freddy333

I have never seen a gen dial like that & it looks to new (probably a repaint if it is/was gen). But anything is possible with Rolex, so I would do a thorough check of the seller. Buy the seller before you buy the watch.

No, not a big deal, but it does require time & patience (not to mention attention to detail if you want to be sure the dial appears straight in the case with the reposition feet), and if you are paying a watchmaker to do the work you have to take that into account.

hahaha Only money.......... Someone (I cannot remember who -- KKS maybe???????) managed to get a 1575 into an MBW DRSD case without any serious mods required other than to carve out the semi-circular area on the inside of the case (nearly opposite from the crown as on the gen cases) to fit the 1575's locking screw. I wish I could find that original thread, but I remember he said it went in without any serious problems & everything lined up just as it should. I would expect that anyway since the MBW case is known for its dimensional accuracy, which is why it accepts so many gen parts without modification. But I am still undecided as to whether or not to upgrade the movement. On the one hand, if the dial looks as good (or better, as was the case with the NDtrading dial) when I receive it as it does in the pictures, it may be hard not to go all the way with this one. But on the other hand, the new dial is not perfect & the DRSD is not a grail watch for me (even though I have come to appreciate it much more as its appearance has improved with each successive mod). But my decision-making is definitely being affected by all of the comments from you guys. So please keep them coming.

The printing quality of the NDtrading dial is far better than the MBW, but the MBW ultimately won the battle because even though its printing was of poorer quality (to view the word 'ROLEX' an MBW dial through a loupe will make you sick) its overall appearance was closer to a gen. Basically, it came down to which was less noticeable -- the NDtrading's too narrow index markers & crown, or the MBW's poorer overall printing. With some reservations, I decided to stick with the MBW and continue to search for a better dial alternative that I could live with. I believe this new dial is that better alternative. While Rolex obviously did not have access to laser-quality printing equipment in the 70s & early 80s, their dials were printed with good quality paint and, in most cases, paint that was applied fairly thickly, at least in contrast to the paint & painting techniques applied to MBWs & most other rep or repainted dials. This Daytona 116520 hand comparison will give you an idea of the type of quality differences I see between paints used on reps/repaints & gens. Ignore the fact that the gen hand (left) is the wider (newer) version & the rep hand (right) is the original narrower version Note the thickness, glossiness & quality of application of paint on the gen vs the thin, matte & poorly applied paint on the rep. Now these are both modern parts, but the differences in material & application quality you see here are similar to what I see (through a loupe) when comparing a vintage gen dial (in good condition) with most reps/repaints. The paint & application quality on the NDtrading dial was so much more like what you see on a gen that I had to could not help but to take that into account when I was comparing it to my MBW. But, like I said, in the end, even though the NDtrading dial was a much better quality, it just had too many obvious flaws in its execution, which left the MBW looking like the better option. But it was a tough call that I hope will be much easier if this new dial is of NDtrading quality. Does that make more sense?

Thanks, Doc. Care to provide any details about your 'improved' dial? Is it something new like the one under discussion here or a mod of an existing MBW or other known dial?

Mezz -- Aside from the notable errors it contains, the NDtrading dial is VERY well done. In fact, I was quite surprised when it arrived & I was able to view it through a loupe. The printing quality is quite passable for a gen. If only they had put as much effort into researching what was supposed to be printed on the dial as they did in how they applied that printing. It was so well done that I had quite a bit of a time deciding whether to replace my MBW for the NDtrading dial. But, in the end, I think either Avitt or Alligoat convinced me (correctly, with hindsight) that the MBWs sins were the lesser of the two when you consider the overall impression each dial leaves. And I will know better once the new dial arrives & I can view it through a loupe. If the printing quality is similar to the NDtrading dial (and it looks that way in the pictures), it will definitely be replacing the MBW. I am still not sure about whether to clip its feet though. Maybe I will place a few low bids for 1570s over the next week or 2 & see if I get lucky. If so, I will go that route. Otherwise, I think the new dial with the old 2846 will certainly provide a nice improvement.

Mezz -- I agree with you on all points. The thing that has kept me from doing much more on my Double-Red are the limitations & basic problems inherent with the MBW dial. The line about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear comes to mind here. No matter how much or how well you mod the MBW dial, the underlying problems remain (and work against you). Obviously, the seller of this dial did not make a one-off, so I am sure we will soon be seeing more of these dials either from the same seller or the usual other sources. I did check NDtrading's site to see if its one of theirs, but they are still showing the same dial I got previously which, although well done, has 4 fairly serious flaws (and some smaller ones) that prohibit it from serious consideration in my book (ranked in order of importance) 6 & 9 index markers too narrow crown too narrow slightly incorrect layout of lower 5 lines (it is not that far off, but I cannot match this exact layout to any gen) uneven spacing on words like 'CH RONOMETER' (oddly, I have seen this same spacing on a number of other redials, so they must be using the NDtrading redial as their reference, which explains alot about why there are so many bad redials hanging around) (This is the NDtrading dial, not the one under consideration & pictured at the top of the thread)

My thoughts exactly. I am banking on that being the case. But as it is, I think its positives outrank its negatives & by a comfortable margin.

