freddy333

If you do not see the release button, can you post a clear photo of the rear side of the movement near the stem? Maybe someone will be able to spot it for you.

That is too bad because your original work (aside from the scratches) looked pretty good. You probably could have touched-up the scratches with a black magic marker. It is such a small spot that if done carefully, I doubt you could even see the color difference with a low power loupe. But I guess that is water under the bridge since your watch is gorgeous now.

If you are talking about the pre-16520 Daytonas, I can tell you that the versions with the Asian 7750 movements have fully functional chronograph movements (tri-compax), but they are also self-winding (automatic), which is inaccurate for the vintage Daytonas as these were manual wind. You can always remove the winding rotor to make a sort of pseudo manual movement (at least you will not hear the rotor winding when you move the watch). But if you do that, you would almost have to also replace the rep crown and crown tube with gen parts, since the daily winding would quickly strip the threads and you would have to replace them anyway. The versions with the 'Lemania'/Venus movements are bi-compax. That is they have only 2 working chronograph subdials -- at 3 & 9 (they have a dummy subdial at 6 (the hand in this subdial just replicates the movement of the watch's hour hand, but this can be 'frozen' by removing a gear and (permanently) fixing the hand at 12 to simulate the correct 'off' position of the subdial on the gen Daytona), but these are manual (hand-wind) movements, which is correct for the early Daytona. Check the Collectors' section as some of the collectors here display both versions. Which is better for you? You tell me.

Very interesting progression, Avitt. I see why Sherrington removed the lume on the last dial. The color looks off (too yellowish). I am also giving second thought to the original WM/MBW datewheel as it has those quite genuine looking slightly serifed fonts.

I am not sure what defines a 'super rep', but there have always been varying levels of quality in the rep world. And I am going back more than 20 years. I remember when just a small handful of mail order rep dealers (this was long before the internet) began for the first time to offer the 'ultra exclusive' (ultra expensive for the time) new ETA based Rolex reps that had real gold plated bezels. But I have only ever bought watches that I think (at least, at the time) are visually accurate enough to pass as gens and which fit my style. Fortunately, while my watch knowledge and style have improved over the years (with maturity comes wisdom), so have the reps. But while I am amazed at how accurate some modern reps have become (while not perfect, some of the current 116520 Daytona reps look and function so similar to the genuine articles that owners of the gens must now ask themselves if their money was well spent), I am also constantly maddened at how often the rep makers fail to get some of the more obvious (and easy to achieve) details right (the cheesy 3, 6 & 9 hour markers on some of the current 116509 Daytona reps spoil an otherwise perfect reproduction dial).

I do not think there is any way to verify the state of the pinion without at least removing the hands and dial, which the dealer may balk at. And, even then, you may still need to at least partially disassemble the movement to locate the source of the problem. I would try pulling out the stem and moving the hands around the dial for several revolutions -- in both directions. Do this a couple of times. I had a movement once which had a gear that would intermittently (every few months) pop out of place and it resulted in symptoms similar to what you described. This got it working again. If it still appears to be 'stopped', I think you will have to return it to the dealer. Ziggy may have another suggestion, but that is what I would do.

In another post, Ubi posted a photo showing a gen Triplock crown next to a rep. The main problem, as and you can see from the comparison photos, is that the shaft that runs through the center of the rep crown (what the stem screws into) is narrower than the shaft in the gen crown. And the hole in the rep crown tube is made to fit the narrower shaft of the rep crown and the wider shaft in the gen will not go through the rep crown tube. So if you want to upgrade the crown to a gen, you will need to replace the crown tube also.

Ziggy's procedure is the most likely to work, but olivia's suggestion of trying to loosen it with penetrating oil is worth a try before you break out the drill. One other option, if there is enough of the head left you might try tapping on it from the side of the head with a small chisel. If you place the edge of the chisel at the right angle, it will bite into the edge of the screw head and you might be able to tap it in the direction to loosen and remove it.

I do not know what you mean by a jeweling tool, but you do not need a staking tool for basic repairs. Most watch parts supply houses (ofrei.com, julesborel.com) have watch repair kits. If you are going to take a watch repair class, the class can tell you what you need. If you plan to learn on your own, I cannot guide you there. You will have to buy what you need as you need it. All anyone here can tell you is to get quality tools and learn to use them correctly. Good luck and have fun.

The two thoughts that come to mind are carefully scraping print off with a pin (if you want to remove the print, but leave the background color) or just spray the entire dial face with paint remover (if you want to remove everything). If you plan to match the same colors, I would find the correct paint colors before you do anything.

