freddy333

THE PLAN: Take 1 of these Out of 1 of these Cover it with 1 of these Throw on a set of these And put it all into 1 of these THE DILEMMA: This dial has been discussed recently in another thread, but now that I have it in my hands I can add a few more details for anyone else considering one. The factory did a wonderful job on the text -- the 1st time I have handled a non-gen DRSD dial that could have fooled me (at least from the distance of the length of an arm, which is my benchmark for success). Where they faltered (and they always screw something up) is their use of the usual, weird yellowish color that is supposed to mimic 'age' or 'patina' on the index markers. The 6 & 9 markers are also just a bit too narrow. Not so narrow that they stick out as being wrong when viewing the dial through a T39, but they could do with having more meat on their bones. So, to pull the project all together, the color of the hands will need to match the color of the index markers on the dial, and, if possible, the 2 slightly narrow index markers should be pumped up a bit. SOME OF THE POSSIBILITIES: The index markers are actually a slightly darker shade of yellow than they appear in the picture -- a shade that most of the older members will be quite familiar with. I guess if the hands matched them, the watch would be passable. But I have never seen a really accurate man-made patina, so I would prefer to stick with white (or off-white/cream) index markers. My preference (as always) is for white over simulated 'patina', but changing the color of the hands sure would be alot easier. So I need to find a way to darken the hands to match the existing dark yellow color of the index markers on the dial, or whiten the index markers on the dial to match the hands. I have considered 3 options Re-lume the dial with either Night Color or Bergeon lume paste (the latter would provide a more realistic color and weak lume glow). Maybe (I have not tested this yet, so, to the best of my knowledge, it is only a theory) bleach would whiten them? I was thinking that maybe if I dampen (not soak) a Q-tip with bleach and then lightly dab the markers, the little droplets of bleach might migrate into & through the granules of the lume and do what they do naturally -- whiten & brighten (remove color). Send the dial to the Zigmeister & let an artist practice his arts on it. Any thoughts?

Most vintage Daytona reps use either a standard self-winding Asian 7750 or manual-wind Lemania/Venus movement. Between the 2, the latter is probably the better choice since the gen watches were manual-wind. But the vintage gen Daytonas all had what are known as an asymmetrical pusher layout, meaning the 2 pushers were unevenly spaced relative to the crown that lies between them So no matter how accurate the watch is otherwise, having symmetrical (evenly spaced) pushers is a sure give-away that the watch is a rep to anyone familiar with Daytonas (a very small subset of the general population). However, if you are willing to pay more, you can purchase a rep from DW that has the correct asymmetrical pushers. You can check his Daytona ad in the Supporters Trade Area (you must be a Supporter to access this section of RWG) or contact him through his ioffer store.

I am not sure about the date font (too much space between the numbers & font may be incorrect for this vintage) & if you trim the CGs (they cover a bit too much of the crown) & replace the crown/tube with a gen (the rep crowns are too wide), the picture would just about fool me.

Joshua is a reliable collector & I have considered getting one of these also. Unless she does not like Rolex watches (many women do not), your wife should love it. As an alternative, you might consider getting the same model but with the mother of pearl dial. Women tend to prefer that one for some reason. I would avoid getting a watch with jewels because women can usually tell they are CZ, which makes the watch look fake.

Plexiglas hides fingerprints better, too.

My advice is to take a trip to your local Rolex AD and try 1 or 2 Daytonas on your wrist. Do not worry that the AD does not have the steel models in stock.......you are just trying to get an overall impression of the model, which will be the same throughout the Daytona line. The purpose here is just to familiarize yourself with the way the watch fits & feels on your wrist & its overall appearance (the glass-like quality of the metal finish, the clarity of the printing on the dial, etc.). Specifically, note the appearance of the caseback and location of the subdials at 3 & 9 relative to the location of the 3 & 9 o'clock index markers. When you get home, go to rolex.com and look at the pictures of the genuine Daytonas again. Then open Silix's site & compare the rep Daytona with the genuine Daytonas. If you have done your homework, you will then begin to see some of the many differences. If you feel lucky, check out Joshua's Daytonas & compare those to the Silix model.

