edgematic1

Let me reply on the datewheel font. The rep is correct. The FC diver was release when AP didn't update their font yet. During production they changed it. They changed it on the entire ROO line. Do a quick search on Google and you will notice I'm right. The triangle seems correct to me. The difference between rep and gen lies mostly within the FC pattern. Although since j12 factory updated the FC diver with their new cases it's now even harder to tell rep from gen. The crystal changed as well it seems, it looks more clear than before.

Haha, I even enjoy it by watching it wind on my winder!

Thanks! Sticky request sent to the mods.

Thanks!!!

That is something I don't know either. It looks filled up with SS. Same for the caseback, he re-engraves it after the old engraving is filled up. I have no idea how...

Buddy, I totally agree with you. What you loose is indeed the case and mod work but compared to the total cost it's not a big loss. Next to that I think a Franken ap will get sold fairly easy if it's priced fair.

Thanks guys! I forgot a lume shot... @AJ: Send me a PM

Friends, Since I get quite a lot of PM's with questions about frankens I decided to write this thread. An AP franken is something special so it deserves it. hehe Basically this thread is about "How to build an AP franken?!" what you need and what to do. 1st step Since it's quite an expensive build, think about it, if you want it. If you are happy enough with the current reps, then don't do it. If you want something special closer to gen and you have the cash to spend, you are passionate about AP and/or you love the pieces then do it. Investment wise, I'm pretty sure you can get back what you invested. Parts are rare, the parts price alone you can sell and get your investment back. The case will go lost since only a franken AP uses this case. The 1st step I propose is thinking about the project. Also bear in mind, this is a special project and it needs time!!! My ultimate franken project took about 1,5 year to get completed. Don't get stressy, find everything you want to get your own personal build. Patience is needed!!! 2nd step If you decided to move on and take on the project then take a look at the regular AP dials, a limited edition dial is very very hard, nearly impossible to get. Once you have a dial you like then look for one. Ask around, contact some grey dealers that sell AP, for example in diamond districts etc. Contact some workshops that customize watches, like diamond setting etc. The price you should pay for a dial and tachy should be between $700 - $1200 (MAX!). I have now bought 7 dials in total, and these are the prices I have paid. 3rd step Once you bought a dial and tachy you need to look for an LWO movement. These are harder to get these days. Contact some watchsmiths, wholesalers etc. What you need is a Dubois Depraz module 2000 on an ETA2892 movement. If they don't come with canon pinion or hour wheel, don't worry, those are available to order. As for the cyclopse, you can use the rep cyclopse or if a cyclopse came with a movement you can use that as well. A few years back Uwe (finedd) made some cyclopses with a blue-purple AR coating, those are good as well. My advise, try to get one with that coloured coating. Gens came with purplish AR hue. The price of an LWO movement used to be $350 for a NOS movement. Right now I bought 3 movements, fully serviced with cannon pinion and hour wheel + cyclops at $550, sold them to some great members at the same price. Those came from 3 donor watches. As for donor watches, old Tag Heuers, Baume & Mercier, Chopard, Longines, Etienne Schwarz, Girard Perregaux used these movements. Ask around and you should be able to find this. Look on eBay as well, there was a set of 10 pieces Etienne Schwarz LWO's sold somewhere below $4.200. Divide it by 10 and you get a price below $420 per piece, canon pinion, hour wheel and cyclopse included. 4rd step I would propose to search for a datewheel I made, 1:1 to gen spec, unfortunately those are sold out but maybe some members have a spare one. Price for a new one was $61 shipped 5th step Depending on the build you want, search for gen hands, bezel, crystal, pushers and crown, this will be the hardest part imo for the search. This is not needed for a build, if you don't need this, skip this step. Basically the biggest difference between gen and rep hands is the shape. The center of the gen hands (hour and minute)is smaller vs the rep hands. The subdial hands look similar, though the rep hands won't fit immediately on to the LWO movement. This needs a slight modification. The gen pushers and crown use a different rubber substance, a more durable kind of rubber. Offcourse the crown is much better than the rep but, I feel if you want a gen crown you also need gen pushers due to the same aging process of the rubber. The gen crown does work on a rep crown tube, at least when I tried, hehe. The problem with the gen pushers is that when installed they sit a bit too deep vs the rep. If they sit too deep it's not 1:1 as per gen, with the reps it's much closer imo. Price for hands: $345 - $555 Price for pushers and crown: $280 - $450 A gen bezel is different than the rep, it needs a gen crystal gasket as well and gen screws too as the rep screws are slightly too large. A gen bezel is quite expensive. I bought 2 bezels, 1 second hand between $140 - $345 and 1 6th step buy a donor watch, the rep $518 7th step This step is not necessary at all! But I try to offer a guideline with steps to get closer to gen. This step includes the case milling to the correct thickness as per gen. The cost is $550. 8th step Once all of the above is done you will need to search for a competent watchmaker to perform these mods. Discuss the work on before hand, discuss the price and try to arrange a price on beforehand. I am open about the price I paid my watchmaker for the work, pricing was €300 for the modding work (drilling crown tube hole, shaving caseback, making movement ring, adjusting movement to COSC norms, re-engrave caseback, complete assembly) and shipping with UPS next day delivery was included. This to give an idea. 9th step Enjoy wearing your piece... TOTAL PRICE OF A PROJECT LIES BETWEEN USD 3.795 - 4.850. From my experience.