Thanks DuDro. Your pics did not display for some reason, but I am very familiar with the pics on doubleredseadweller (I use those watches as references for my mods). But I also have gigabytes of Double-Red gens archived on my hard drive & there are about a dozen or more dial variations for these. Different crowns, different fonts, different colors, different font layouts, slightly different Mercedes symbols on the hour hand, etc. So there is a bit of latitude here that I think this dial could reasonably fit into. I have matched just about everything on this dial to gens with the exception of the slightly uneven spacing of a couple of the words (look at the spacing of 'LEX' in ROLEX or the word DATE). That is really the only thing on this dial I can see that would make me question its legitimacy if I saw it in the wild (and in an otherwise gen-looking case). But I would like to get more input before I chop anyone's feet or buy another (expensive) movement.

That is what I think too. They got the crown, date window & lower 5 lines of printing almost dead-on (except for the red color, which could have been a shade darker, but still closer than the MBW). The dial background texture & color also look correct for this vintage. And unlike the NDtrading dials, the index markers at 6 & 9 are the correct width. I would have preferred a more whitish lume color, but I could live with it as is. All in all, I think this is a huge step forward. Not perfect by any means, but the 1st redial or aftermarket dial I have seen that could almost fool me or pass as gen upon close examination if I saw it in a watch that otherwise looked gen. The question now is whether to chop the feet & fit it to my 2846, or go all-out & get a 1570 ($1,200 or so) and do it up right?

$199 from here.

Took the 6241 out this morning to browse an art gallery (This is not a picture of the art gallery) Wearing the 6263 Daytona beater for the rest of the day Hope everyone had a nice weekend.

Throughout the history of the Rolex Daytona, there have been 3 major versions the original 66xx series, which contained a modified manual-wind Valjoux 72 movements with running seconds at the 9 o'clock subdial position the 165xx series, which contained modified self-winding Zenith El Primero movements with running seconds also at the 9 o'clock subdial position (which was centered along the equater of the dial) the 1652xx series, which contains the in-house automatic 4130 movement with running seconds at the 6 o'clock position (which is raised about 1mm above the equater of the dial)

Unpacking this to wear out to dinner But the trusty beater until then Rolex steel for me.

I do not know alot about these, but Rolex service will replace whatever is currently on a gen 1665 with a 703 Triplock. I believe the main differences between the 700, 701, 702 & current model 703 are the dots (and their location) below the crown & circumference of the inner shaft which the stem screws into. The 703 has 3 dots located relatively close to the crown, while earlier versions had either no dots (just the crown) or the dots were further away from the crown (closer to the edge of the crown). I believe the current 703 also has a thicker shaft than earlier versions, which requires a larger opening in the tube as well as a different location for the splines that mate with the Rolex tube tool. I have a spec sheet that describes the differences, but I cannot locate it right now. But this may be helpful (steel/yellow gold, white gold & platinum)

I found this awhile back & then wanted to forward it to a friend but was unable to locate it. So thanks.

Yes, good luck, but watch their dials--some of them look horrible (incorrect/misaligned fonts & crowns that look like they were chiseled by a blindman). For 6 grand, the watch should be franken-perfect.

Gen 16014 (early 80s) with standard 555 end links

I must have the version number wrong then. Maybe it is a 7760, I forget. But the point, and plan, was to install the manual-wind version of the 7750 so it would allow for use of one of the shallower V72 casebacks, not a 7750 with the rotor removed (which is what I have done on mine).

Ok.

Unless I am missing something, if you have access to blank ETA 2846 datewheels, why not just print directly onto that since the (slow beat) 2846 is the optimal movement for these vintage Subs and SDs? This way, as long as the printer gets the printing right on the DW, it will be a simple swap for any owner or watchmaker. Makes alot more sense than to print onto an extra substrate that the owner (or his watchmaker) then has to hope they get straight on the DW. On second thought, even if you cannot get blank ETA datewheels, you should be able to use the pre-printed DWs since the radial finishing procedure should remove the exiting layer of paint anyway. Then you just print the new numbers onto the face of the ETA DW & you are all set to install.

Now that makes it all worth while. Nice.