RobbieG

Of course the real tragedy is anyone who uses these as BT and I and and many others do and imbed links for the photos in reviews/guides/articles, etc. for the good of the community would all become broken and it would be beyond time consuming to pull them all up, find and reload all the images in to the new service and re-insert all the new links into the docs. I use PB BTW and have received no coorespondence from them regarding bandwidth.

Speaking of Homer's tourby's: I have to say that those are really amazing pieces for the five hundred dollar price point they are hitting. Phoband had his at our last South Florida GTG and I will go out on a limb and say it is the finest fit and finished (not to mention the bonus of being a cool to look at tourby movement) watch for half a grand I have ever seen. He had a really nice thick spined sport/dress croc on it that just completed it perfectly. At that price, reliabilty wouldn't really concern me, plus parts supply should be plentiful or for that matter, one could just buy a spare movement - if it was important to have a touby in the collection that is. Personally, I'm not really into them myself although they are cool. I'm more into PC's, chronos, and repeaters as far as complicated watches go myself.

Amen to that...

I like the pumpkin, but I especially like this version. A very unique shade of red. Either are a nice departure and something a bit different in a chrono.

And if we want to work on another letter of the alphabet...

Yeah, that is what I figured. They changed to colorless AR sometime in the middle of last year as far as I can tell - at least on the MMD's. The older ones seem to all have the tinted coating and the newest ones don't.

What would have been really cool is if you and I actually traded the watches. Your rep Fish review made me buy the rep and then the gen. And then my Fish pics made you want to get the gen for the dreamy blue dial. Meanwhile, your original Noob factory GMT review made me buy the rep and then the gen and then even mod and keep the rep for a while. Then you got a gen GMT and wanted a gen Fish a bit as well (kind of - for the blue dial - but ended up getting the Aquaracer Chrono instead). So with that timeline it would have been really cool if I had sold you the gen Fish and even the gen GMT, as if you recall I was selling mine just about the time you were getting yours! I remember telling you for years that I thought you should have a gen GMT. You resisted saying the rep was good enough - and it kind of is - but I knew you would break down eventually. Its the movement really - and the 904 - although I know that doesn't mean as much to you as it does me. Funny how we all kind of work in sync around here. We see pics and reviews from other members and they conciously and unconciously spark even gen purchases because of things like really specific dial stuff, etc. I bought the gen Fish just because of the dial really as the rep is spot on besides that - even has the same movement. And I bought the gen GMT from your review of the rep as well mostly because of the crystal seating. I never knew what bothered me about the rep until you pointed out the tell tale white line on the China reps.

These look great Pho. And you know you have sparked a new addiction for my hyperactive a*s. You will have to get some better pics as people just don't realize how nice these things are in person. Nothing like a fine handmade pen. And you should do some high end fountain pens with solid 22k nibs and such. Alot of harcore collectors will only buy fountains. But I agree that for family and friends the Parker gel ball refills are best. Everyone loves a nice ball point. I love that stabilized laminate in the 4th pic. Like you said it looks better because it is understated. Every composite laminate I have seen looks really busy other than this one.

I don't blame you M. I haven't been cute for a long time.

It will be fine, but if I were you to avoid any duty issues you might want to have the seller make you a dummy repair receipt. Especially since the watch looks so new. Or you might ask him to enclose his receipt if he bought it new from an AD so you can prove it isn't a fake and/or you aren't the first owner subject to tax? Just work it out with him as he is a reputable and reasonable man.

I have to say that if anyone hasn't been to a GTG yet, do yourself a favor and go. Meeting your forum buds in person is just the best. We really are a tight knit crew around here and it shows. I left out last GTG offering to essentially give the shirt off my back to everyone there and got a really geuine sense that everyone else would do the same. For me collecting watches has a personal spot in my own heart from the mechanic fascination, but beyond that the real fun in the hobby is sharing your collection and passion with others. So noobs take heart. Get to a GTG as soon as you can, and if there isn't one, noone is stopping you from planning one yourself. Build it and they will come so they say...

You know that kid kinda looks like me M. LOL. I actually got tired half way through it myself. RWG, the outlet for all the unbridled energy of the most over synapsed human on the planet. I have been really into learning lately with a particular work project and what usually happens is when I'm learning in my own life (even if unrelated) I notice I tend to do learning type threads at the same time. Go figure. I just realized that just now actually. Maybe it helps me absorb stuff better when I spit out technical watch stuff or something. You guys think I need therapy?