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey guys, This thread is something that some of you were waiting for. A thread about my ultimate franken. I feel I have taken this franken to a much higher level compared to the current existing frankens on the forums that we know off. Basically the story starts in June-July 2012, I wanted to build my own franken so I started looking for parts. Sourcing a dial was easy, in fact I bought several dials, being a blue classic baton dial, grey dial, black rubberclad dial, safari dial, white rubberclad dial, black themes dial. All of them except the safari and white rubberclad dial were sold to nice members here. I even assisted two of them with their build. After studying the current frankens I was not pleased with them. They look close but in fact they are not that close. All of them have the flaw of the mid case that is too thick. Next to that, all of the frankens around have thinned rubber gaskets between the bezel and the midcase, which is wrong too! The replica rubber gasket is 1:1 as per gen, believe it or not, both on front and on the back of the case. So I wanted to keep this correct. Above you see an example of a current existing franken compared with a gen on top, notice the differences?! To me these are huge differences, but I’m a nitpicker. Offcourse I knew this would make the project more difficult but it’s an adventure and I’m a perfectionist so I wanted to find out how to. I was able to buy a gen rubberclad bezel with gen screws, then I also bought a gen crystal and crystal gasket set as well as genuine rubber gaskets (not really necessary). The gen bezel cannot use rep screws. It also needs a gen crystal. Here you see why: (gen on the left, rep on the right) (gen on the left, rep on the right) The gen screws are smaller at the head and have a thicker head as well. Another important thing about a rubberclad bezel is the fact that AP uses a stainless steel bezel with a rubber coating on top. The rep rubber bezel is pure rubber and plastic. The difference in quality is big imo. Here you see some comparison shots: (gen on bottom, rep above) (rep) (gen) (rep on top, gen on bottom) Also, on the forums there is a lot of whining about the gen crystal having AR etc. Well, I have a gen crystal and it does not have any AR!!! So AR’ing your crystal might look nice and does look nice imo but I don’t like it as the AR hue makes it a huge tell. If you however decide to AR your crystal, get a proper coating on the inside of the crystal. Some pics of gen vs rep crystal: (gen on the right) (gen on the right) (gen on the right) (gen on the right) I also bought a gen set of pushers and a crown, but I decided not to use these as the pushers sit too deep in the case which makes it less gen like. As you can see the gen and rep screws are slightly different: I started off by milling my mid-case to the correct height as per gen. Therefor I used a gen piece and measured everything side by side. A cool feature is that there is a slight difference in height on the mid case, this on the outside of the gasket channel and the inside of the gasket channel. So, after the milling the midcases got blasted a second time and there I had my 1:1 thickness midcase. The cyclops I bought from Uwe 2 years or 3 years ago (with purplish blue AR, closer to gen!). Since I was building a white rubberclad my datewheel window had to be matte black as per gen. So I disassembled the Dubois Depraz 2000 module from the ETA2892 movement, pushed out the window, sanded it, painted it and installed it back. (on the photo above the incorrect datewheel is visible. It’s quite good but not close enough to me) In the meanwhile I was able to install my gen spec datewheel as well. This datewheel is also part of my project and to help other members with their build. Everyone was using the LWO datewheel which is always wrong. I wanted mine to be correct as per gen, what is the point of making a franken? So I did the datewheel production, which was a success. After installing mine I was even more pleased with the project. I was able to install the hands, datewheel, cyclopse and dial on my own. The tachyring was easy to install as well. But for the drilling of the case, to replace the crown tube I needed a competent watchmaker. Therefor I contacted a German watchmaker (not Domi ) to do the work. He is the watchmaker of a watch customizing company. He agreed to do the work as it was a very nice project. I also asked him if he was able to change the caseback engraving, he said he would take care of it. He also suggested to make a custom movement ring as he felt this watch needs it. Imo it does need it. The gen piece also uses a movement ring. So, after a while he finished the job of the assembly and I received my watch. The only thing I have to do now is blast the caseback, brush the caseback with the circular finish and then it’s completely done! I can attest that my AP White rubberclad has a thickness of 14.52mm, gen is 14.50mm in height. I did not shave any rubber gaskets, only caseback and midcase. Which makes my piece amazingly close to gen. Specs: - Gen bezel - Gen gaskets (all of them) - Gen screws - Gen crystal + gasket - Gen hands (all of them) - Gen dial and tachyring - Rep crown and pushers (closer to gen dimension wise) - Rep midcase with my own milling mod + sandblasting - Rep caseback with custom engraving - Rep rubber strap (no need to go gen, I sold my gen rubber strap) - Sead’s deployant. Imo the best one available as it has the proper stamps - LWO 283 movt. NOS with custom Edge datewheel Total cost is about €3250 - €3500 (USD 4.485 - 4.850), but the joy I got with this build is priceless! That’s about it. I hope you guys enjoyed it and I hope it was a helpful read. Any questions, just shoot. Thanks!

Lovely! is the datewheel on the V5 updated or am I just seeing it wrong?

Thanks! This is built with pure love! Will post a full thread tomorrow!

900 euro's???????? My franken work was 300 euro's! More work and less money! Damn... Will work on my franken thread tomorrow .

It's a 39mm, but wears bigger due to the case shape.

Different day, same watch

Guess what?! More to come very very very soon!!!

Thanks guys!!!

It wears like an AP diver, the rubber strap is stiff.

I wrot a nice review with info on this piece. It should be on here.

I wrote a huge review but couldn't post it, I cannot use the image extension while it's just pics from photobucket, strange...

7 inch should be fine mate. Go try at the AD and then decide.

The white one is the Angus 15400 rep . I love the Panda roc! Very happy with it .