I order pretty frequently from Ofrei and never had any real problems with Bob or anyone else in the company. But Bob Frei can be a bit unpredictable sometimes. I have had one very nice off-topic telephone conversation with Bob (he knew one of my relatives) and a couple of not so pleasant conversations (I do not think Bob is naturally a 'people person'). I have also received a couple of very strange emails from Bob where he ranted about his problems and things that had nothing to do with me. But as others have stated, as long as you know your part numbers and quantities and order by phone, you should be alright.

Exactly.

Avitt -- I will definitely keep you (and rwg) posted on my progress regarding the He valve. I have ordered some drill bits and will probably end up renting a drill press to get the rest of the work done. As repaustria already made clear with his version, it takes an already good rep up another notch. As far as the dials go, I had a feeling you would have the same issues I have regarding the narrow hour markers on the DRSD dial I have (and Polexpete posted a photo of). But I should say that, in person, the lume on that dial is quite well done. It is hard to see in the photo, but (on mine at least) it has just the right hint of original white color around each of the hour markers (the round ones too), which looks like alot of the vintage tritium you see on the gen watches. And I agree that there is probably a near-perfect replacement dial out there, but I also suspect that it will cost no more than the dials I have already found (under $400). There are so many variations of these DRSD rep/aftermarket/repainted dials (each gets one thing right and another wrong) that I think it is just a matter of finding the one with the least objectionable combination of sins. The search goes on.

Yes, that is the way the dial should look. I could be wrong, but one of the better Rolex books (I believe it was The Best of Time) said that some of the Comex Subs used the thicker Sea-Dweller cases in order to fit the He valve.

The photo I posted in the Stamping thread was to indicate the design and layout of a gen Comex non date Sub 551x caseback, not the dial. The issue I have with the width of markers relates only to the DRSD dial Polexpete posted (which I have as well). I have seen dozens of DRSDs (including those on doubleredseadweller) and none have such narrow coronets or index markers at the 6 & 9. Does that make more sense?

I am not sure what number I will use, but if it contains a 3 I want it to have a flat top since I have seen this font used on another gen Comex caseback. It is also the font on the datewheel and I think it looks cooler than the round 3.

Yes, it is engraved. A definite shortcoming and something that I will need to address. But after I have stamped the number, the plan is to either soften the sharp engraved corners with an engraving bit (I think it was KingKiteSurf who did that with great success (it fooled me) on his DRSD caseback) or to sand the entire face to remove the sharp engraved edges and then polish it. The second option will probably result in a more authentic looking vintage watch that could have seen daily duty with a Comex diver.

Here is the original caseback -- the infamous 'Comex 729', which is referenced in just about every tutorial on how to spot a fake Rolex Compared to that and the caseback that comes stock on most Comex reps, I think it is a great improvement and comes much closer to the version of the Comex gen in that Antiquorum sale. And after I add my own serial number, it will be unique and almost impossible for someone else to have the same one. But if you can direct me to a better caseback that is for sale (for a reasonable price), I would greatly appreciate it. And, like all of my modded watches, they can only be seen here (or on my wrist).

I want to stamp a number into this caseback So it looks like this caseback (from a Comex recently sold on Antiquorum (but with a different number)) So does anyone know where I can purchase a tool that will allow me to stamp (not engrave) Modern style numbers (with flat top 3s) that are 1/4" in height into the back of this case? For those who are not familiar with these tools, they are similar to the metal punch you use to set nails into wood, but they have a number carved into the tip instead of a flat point. You place the stamp against the object to be stamped and then hit it with a hammer to stamp the character into the object. Here is a sample of the font I need I have located a number of different metal stamping tools, but either they have the wrong font or they are not hard enough to stamp into stainless steel (the 'hammerless' stampers are too weak).

WightStuff -- Sorry, I meant to say the 5513 (dyslexia strikes again). The Comex rep I have is pretty accurate, with the exception of the current dial Although I am aware of the pluses and minuses of wearing a Rolex rep (I have been wearing both gen and reps for more than 20 years), your points are well taken.

