freddy333

While my interests tend to lean towards Daytonas, I think that Tudor Monte Carlo is probably the jewel in the crown of your collection. You just do not see many of those around. Me likie.

Just to add to what Alligoat already said, there are 2 types of chronographs -- bi-compax & tri-compax. An example of a bi-compax chronograph is the Valjoux 23, which has 2 subdials - running seconds and a chronograph minute counter. An example of a tri-compax chronograph is the Valjoux 72 (which is the base movement used in vintage Rolex 66xx series Daytonas & many other vintage watches), which has 3 subdials - running seconds, a chronograph minute counter & a chronograph hour counter. The most accurate franken-tonas are powered by the V72, but you can produce a visually similar watch using a slightly less expensive (and dimensionally similar) V23 with the hour subdial 'frozen' at its normal (off) 12 o'clock position on the dial since the V23 does not have a working hour counter. Most reasonably-priced vintage Daytona reps ($200-$350) are powered by any number of modern bi-compax or tri-compax movements. These vary in their functionality & visual accuracy since most of these movements have symmetrical pusher arrangements, which are inaccurate for the vintage gen Daytona models

I would say that either your winders are not providing sufficient 'wind' for the watches (refer to your winder's manual or the watch company's support staff for minimum winding requirements) or there is a problem with some of the watches rotors (the half-moon shaped weights that you can see spinning through clear-back cases). The rotors may be hanging up on something inside the case or their bearings are dry/defective. Assuming it is not a winder issue, you will need to have a watchmaker inspect the watches.

After removing the dial & hands, there will be a pair of plates (with the extra gearing sandwiched between them) that are held together by 3 screws. Removing the screws & the top plate will reveal some of the extra running gears. Remove the white gear to the immediate right of the secs at 6 gear & carefully apply a dab of cement to either the bottom face of the gear or across 1 or 2 of its arms so the cement 'bridges' the top of the gear to 'freeze' the bronze colored secs at 6 gear (I would recommend finger nail polish so it can be removed later, if needed). Or you can just remove the secs at 6 gear altogether & cement the subdial hand directly to the dial. The appearance of the dial (from the outside) will be the same either way since all you normally see is the subdial hand. Note that having a frozen (non-functioning) second hand will, in my opinion, turn your rep into a doorstop, at least as far as visual accuracy goes. The watch will still run & keep time, but since the second hand will remain motionless, it will no longer function or behave like the gen watch it is supposed to replicate (with running seconds at 6). I know that Ziggy recommends & often performs this mod on otherwise dead movements, but I do not really see how having a 'frozen' second hand is any better than having a frozen (dead) watch, unless you are solely interested in keeping time & do not mind wearing a watch that is an obvious 'fake'.

Things may have changed in recent years, but I tried to have a couple rotors (and some other parts) engraved several years ago & they got completely screwed up in the process. I could not really blame the operator after watching her struggling (and giving it a good try) to keep the parts stable & angled correctly in the machine. But like I said, things may be different today, but it was definitely not a pretty sight when I had mine done.

In honor of the 1st NUDE beach in the US opening this day in 1952, I decided to celebrate by wearing something that looks good au naturel

Toni -- I am considering putting a 1570 into my MBW 1665 & was wondering if you could provide some additional details & pictures of the parts of the MBW case you had to dremel to fit the 1570?

Datejust today

Love that pic. But put that watch on a navy blue leather strap (matching the blue numbers on the dial) & it would be tr

Why not get one of these, which are nearly the same quality as the gen Rolex bracelet & then just swap out the generic clasp for the Rolex branded part from the rep bracelet. The fit & feel of these Italian-made bracelets are almost indistinguishable from the Rolex version, so you do not need to worry about oiling or modding them (beyond the swapping of the clasp (or end links if you want to use those also)). If I remember correctly, the first link is even stamped '93150' as on the gen & they had hollow center links. But I would check with the seller to verify this because it has been a couple of years since I bought one & the specs could have changed.

