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Don't forget that River has the Noobmariner with the eta clone movement- it was running $120 last time I checked. Mine keeps great time- better than my gen 1680- guess it's time to get the 1680 adjusted! I just looked for it on his website and it wasn't there- you could email him. Paul and Andrew have the Noobmariner with the ETA movt. Always a strong choice.

Thanks for the update freddy. Those prices are pretty outrageous, but it makes me like my frankens all that much more.

Don't get hung up on the caseback. In 1964, Rolex put stuff together a little differently than they do today- heck the whole world was different and machining was no where near what it is today. The case back was hand stamped. There is no doubt that you can buy parts and build a 6238- I'm in the process of doing it myself right now. And as you do that maybe you pick up a book like "Rolex Daytona, a legend is born" by Pergola, Mazzariol, & Dosso. This is a great reference for the 6238 thru the 6265. Another site you could check is www.doubleredseadweller.com and check out the Daytona section- it will explain some of the keys to look for in determining if a movement is legitimate or put together. You might check with freddy333 if you're still unconvinced, but this watch is genuine and those pictures of the movement are exactly what you are looking for in a 6238.

That 14060 could be a great watch with a couple of mods- trim the crown guards, maybe a better pearl, and grease the o-rings and check it for WR- then it would be a great beater as they say and I doubt you'd ever get called out (other than the group that always asks, "Oh a Rolex, is it a fake?" And to those turkeys, I put it to my ear and say, "No, it's still ticking.") The 14060 is somewhat understated and that can be good.

That watch is genuine. The things that I like about it are the color of the gears, the Breguet balance, look at the 72B under the balance wheel, ROW on the balance bridge for Rolex Works, pushers are assymetrical (slightly), engravings at 6 and 12 look perfect. The dial pic isn't the best, but the spacing of the sub dials looks good, lume is shot (and to be expected on a 45 year old watch), and the bracelet is fine from what I can see of it. And the seller is excellent. Just wish I could justify spending $28K on a watch, cause it's a beaut.

We refer to this watch as having a 'wok-like rehaut'. We are referring to the way the inside ring between the crystal and the dial slopes in- like a WOK. Probably an asian 21j movement inside. Bracelet isn't very good- maybe a $25-50 watch over in Hong Kong. But welcome to RWG! There are better subs like the noobmariner, or beginmariner for not a whole lot more money. Here's Josh's version: http://www.pc-80108.com/rlss10009-black-be...ing-p-2303.html This watch also comes with the ETA movement for around $100 more. Then you can mod them and make them even more accurate. Hope you enjoy the hobby, it can be a blast.

Andrew's 1665 DRSD and his Red Submariner 1680 aren't as nice as the MBW/MBK classics which take genuine crystals and inserts. But they also don't cost $350+. His Bond subs with no crown guards are OK with the "supposedly" Swiss ETA movts. I guess they're really ETA, but who can say these days. Paul's are a little cheaper with eta clone movts. http://www.pam111.com/product_info.php?cPa...roducts_id=1811 And of course, Silix's come with the asian 21j movement and are the least espensive. I believe Silix also carries the Bond subs w/ Swiss ETA's so it really comes down to what you want to spend. Silix's eta Bond sub might also be a little less than Andrew's If you don't know what you want, maybe the Silix with the 21j asian movt. is a good place to start- you really can't go wrong for around $85.

I agree with freddy, but also, you don't say what movement is in your sub. And have you found a watchmaker? Maybe you just go buy another sub, like a noobmariner from Eurotimez, or a beginmariner from Josh. And is your sub new? Can you send it back to the dealer? But I don't bother sending watches back to China- my watchmaker is ten blocks away and I just have him service/fix them- it's quicker and easier for me. Sure it may cost a few dollars more, but what the heck, the dollar is cheap these days!

Congrats on your new DJ. The Datejust rep is one of the best in that people can't really distinguish it from the gen unless they open the caseback and see the movement. Enjoy your new rep.

About a year ago Ziggy did a review of a clone movement. The quality of the clone movement is fairly decent- maybe not quite the same as an eta in every respect, but good. Is it clean and properly oiled? That's another question, but like a lot of the Chinese movements, with proper servicing, they can be very dependable. And don't forget, the same holds true for our eta movements in reps- they are also not necessarily clean and properly oiled- they are 'surplus' movements as Ziggy says. With the future availability of eta movements in question, I think the clones are a welcome development and I look forward to continued improvements fron China- even now we are seeing the 2892-2 being cloned as well as other movements. This is all good for our hobby- we'll have movements for our reps for the forseeable future. I'm not too sure about the difference between Incabloc and Novodiac, but I wouldn't worry about it too much.