Avitt -- Beautiful work and one of the best DRSDs I have seen. My WM DRSD is about where yours is and I think the original WM dial, although nice, is now one of the three remaining weak points (the other two being the case back's modern engraving instead of stamping and the He valve). If you have not yet read it, you might check out my post about sourcing Comex and DRSD dials. Polexpete was kind enough to post some photos of a nice DRSD repaint that I would like to get your opinion on. I already have one of these dials, but I am not sure if that one is better than the WM dial since both contain a different set of flaws. I am also working on an He valve mod for the WM/MBW watch cases, which is based on a previous mod I did for another Sub. I have taken apart one of my older Comex Sub reps, which has a clever and 'working' He valve. You could probably achieve something similar with a rivet or something like that, but since these cheap Subs come with all the parts you need, I decided to take the easier (albeit more expensive) route and just purchase another Sub for the He valve parts. Here is a photo of the parts (please excuse the poor lighting & color -- I forgot to set the white balance before I started) There is the 'valve' and a spring clip. There is an indentation around the lower end of the pin where it slides through the hole in the spring clip. Then you just slide the spring clip down to the other end until the pin is locked and held in place by the spring. There is even a small rubber gasket that fits below the head of the He valve to seal the case (I treat the gasket with silicone case seal). It is quite a clever little valve and I cannot understand why the WM/MBW cases do not include something similar in place of that silly He engraving they come with. Here is a photo of the He valve as it appears in the case What I am still working on is getting the hole drilled in the side of the WM case in place of the He engraving that is there now. Unfortunately, I do not have a drill press (that is the only way I can think of to get the hole drilled) or the proper sized cobalt drill bits (Update 5/15 -- drill bits ordered & should arrive in a few days). After the He valve is removed, the hole in the case of the cheap Sub looks like this As you can see, the hole is stepped. That is, there is a center (smaller) hole that runs all the way through the side of the case, which is approximately 1.10mm dia, and the outer (larger) hole (where the head of the He valve insets) is approximately 2.10mm dia. The diameter of the head of the He valve is 1.91mm. So once I can find the drill bits and a drill press to drill out the hole, all that remains is to chamfer a bit of the inside of the case to give the spring room to sit. That is where I am so far. Update 5/16 -- Received lots of drill bits & off to search for drill press options.

Pete -- Thank you for the information about the dial installation. But the 2846 does have a sweep second hand, so it should not look like a Timex (or quartz watch). Also, the 2846's slower beat is closer to the older Rolex movements than the faster 2836 is. The 2836 is a great movement, but I think the 2846 is more correct for a vintage Rolex. When I listen to the beat of a gen vintage Sub or Sea-Dweller and then listen to the beat of both ETAs, the 2846, although still slightly faster, is definitely closer. Once you hear the difference, and it is quite noticeable, it is hard to go back to the 2836.

I agree, and if I was able to source a gen 5514 Comex dial for $500, I would grab it. Trouble is, I have not seen any and I have a feeling if I found one it would cost alot more than $500. Still, I have to think that someone out there is making good rep or repainted Comex and DRSD dials. I mean if they can get a complicated dial like the modern Daytona right.......... Another alternative would be to buy a gen 5514 (non Comex) dial and find a way to place the Comex label on it myself. But I have not been able to figure out a way to do that (correctly). You are right about the <t25, but only a very few collectors would ever notice that and only at very close range. I am more concerned with having a watch that passes for gen in a restaurant or something like that. And since you can easily see the index markers from several feet away, I think it is more likely that someone will spot the narrow index markers before they notice the <t25.

Yes, that is the same dial I have. If only the coronet and index markers were the correct width, or at least a bit wider. It is those narrow index markers that have kept me from using the dial, because that is one of the first things you see when you look at the watch and I have never seen a Sea-Dweller dial with such narrow index markers. Just wondering, which movement do you have in your watch and did you have to remove the dial feet? My watch has a 2846 and I would need to remove the dial's feet to fit it. Not a big deal, but I was just wondering if that is what you did? I have been contemplating that Comex dial too, but, like the DRSD dial, it also has some odd fonts (the 'Comex' font should be more squarish), more odd text spacing, and the bottom of the 2 lines below 'Comex' should be shorter than the line above it. I will keep searching, but in the end I may have to bite the bullet and get one of these dials anyway because I have not seen many other Comex dials.............

Thank you for the great links. But unfortunately I already have one of those DRSD dials. They are very sweet, but contain two big flaws -- the coronet and 6 & 9 index markers are all too narrow, and some smaller ones -- the text is unevenly spaced and the dial is just slightly glossy instead of being a flat matte color. But the tritium-like lume work on these looks OEM and is about the best I have seen (similar to Ziggy's work). I have also checked the CWP site a few times, but have never seen either of these dials offered for sale. But I am sure that, like you said, they would be even more expensive if they had them. I will try again today. Any other suggestions?