Mezz -- I think the font is too serifed, too 'Western/Wild West'. At least I do not have any pictures of any gen dials with a similar font. And I think the crown suffers the same problem as NDtrading's DRSD dial -- too narrow. I am eager to see how Doc's dial turns out. But after my dealings with NDtrading (I once gave them a list of explicit (and well illustrated) instructions to correct a couple of their existing dials & got a dial with a different set of problems that did not exist on the earlier design), I have come to the conclusion that the only way to get one of these vintage dials done right is to either make it yourself or have it made by a local professional, who will allow you to participate directly in the design/manufacturing process. With Asian dial makers, it always seems like a case of 2 steps forward (more or less) & 1 step backward. The consistency of their inconsistency continues to beg the question of whether the rep makers have agreed not to produce any truly perfect replicas in exchange for a mostly hands-off policy by the gen companies lawyers. More & more, that is the only explanation that makes logical sense to me.

I have never seen a gen dial like that & it looks to new (probably a repaint if it is/was gen). But anything is possible with Rolex, so I would do a thorough check of the seller. Buy the seller before you buy the watch.

No, not a big deal, but it does require time & patience (not to mention attention to detail if you want to be sure the dial appears straight in the case with the reposition feet), and if you are paying a watchmaker to do the work you have to take that into account.

hahaha Only money.......... Someone (I cannot remember who -- KKS maybe???????) managed to get a 1575 into an MBW DRSD case without any serious mods required other than to carve out the semi-circular area on the inside of the case (nearly opposite from the crown as on the gen cases) to fit the 1575's locking screw. I wish I could find that original thread, but I remember he said it went in without any serious problems & everything lined up just as it should. I would expect that anyway since the MBW case is known for its dimensional accuracy, which is why it accepts so many gen parts without modification. But I am still undecided as to whether or not to upgrade the movement. On the one hand, if the dial looks as good (or better, as was the case with the NDtrading dial) when I receive it as it does in the pictures, it may be hard not to go all the way with this one. But on the other hand, the new dial is not perfect & the DRSD is not a grail watch for me (even though I have come to appreciate it much more as its appearance has improved with each successive mod). But my decision-making is definitely being affected by all of the comments from you guys. So please keep them coming.

The printing quality of the NDtrading dial is far better than the MBW, but the MBW ultimately won the battle because even though its printing was of poorer quality (to view the word 'ROLEX' an MBW dial through a loupe will make you sick) its overall appearance was closer to a gen. Basically, it came down to which was less noticeable -- the NDtrading's too narrow index markers & crown, or the MBW's poorer overall printing. With some reservations, I decided to stick with the MBW and continue to search for a better dial alternative that I could live with. I believe this new dial is that better alternative. While Rolex obviously did not have access to laser-quality printing equipment in the 70s & early 80s, their dials were printed with good quality paint and, in most cases, paint that was applied fairly thickly, at least in contrast to the paint & painting techniques applied to MBWs & most other rep or repainted dials. This Daytona 116520 hand comparison will give you an idea of the type of quality differences I see between paints used on reps/repaints & gens. Ignore the fact that the gen hand (left) is the wider (newer) version & the rep hand (right) is the original narrower version Note the thickness, glossiness & quality of application of paint on the gen vs the thin, matte & poorly applied paint on the rep. Now these are both modern parts, but the differences in material & application quality you see here are similar to what I see (through a loupe) when comparing a vintage gen dial (in good condition) with most reps/repaints. The paint & application quality on the NDtrading dial was so much more like what you see on a gen that I had to could not help but to take that into account when I was comparing it to my MBW. But, like I said, in the end, even though the NDtrading dial was a much better quality, it just had too many obvious flaws in its execution, which left the MBW looking like the better option. But it was a tough call that I hope will be much easier if this new dial is of NDtrading quality. Does that make more sense?

Thanks, Doc. Care to provide any details about your 'improved' dial? Is it something new like the one under discussion here or a mod of an existing MBW or other known dial?