I have only used dots one time & there was some adhesive on them that broke down during the following summer and migrated onto the movement. Not a pretty picture. What Ziggy described is exactly what I have found to be the case. Once the watch is assembled, the dial gets sandwiched into place between the case & movement & does not move around as long as the movement is properly held in place.

What is missing on the inside of Phong's caseback? It looks fine to me.....I see it even has your custom serial number engraved on it.

The Silix Daytona is not very accurate & it does not function the same as the current gen Daytona 116520. But it should run well because its movement is good & reliable. Your conclusion is right -- there is not a reliable & accurate rep of the current model Daytona (1165xx). If you want reliability AND an accuracy, you will need to buy a gen or you could construct one of the slightly older Daytonas (16520) by sourcing a Zenith El Primero movement (or 1 of the variants), a gen Daytona 16520 case & assemble the watch yourself -- cost $2k-$3k+.

You have to love those old Explorer designs -- they make the perfect project watch because their simplicity (and relative rarity on the street) makes them hard to ID as a rep, especially when constructed to this level of detail. Excellent work, Stilty.

I place my bet for a final sale in the neighborhood of $160k +/- $10k.

I am familiar with the model & variations of it, but I have never seen the lines surrounding the index markers extending beyond the rectangle like they do on that (repainted) dial. But I agree it could probably be modified with a bit of strategically placed black paint & a matte finish. But it would require the talents of an artist (I am thinking Ziggy here) to do it right.

Prototye Rolex

If it is Wednesday, it must be the beater

That would be insane & the price is still a bit excessive, but he is talking about a fully-assembled 1665 franken, including the gen movement, crystal, etc., etc. The cost is about the same as what you might pay for a gen Sub. Still irrational, but with Antiquorum about to auction off a gen 1665 with an expected selling price between $100k-$150k, it does makes some sense if you want one but cannot afford the gen's price tag. At this level of the game, I think you are dealing with pure emotion.

Thanks & that is the BIG question. I wonder if Phong would be amenable to more realistic pricing if we made a group buy? I wonder how many people here would be interested if the price was $200? $300? $350? Beyond that, I think it only makes sense for those who have shoehorned a gen 1570 into their MBW or Viet case. Still pondering that fork in the road myself.

The Rolex & Watch Repair forums are strewn with stories from very unhappy owners of dead secs at 6 Daytonas, which is why you need to think twice before buying one. From what I have gathered, 4/5ths of these movements go belly-up within 3 months if worn frequently. But if you are lucky -- really, really lucky -- & have the time, money & skills to do a bit of extra-curricular work, they make great pets (this rare & rarely worn 3.5 year old example is still keeping COSC time)

No, mine has a white dial

Rolex Cosmograph Daytona Ref. 6239 So-called

I agree with Mickey. Unless you like to gamble or feel lucky, I would steer clear of the modern secs at 6 Daytonas. That leaves the vintage models & opens up the dual questions of how much do you consider 'not too expensive' & how close to genuine do you want to go (or are willing to pay for)? You can get some reasonably accurate vintage Daytonas from most of the collectors here for less than $350 (I am partial to the Lemania/Venus-powered manual-wind 62xx models). If you are looking to go up to the next level, Search the Rolex forum for '6263' and my handle.

Phong engraves a serial number on the inside of his casebacks, but that is of no real value to me since I am not planning on selling or appraising my watch. I am only interested in how the caseback looks when fitted on the watch. With proper modding, I think Phong's caseback might do the trick. But I am not sure it is worth the $450 he wants for it. That is the big question...........

Sounds about right.

Alligoat is exactly correct. Peruse the Rolex forums on Timezone.com or the photo collections on Antiquorum.com & use those as your reference. The trimming required depends on which rep you have, which watch you use as a reference & the look you are after. It is not science.

If you are putting serious money & effort into a 1680 project watch, I would go the extra distance & get a gen bracelet (I have never been much of a NATO fan). I think the difference in fit & feel over any rep bracelet is worth the cost for a well constructed franken. I do not have a Sub, but here is my DRSD with its appropriately battered & dented gen 93150 bracelet