It's going to be hard to tell the clone 2836 from the true 2836 eta. Paul had some pics at one time comparing the two- the variation is in the printing and small details like the jewel on the balance arm, the rotor bearings, etc. Look at this last pic in the ad for this vintage sub with the eta clone movt, and compare for yourself. http://www.pam111.com/product_info.php?products_id=1810

Makes sense, since Rolex dates sit left of the eta dates which is what a Tudor uses- but then I'd suspect that the Tudor case is also slightly different.

Pearl looks good, and the font of the numbers is OK- not too thick. Looks good to me.

CousinsUK has a chart of round special forms plastic topglass in their plastic crystal section- these are SternKreuz crystals. ID of a T-19 is 279, OD is 305. That means 27.9mm and 30.5mm. The T-125 is 295 and 303 so it won't fit the inside ring of a 5513 case. They show a T-127 (for the 1680) but they don't show the ID, OD is 303- so it's close on the OD. Ofrei's has some charts on aftermarket T-19's. The sizes vary somewhat- Lovely... And of course, when you're talking rep cases, who knows what you'll run up against. I do recommend a set of digital calipers for $10-20 from Harbor Freight. Info on Rolex Tropic crystals is hard to come by- it gave me fits on my 5508!

Removing the caseback on my Watchmaster Red 1680 is equally as hard. I put it in a movement holder, put the movement holder in the woodworking vice, take the Bergeon tool and press down hard and try to turn it. Not easy. The L-G Openall would be another option, but I don't feel like spending the $50-60 for only one watch- every other Rolex is fairly easy to open. Don't know if it's cross threaded or not. I don't trust it for WR either, but I've got some other reps and gens for that.

I got mine last week. $90 shipping included, here in the USA. It certainly is a 'must' for the Rolex aficionado, but I'm not sure if I agree with everything written in there. But since Rolex never comments, there is no definitive answer to some of these fine points of ephemera.

Rolex Roy is all wet and is throwing out model numbers which are totally incorrect. I found + crowns on early subs- 6204 and 6205 and the first 6538 from 1955. 5508 is definitely a 6mm crown like POTR says. There is a lot of misinformation on the bay and you have to watch out.

As I recall, the dial was maybe 29mm, but I don't recall what the rehaut ring inner diameter was- maybe 28+mm. A genuine Rolex dial is 27.4mm or so and it is too small for this case. Rep dials are typically 28.5mm. It's not a bad case, I've thought about reluming the dial, maybe put a gen crown and tube on, trim the cg's and put on a better pearl. It has a mineral/sapphire crystal but no date mag. Make it a military Rolex w/ an unsigned dial!

I put a 6mm crown and tube on my 5508 from NDT. And that is the correct one. I did have to tap the case hole and I used the 24-603 crown and tube. The 5.3mm tube is smaller so it won't fit the case hole. Old style 6mm crowns are different from the new style ones so you have to use the correct corresponding tube. Also, you do have an o-ring in the crown? Otherwise it won't seal.

I bought this rolex knock-off from the same guy- watchesu571- back in October: http://cgi.ebay.com/MILITARY-SUBMARINER-AU...1QQcmdZViewItem I knew it wasn't a Swiss movement (it's actually a PTS Resources movt- like the DG 2813, etc.) but I was buying it for the case- hoping to luck out and get a TW Best w/ lugholes. The case has lugholes, but it isn't a TW Best- oh well. Haven't figured out what to do with it at this point.

You can fit an aftermarket bezel insert, but most people just put a better pearl in, like the one from www.watchmaterial.com. But this week when I was looking at their site, I couldn't find any of their bezel inserts. I didn't get around to calling their 800 number. I wonder if the rolex police got after them. Smoothing the edges of the bracelet with 600 grit sandpaper and/or polish will take the sharp edges off. Enjoy your watch.

Well it can be done, but it ain't easy. Somewhere between here and RWI, bklm1234 described how to do it w/ pics also. It's been a while since he posted it. Most people just pop off theinsert and leave the bezel itself alone- much safer on the fingers!

just looked thru jules borel and ofrei but couldn't find the ST-24. My River noob (eta copy 2836) has operated flawlessly for 8-10 months- don't know if it's a ST- Seagull movt or not. Of course, you can still get a 2824-2 from jules borel for $71.35 plus some shipping. But I figure these eta copies have to be a good thing for us- keeps us in watches! Thanks jimmy

It's pretty simple to uncase the movement and reset the hands so that the date changes at the correct time- It's a $20 fix, which beats sending it back to China IMO. I'm with yaron on this one- find a good watchmaker.

The 14060 is a different case which explains the shallower rehaut- no date feature makes for a thinner movement- I believe it's a 3130 movt. Also, it takes a different bezel insert, as I recall. You should be able to pick up one for around $3K, or at least you used to be able to- Rolex prices are going up as we speak because of the weak dollar.