Mezz -- Aside from the notable errors it contains, the NDtrading dial is VERY well done. In fact, I was quite surprised when it arrived & I was able to view it through a loupe. The printing quality is quite passable for a gen. If only they had put as much effort into researching what was supposed to be printed on the dial as they did in how they applied that printing. It was so well done that I had quite a bit of a time deciding whether to replace my MBW for the NDtrading dial. But, in the end, I think either Avitt or Alligoat convinced me (correctly, with hindsight) that the MBWs sins were the lesser of the two when you consider the overall impression each dial leaves. And I will know better once the new dial arrives & I can view it through a loupe. If the printing quality is similar to the NDtrading dial (and it looks that way in the pictures), it will definitely be replacing the MBW. I am still not sure about whether to clip its feet though. Maybe I will place a few low bids for 1570s over the next week or 2 & see if I get lucky. If so, I will go that route. Otherwise, I think the new dial with the old 2846 will certainly provide a nice improvement.

Mezz -- I agree with you on all points. The thing that has kept me from doing much more on my Double-Red are the limitations & basic problems inherent with the MBW dial. The line about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear comes to mind here. No matter how much or how well you mod the MBW dial, the underlying problems remain (and work against you). Obviously, the seller of this dial did not make a one-off, so I am sure we will soon be seeing more of these dials either from the same seller or the usual other sources. I did check NDtrading's site to see if its one of theirs, but they are still showing the same dial I got previously which, although well done, has 4 fairly serious flaws (and some smaller ones) that prohibit it from serious consideration in my book (ranked in order of importance) 6 & 9 index markers too narrow crown too narrow slightly incorrect layout of lower 5 lines (it is not that far off, but I cannot match this exact layout to any gen) uneven spacing on words like 'CH RONOMETER' (oddly, I have seen this same spacing on a number of other redials, so they must be using the NDtrading redial as their reference, which explains alot about why there are so many bad redials hanging around) (This is the NDtrading dial, not the one under consideration & pictured at the top of the thread)

My thoughts exactly. I am banking on that being the case. But as it is, I think its positives outrank its negatives & by a comfortable margin.

Thanks DuDro. Your pics did not display for some reason, but I am very familiar with the pics on doubleredseadweller (I use those watches as references for my mods). But I also have gigabytes of Double-Red gens archived on my hard drive & there are about a dozen or more dial variations for these. Different crowns, different fonts, different colors, different font layouts, slightly different Mercedes symbols on the hour hand, etc. So there is a bit of latitude here that I think this dial could reasonably fit into. I have matched just about everything on this dial to gens with the exception of the slightly uneven spacing of a couple of the words (look at the spacing of 'LEX' in ROLEX or the word DATE). That is really the only thing on this dial I can see that would make me question its legitimacy if I saw it in the wild (and in an otherwise gen-looking case). But I would like to get more input before I chop anyone's feet or buy another (expensive) movement.

That is what I think too. They got the crown, date window & lower 5 lines of printing almost dead-on (except for the red color, which could have been a shade darker, but still closer than the MBW). The dial background texture & color also look correct for this vintage. And unlike the NDtrading dials, the index markers at 6 & 9 are the correct width. I would have preferred a more whitish lume color, but I could live with it as is. All in all, I think this is a huge step forward. Not perfect by any means, but the 1st redial or aftermarket dial I have seen that could almost fool me or pass as gen upon close examination if I saw it in a watch that otherwise looked gen. The question now is whether to chop the feet & fit it to my 2846, or go all-out & get a 1570 ($1,200 or so) and do it up right?

$199 from here.

Took the 6241 out this morning to browse an art gallery (This is not a picture of the art gallery) Wearing the 6263 Daytona beater for the rest of the day Hope everyone had a nice weekend.

Throughout the history of the Rolex Daytona, there have been 3 major versions the original 66xx series, which contained a modified manual-wind Valjoux 72 movements with running seconds at the 9 o'clock subdial position the 165xx series, which contained modified self-winding Zenith El Primero movements with running seconds also at the 9 o'clock subdial position (which was centered along the equater of the dial) the 1652xx series, which contains the in-house automatic 4130 movement with running seconds at the 6 o'clock position (which is raised about 1mm above the equater of the dial)