Sorry if I didn't make this clear. There are two colors: grey and silver only- no white or rhodium. The grey is a darker pure rhodium plated finish. My watch is grey and so is yours. He is mistaken. His is not silver. The watch you posted here is grey for sure. The color UN calls silver looks nearly white in most pics but it is a very light silver color actually. This is what the lighter silver looks like. As you can see it looks really white. You can only see it is silver up close at at and angle really. I thought the dial was white for like 6 years even before the MMD when it was on the 40MM original MD:

Zenith is the principle manufacture and innovator for the 36K balance. A few things to consider on this though since you asked I haven't run my mouth in a while. I have the fingers itching for a long post for Lani. LOL. Anyway, we should all be aware though that faster isn't necessarily better. A faster beat rate, all other things being equal, allows for the most superior rate results without a great deal of adjustment. This comes at a price however which is greater friction and a shorter service interval. So while the rate results may be easier to achieve it becomes very critical that the movement be properly serviced to keep achieving these results and/or to continue to run at all. You may have noticed that many of the highest end manufactories tend to prefer slower beat rates. Their contention tend to be that it requires greater skill for the watchmaker to initially achieve those rate results. You will also notice that when classic pocket watch designs (18K beat) moved to wristwatches and got smaller balances it became even more tricky to get them perfect. The old school screw balances were necessary as the core rate result really had to come from the balance, well, balancing perfectly so to speak and/or using the torque in the proper way in the correct part of the power range exiting the mainspring barrel. Although balance contruction has gotten so good these days and all those little screws can be for decoration purposes only sometimes, the regulation challenges still exist for 18K rates. So why do the high end guys still use them then? Timelessness is what they would tell you. They tend to believe slower rates that are less torquey and hence less friction makes for a movement that is more robust, will last longer by not having parts wear out and maybe most importantly have a longer and less sensitive service interval. They also like the fact that it takes skill to make them have rates as good as the higher beat competition and they tend to be proud of that as well. They are kind of saying well yeah, anybody can get good rate results by turning a screw a notch on a regulator, but lets see what you do without a regulator and if you can get a watch running great by adjusting the balance alone as opposed to just effectively shortening or lengthening the hairspring. It is not uncommon to see extremely dirty and dry running 18k beat movements still ticking like a charm. On the other hand, a dry 36k movement or even one which is even slightly dirty can potentially have a lot of problems. This is an age old debate and one that I'll stay out of, despite having my own preference, but I do hear a sort of universal current running through the rep world sometimes which tends to praise 28.8k movements as being always superior to slower beat counterparts. They may be by default in that our best rep movements do happen to be 28.8k designs, but just know that isn't the reason per se that they are superior. If anything, given that rep movements can tend to be poorly lubricated and/or dirty out of the box, it would be better to have slower beat movements in them if we want them to last the longest unserviced. A Chinese 36k movement could prove to be disastourous for these reasons so it might not want to be encouraged. LOL. Meanwhile, the Seagull Venus 175 clone running at 21.6k has always been bulletproof in my reps both poorly lubricated and dirty. Similarly I have has good success with the 6497's & 8's as well despite having the same issues. Maybe slow beat and handwinding are a couple good things to look for in a rep movement especially? Again, I'm not trying to give any opinion, I just wonder given the problems we hear about most (other than modified trains) are related to auto winding and friction and centered around the 7750's. But of course we need to be able to duplicate the gen watches which in these cases tend to have 28.8k movements so the point is moot. It isn't like we have world class Vacheron or AP hanwind dress watch reps, ya know? It is generally accepted even by the purists that 21.6k is a nice happy medium between 18k and 28.8k rates. The old screw crowd kind of gets the best of both worlds this way. Even know the numbers seem closer there is a lot less torque and friction between 21.6 and 28.8. Very few still use 18k movements much and most of the purists are using 21.6k beats for their core calibers. Lange is one of the few that is holding onto 18k the most. Brands that prefer 21.6 (and 18) include IWC, Vacheron, Dubuis, Patek, AP, Journe, Lange and more of course. Meanwhile Rolex, Glashutte, Zenith, Heuer, JLC, and more of course are on the 28.8k side and higher in the case of Zenith and others with the 36k designs. Just a little food for thought on the beat rate world within our world.

The watch in question is the rhodium dial. UN calls that grey, but it is a rhodium plate on that one. The other color is silver which looks almost white in some light. As for pricing you need to realize that these hold value very well. 3700-4100 pr whatever is really splitting hairs. There aren't that many that come up for sale because there aren't that many that have been made. There have only been 7000 of them made since they were launched in 2004! Less than 1000 pieces a year so almost like a special edition in a sense. Look at it this way, even with the deepest discount you could find the watch is going to be $5500 at the lowest new. Anywhere around four grand give or take is a great price. I've said it a million times but these watches are like Vacheron's or Breguet's 10K+ sports lines in terms of fit and finish and overall quality. I'm not exagerating a bit. So if you are buying for value as I do you have to know that four grand for simply the finest dive style watch money can buy pretty much is a steal. The only reason a Breguet Marine or Vacheron Overseas are more is beause of the name and the unfounded perception that a JLC ebauche is somehow superior to the 2892. It simply isn't. Does VC or Breguet finish the movements better? Maybe a hair in the case of these watches but it is pretty marginal. Nardin collectors have often said that the day UN modifies their manufacture Caliber 160 and offers the 1846 line with those instead the watch price will jump to ten grand. It is only the perception of ETA being somehow inferior that keeps the price of these so low. The movements are immaculately finished with lots of hand touches. You have never seen ETA ebauche look like these. And the 2892 is an awesome movement. Get it man. You won't regret it.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/winding-cell-phone-jus-t93572.html

Oh no, not at all. The watch is 100% genuine and I will vouch for that 110%. The seller is known on TZ as well as very solid. I asked about the case number because Nardin has used two different coatings depending on the watch and timeframe. Both my MMD and my Dual Time date to around spring of last year. My MMD has the totally colorless AR and the Dual Time has the same coating as this watch. Nardin claims to have liked how the tinted version made black dials pop more at least for a while and they were supposedly using that coating on dark dials and the colorless on light dials. But then I have also seen DT's with colorless and now MMD's with tinted coatings now as well. So I'm trying to see if I can get a timeline together as to what coatings were used and when. I personally think they should just do the colorless all around only because it is a bit than the tinted coating. But as I said, the tinted coating looks really great on the jet black dials like on the DT. EDIT: You know now that I look at your proposed MMD I'm wondering if that tint is even the same as on my Dual Time. It seems lighter and more blue and mine seems darker and more purple, but there are just so many lighting variables so it is tough to say. You might also PM member jake48. Apparently he has a burgundy dialed MMD and you might ask him which coating he has and what his watch dates. I'd do it myself but he has me blocked because he hates me... You can just see the color on these pics of the DT: But note how the MMD coating is colorless:

Well boring, sporty, and cool are all subjective as you say. I would rate UN more innovative due to the sheer volume of interesting innovations and they certainly lead in industry awards and accolades for complications. AP isn't really trying to compete in that arena and hasn't for some time. They just want to make RO's clearly as it is nearly all of their focus. And why not? It is a great watch and a brand defining line for them. I'm not sure where they would be without it to be honest as they haven't kept up focus on traditional movement development and old school refinement anywhere near their truest competitors (which is not UN) of Patek and Vacheron. AP is far less adventurous in that respect. Like UN, they are still using ebauches for most of the key pieces, as are Patek and VC actually. That is kind of a dirty little secret in that they all love to have people think that their base movements are in house when they are not. Moreover, as soon as anyone hears ETA it is a licence to pick on someone which is laughable if you really know movements at all. That repuation only happened because ETA makes low end quartz movements and because 2824's and 7750 are used in many affordable watches. But the 2892 is in a whole different league and it is really the only serious ebauche ETA ever intended to be taken 100% seriously for high end work. But it is just as high end really. Take the JLC 889 which is the equivalent to the 2892. Truth be told, the 2892 is an equally robust and actually a far more useable and expandable ebauche. Is the highest level of pre-shipment decoration available higher with the 889 than the 2892 before it lands at the decoration bench? Well sure, but that is a moot point when the manufacture decorates them in house. If AP or UN or whoever applies a chamfer or perlage or whatever finish to a JLC bridge or an ETA bridge the result will be the same. That said, AP does have a slightly better finish spec across the board than UN, but then they should as their base level watches are twice the cost of UN's. Most any higher end UN is equal though in that respect. But we should probably clear something up after all these threads Berg, I really don't have any unfounded brand loyalty toward UN as you seem to for AP which stem from your love of the designs. I don't like most of UN's high complication designs at all. But I have to call the shot objectively when it comes to raw innovation. Although I have two UN's I wouldn't even say they are my favorite brand at all. I am VERY much what I would call a "category" type collector which keys more on what I need to fil certain shoes for real world "wear the watch" applications. So the reason I have a MMD to fill the shoes of the bling sports watch ala YM category is simple. At that price point I have shopped and found it to be the most robust, perfectly sized, and highly finished watch available hands down. Similarly, the Dual Time is the easiest to use and most creative patented GMT system available at any cost. In both cases, the bases are very highly finished 2892's which I am truly proud to own. I can honestly say I wouldn't want another movement in either of them. Parts are readily available in comparatively inexpensive as there are so many in production, the rotor and winding are dead quiet and perfect, and the finish is as nice as you will ever see at their price points. And in the case of the Dual Time, the watch would pretty much be impossible to be conceived using another movement. NOBODY - JLC, Piguet, Lemania, etc. make a compact and practical ebauche designed to accept seconds at 6, a 24 hour home time disc, and a two disc date display accepting the in house jumping hour module without major construction and modification. If anyone else made this watch (or even if UN did) with another movement it would not be financially feasable. They would have to charge twenty grand for it. So thank God for the 2892 ebauche. It really is perfect how they made that whole package work including even the perpetual module in additon to all this. Beyond all that, my collection hasn't even quite gotten yet to my truly favorite brands as I needed to build the core part of my collection with more typical less expensive sporty type watches first. My true passion lies in Vacheron, Lange, and Patek as I am very into traditional low beat rate movements and more of an old world charm and feel. My grails are the new Vacheron Patrimony Traditionelle Chronograph, a Lange 1, A Patek 5119 Hobnail, and if I ever get really rich a Langematik Perpetual or a Malte Perpetual. Although again, for the money, I have to say the Nardin GMT +/- Perpetual is amazing. Basically my Dual Time functionally with the addition of the calendar. A great, affordable every day perpetual if there is such a thing. I like the Sonata alot too as I think it is a good idea for a travel watch to have an alarm. That watch is again basically my Dual Time in function plus a repeater for the alarm function... .02

I'm surprised as I had that very watch for a couple years and it ran great - +1 per day in fact. Nicely decorated. Noiseless rotor. Similar solid crown feel with "no sound" winding just like the gen 2892.

Nice, although I'll be interested to see the case number. That is the first one I've seen with a tinted AR coating. Mine is totally colorless but on my Dual Time it is tinted (which I prefer on black dialed watches actually). Looks to be in perfect condition and I remember seeing these pics on the UN forum at TZ as well. And yes, the lume is amazing on these as is the choice for the rhodium dial. Yachtmaster on steriods, which is why I got mine. Another member has a burgundy dialed version (see Socal GTG thread) which is another fav of mine too. Those are the two best dials IMO - grey and burgundy. Best dive watch for the money hands down IMO in terms of overall quality.

See, he is my lost twin. I knew it. Only brothers could fight like that. Nice choices and good taste bro.

I have been getting spammed alot lately from "secret" sellers coming to RWG, opening a member account then sending me Skype messages to try and get me to buy stuff from them. I decided to pull the contact portal off the board. I figure if I want to coorespond with anyone I can give him details as sometimes it is bad timing to just have someone pop on as happens alot lately and it seems like I never have time to talk when that happens so it is probably just as well. Anyway, if the admin is interested, PM me and I will share details with you in case you want to track down the users and ban them...

Yeah Kruz - and many here are like you in that respect. The process is what you love the most. I used to love it alot more than I do now, but I find sending out for work like AR and lume, etc. to be no fun really. I have kind of evolved more into getting pleasure from researching and shopping for gens and enjoying those experiences - especially coupled with travel and sourcing a watch at an AD somewhere and flying to go check it out. I also like giving extra thought to categories and what I really need in the collection to be sure I have no waste or senseless duplication. With that I have enjoyed the process of selling watches as much as buying them from the personal triumph of knowing I am more efficient now and not wasteful. Down to five pieces from over thirty. And you are right in that the investment doesn't matter. Man, I couldn't say any watch I own is a good investment either, but I know what you mean in that the ones you somehow put the least into tend to end up the favorites. Weird. Anyway, interesting how we all have our processes and what we enjoy. I think I have steered away from frankens as the gens seemed so close I always figured why not just pop for the extra and get that. But now thinking of these dress watches and what I might be able to score that is truly out of reach in the gen world for me seems really interesting. I think a big issue for me is I was never into vinatage Rolex watches alot per se as a true historical or collectable motivation nor was I ever into vintage or modern Panerais. I tried to be cool for a while and be a PAM guy enough to find a spark but they never did it for me. But vintage Patek's or Vacherons? If the price is truly right after all which reamins to be seen I might finally have found a mod/franken world that will interest me again...

Well for $800 it is a winner for sure. What is the great divide with that source someone posted in your other thread where they were well over ten grand? I would gladly pay what you did and more for a watch like the Patek calendar. The think about column wheel chronos such as the V23 is despite the mods it really should run forever if it ever ran at all if you know what I mean. Bullet proof really. My next gen will either be a Malte Chrono or the new Patrimony Traditionelle chrono which replaces the Malte. I just love the 2310, or rather 2320 now with the swan neck. Perfect. Always have. I'm also a sucker for Lange's 951, but a $50k Datograph isn't in the budget at the moment. Not that it is superior to or much different than the 2310 variants really anyway. There are better Lange choices IMO. That said I would love to persue a dress watch project of some kind like what you are doing as well. Thanks for giving us all something new to think about project wise, but please, do give more info as to how to go about it or if you can recommend anyone who can source and/or build for the more lazy consumers like myself.

I just hope they keep moving - hopefully up in the interest of a good world to live in, but my trading doesn't care per se if motion is up or down. But needless to say we killed it today, mostly this morning through lunch.