pearl- lost the first WM pearl, and it's WR to 4 atm- great $200 watch- here it is next to my gen 16800 matt dial on the left- but I'm still bound and determined to build the 16800 rep.

And remember, the asian copy is relatively new, so it takes an experienced eye to tell the difference. How many watchmakers are even familiar with this new breed of cat? We here on the forum probably see more of this than the average watchmaker because of the nature of our business- it may sound trite, but we are really on the cutting edge in this regard, so to speak.

I'm not even sure if the Euromariner is available yet! The one w/o the Rolex rehaut printing, noob dial, etc. and DG2813 movt is still in the works- so stay tuned. It's going to run around $275. The MBW 16610 is available for $400 w/ eta, don't know whether it has rehaut printing or not. So you may just have to sit back and wait, or you could get with Chris and get your order in early- be the first one on your block. BTW, noob case is larger than gen, dial is 28+mm, etc. Maxi dial only goes on the 50th anniv LV Subs. You probably need to email Chris (Eurotimez) to get the answers you need.

BK uses the noobmariner w/ eta movt for his sub and then mods the cg's, uses the more correct new rep crown and tube, WM pearl and checks for WR. The service he provides is a good value for the price and no further mods are necessary. But the noobmariner is a two year old watch. The newest Euromariner, the MBW/MBK and the WM9 are all based on a better case- correct rehaut, better bezel assembly- more like the gen, the watch will accept a gen crystal and bezel insert. With the noob dial and datewheel on the Euromariner, this is the best out of the box sub we've seen to date.

I would think so.

I guess a Swiss 2824-2 would work and should have the same hand sizes- 90/150/25. Check out Ofrei or JulesBorel- but those are basically surplus movements and may be dirty or need a servicing. Maybe your watchmaker could service the movement you've got- but I was reading yesterday that Ziggy has had some problems regulating the copy movts.

Very nice Laz. That watch looks beautiful! I like the lume shots, the 501B end pieces, just a great looking watch- as B-T says, understated. Enjoy.

Looks like an asian copy eta. No Swiss Made-25 jewels on the rotor. Also, a 2824-2 is not typical for the 1680 Red Sub- should be a 2836-2. But, heck, maybe it's a 2836 copy that was incorrectly labeled, or maybe they managed to fit a 2824 in there. I wouldn't worry about the noisy rotor if the watch is keeping good time- it's probably the least of your worries!

Only 1:1 cases are the Watchmaker 9 and the new MBK/MBW. Eurotimez's new MBK with the noob dial and asian 21j movement should be cool- hope to see it out soon.

Yep, pull the pearl out of the watchmaterial insert, enlarge the hole slightly on the jewelry outlet insert and glue-in the WM pearl. Then file the back of the insert so that it will sit lower in the bezel of your sub. If you become a supporter, you will gain access to the collector area. BKLM1234 does this mod for his bkmariners- a nicely modded noobmariner with the ETA movt, trimmed cg's, better crown and tube and checked for WR. Nothing beats a gen insert, but the watchmaterial pearl is an economical upgrade- I just put mine in the noob insert because I think the noob insert is fine, with the exception of the pearl- and the pearl in the noob insert varies from a 'zit' pearl to a really not too bad, just slightly smaller pearl. We tend to get slightly anal about some of this stuff, but you've probably figured that out by now!

If you get a genuine insert- say you find one on ebay for $75 or maybe more- then the only challenge is to install it in your sub w/o tearing it up. Or you can get the watchmaterial pearl and the jewelryoutlet insert and install the pearl in the insert w/o tearing them up and then install them in your sub, again, w/o tearing them up. The watchmaterial pearl isn't bad, but if you have a gen insert, you are always golden.

None of the dealers sell a fully modded rep. They just sell reps. So if you want to buy a modded rep, you're going to have to ante up some money and become a supporter of the forum so you can have access to the member sales area (and also the dealers area). A modded rep would have to come from the members, but you could find a decent 50th LV sub from the dealers here and proceed to have the mods done or learn to do them yourself. The key here is to keep reading, use the search feature and learn. Welcome aboard.

I own a couple of gen subs, a 1680 and a 16800. But right now I'm wearing my noobmariner. I paid $99 for this watch from River, it's the one with the eta clone movt. Put a gen crown and tube on it, a couple of better pearls- lost one, trimmed the cg's and it's been tested for WR to 4 atm. The watch is a great beater and I love it because I don't have to worry about tearing it up. I guess that is why I love these reps. And I've learned how to mod these watches myself by hanging out here. I'm just waiting for Eurotimez to come out with the Euromariner (hopefully with lugholes). Then I'll be building the next beater! Some guys around here are building great watches for $500-1000 and that's a whole lot less than a new 16610 at $5850 plus tax. And let's face it, no one can really tell that they aren't the real thing- these watches are just too damn good! 16800 on the left, noob on the right: