panerai153

No doubt that these guys as you labeled the BTD's are in collusion. There is no way that, if these watches had been modded like some of the folks on the VRF are alluding to that it wouldn't have come out. But you have two things working here, the dealers who are "upscaling' their watches, and the guys who are buying. If a "collector" buys a pristine 6538 and pays a big premium for it, but months later gets a little suspicious and is pretty sure that his watch has been enhanced, he isn't going to say a word. First off, if he screams foul, most of the others on the forum aren't going to believe him, and second, as soon as the word gets out that his 45K watch isn't as it seems, the price is going to plummet. So for his own good, he's not going to say anything. Who knows how many other folks are insiders in a deal like this. Everyone on the VRF wants the most pristine, perfect examples for their collection.it is not in their best interest to make a big deal about this, because if the heat gets too bad, the dealers who are supplying these 40+ year old factory fresh watches will simply disappear, or sell regular run of the mill watches like everyone else. What really aggravates me is what these "modders" are doing is exactly what we do here on this forum, making a good watch better. the big difference we are all up front and open about what we do, those guys are all shadow players, and everything they are doing is for financial gain, at the expense of their fellow Rolex collectors. It's absolutely heresy to sell a watch with an aftermarket insert, bracelet, crown or a refinished dial, but it's perfectly all right to laser weld a case to build it back up to original specs, or "touch up" the lume on a dial, as long as you are the right person, and everyone thinks that you are the worlds greatest procurer of Vintage Rolex watches. You want papers with your watch, no problem, i can make a punched paper, sales receipt, find a period box, booklets, etc, get you the whole set for lets say a 4k premium over a comperable watch W/O papers. Pretty good business!!

Watches, Clothing & Accessories that's where you need to look. all of the trusted dealers are there.

Your gettihng warm!!

How about engraving proper numbers and lettering between the lugs on Rolex Reps? Think he could do that?

Seems like a few years back, we did have some top poster recognition. used to have a column on the right side with the top posters. nobody got anything, but you could tell at a glance who was actively posting. I know which one I would retire after a few months, worst typist on the forum!!

Well done sir!! We should nominate you for "noob of the month"

Got another "project' watch coming should arrive the same time as my Tudor 7924. In anticipation of the watch, I decided to bid on a strap/tang buckle on Ebay. I "sniped" the auction and won it, wasn't cheap, but it should be a nice addition to the watch. This particular watch is normally worn on a 18k gold bracelet, but even though I have had two genuines on bracelets, years ago, I'm not really into making that sort of statement today. having looked at these watches over on the VRF for the past few months, I have seen more and more of them on nice straps with Rolex buckles. Here are the strap/buckle photos. Name the watch!!

Freddy, you are absolutely right. I've had two high end cases for builds in the past 6 months, the ming quy case for my 6542 and a phong case for my tudor 7924. both are supposed to be genuine spec. First problem, both of them had the case tube hole drilled crooked. They aren't off much, but with a 1000.00 USD case, you would think they could at least drill a hole correctly! Second on my 6542 case, one of the springbar holes is higher than the other. my watchmaker who is finishing up my Tudor wasn't sure about the construction of the retainer ring/bezel and took the case to a friend who was a Rolex watchmaker at RSC Dallas for 18 years, and now has his own shop for at least 10 years. this guy has probably had thousands of Rolex watches in his hands over the past 28+ years. He looked at the construction and said it was not the same as the old Tudors he had worked on, so what you are saying is true. we are paying out the nose for all this expensive supposedly 1:1 spec. genuine spec stuff, and it's not.I have an MBW cased 1680 as well as a DRSD. My watchmaker has worked on both of them, and he told me tonight that both of them were less of a problem than the expensive cases!! AFA the Swissdialco dials, there was a writeup about a 5513 dial on The Rolex Forum from 2010 and they pretty much tore it to bits. I know that those guys don't ever have anything good to say about any aftermarket parts, but I would certainly want to see some really good high resolution photos of a dial before I paid big money for it. Also at one time Ivan was selling dials on Ebay, but don't see any listed now. Also, the Rolex forum thread was from three yars ago, so this guy could be a lot better at what he does now than then.

That's too bad about the dials. From what it looks like to me, all of these guys are prone to pull a fast one, and it seems to be occurring with increasing frequency. Males you wonder if they really still have the parts that they picture on their websites, or all these long gone and all they have are crap, but still at the "good" parts prices.

+1 for me too. Man for that price you could have a collector grade 6538, as well as a 6542, both of which will probably appreciate more than the octopus SD

WOW, At that price, you're right, it sure isn't a Dominos!!! Somebody likes them that's for sure.

i have to say, first off I'm not into contemporary Rolex watches very much. I have a Ceramic GMTIIC anda genuine 16610, but mine is a P serial from 2000. So getting that out the way, I really like the 16610, primarily because I have one. This one looks pretty nice, but i would hope that some of the folks who have one of these, will chime in. On a completely different note, if you are looking to buy a 16610, I would buy a TC. He has the best going right now. Another thought, while reading the info on the trusty 16610, I did not see that it was superlumed. Most reps if they aren't stated as superlumed, have really crappy lume. If you want a franken that's really a great watch, but needs a polish and a little watchmaker attention here is one for sale in the sales forum http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/155948-tcwm9-16610-franken/ Take a look at it, because it's what a real 16610 should look like.

I believe that the biggest problem that you are likely to encounter is related to shipping, customs, etc. First off is it possible for you guys to do a face to face meet. you hand him the cash, he hands you the watch. Otherwise, I believe that a written agreement would be fine. Another thing, I would find some shipping method that allows you to insure for full value. none of this, Lets value it at 20.00 USD and try to slip it through to avoid customs duties. Here in the USA, you cannot insure for more than you stated on the customs declaration. If it's a 6K watch, bite the bullet and insure it for the full amount.You will probably have to pay some duty, but that's better than having the watch go missing and have no insurance.What ccountries are you shipping from/to? Are either of these countries with histories of customs seizing watches. Although If you send one through with a high valuation , more than likely the customs folks will not believe that it's a franken, You guys need to work all these questions out before you finalize the deal.

I'll post more pics when I get more from him, or get the watch back. thanks for the comments. I like the genuine tritium also. We had a problem, at least i did. I forgot the pearl when i sent all the other stuff to him, so I stuck one in a small plastic bag, stuffed it in a regular envelope and mailed it. Envelope got to him, no pearl, no small bag, but a big rip in the envelope. Best we figured, the envelope got ripped open when it went through the automatic sorting machine, at some point the plastic bag dropped out and there went 100.00 USD !!! You can believe that when I sent him the second one, I sent it inside a padded envelope inside another padded envelope.three days later, it was on his bench.

Very, very nice!!

Several months back, I bought a pretty nice Tudor 7924 case from another forum member. He wasn't absolutely sure, but he was pretty sure it was a phong case. I started getting a few parts together, and finally a couple of weeks ago, I sent them over to my friend in Texas for a merging of parts aka "build" He isn't quite through with hte watch, but he has sent me a few photos and I'll give you a little taste of what's to come. First off here is a photo of the parts assembled. I sent him a couple of inserts and a bag of crystals, didn't have a clue as to what would fit. Inserts Here is the parts list Dial- Don't have a clue, it came with the watch Case- Probably a phong Movement- Swiss ETA 2783 removed from the donor watch in the photo Insert- One of the MBW 1680 inserts I had around, dropped it in bleach for 5 minutes and that's what it looks like Pearl-genuine tritium hands- Classic Watch Parts gilt aged by Matt crown- Brevet crown from NDT He is aging the hands and when that's done, it's just a matter of putting them on, and caseing the movement and sealing the watch up. I believe that it's going to be OK. When I get it home, I'll take more photos and bring the thread up to date. I'm looking forward to the watch.

Probably had those been issued earlier with the 1665 as a base watch, they would be in great demand, but unfortunately, the 16600 is neither rare nor is it vintage. There are probably thousands of 16600's around, and they aren't old enough or scarce enough to attract collectors, even those who are collecting more contemporary watches. AFA I'm concerned, these fall into the same catagory as any of the "commemorative" watches Rolex has produced. The Dominos pizza datejusts, the Cotton Bowl champion watches, etc., Maybe in 20-30 years these will be collectibles, but not now.

I agree, without hi res photos from every angle, including the movement, I wouldn't make a guess. Also when you say no guarantee, then I am guessing that there is no return if the watch turns out to be a fake, put together parts watch, etc? If that is the case, unless he's buying it for the same price you could buy a super franken of this watch, I would not buy. Any seller who sells a watch like this with a no return, "you buy it, it's yours", would be suspect in my eyes.

I thought I had seen this one before!! i agree with ubi and gavidoc, if these were real, their wi=oukd be a small group of collectors that were all over these "prototypes" Just like the guys who are 5517 fanatics. Small but very knowledgable group of collectors. Never hear or see this one mentioned over on the VRF, which I can guarantee has a already looked at this one sniffed it out and are now holding their noses, hoping it's gone forever. Seems to me that this particular watch does have a lot of "holes". the biggest thing to me is why would Rolex have US Marines on the caseback and dial? this was a prototype,right? They didn't have a contract, they were just submitting a watch(s) to the US Government for testing. Another thing, if gavidocs records search is correct, why did this watch not appear in one of the specification sheets that were used for all other watch evaluations for the military? Just too many "Maybe's" for me. Anotherstrange thing, the particular watch referenced in this thread sold at the Antiquorium Auction in Geneva in I believe, March 2004, and then resold at the NY auction in December of the same year! Did the buyer try to flip it for a profit, did he just fall out of love with the watch, or possibly did a little birdy whisper in his ear," Hey sucker, you just paid 80K for a watch that is, according to the experts in the vintage Rolex community a fake!!! As I have said before, It's really to bad that Rolex doesn't have a small highly trained authentication department that has access to all of the records of Rolex watches shipped out. This would put paid to all of the rumors and speculation about some of the more controversial models. Did PanAm actually buy White dial 6542's for their executives, or is this just another "urban legend", did the US Marines prototype exist. They know that answers to all the questions, but... they aren't telling.

Is the German firm Jurgen's (Not the lotion!!) They make bracelets, straps, watches and do dial refinishing as well. like most of the folks who are legit dial refinishers they are very upfront that they will not make a dial that's not what it started out as, and they will not "Upscale' a dial, like convert a 1680 white sub dial to a red sub dial. I've looked and am having a hard time finding anything on their dial refinishing, possibly no longer doing dials. Old info was s.parts.de, only one reference comes up and it's a VRF post from a while back.They used to post over on the Military watch forum, but I haven't been over there in ages.

In my opinion I would always go for a Swiss ETA over any other movement. I know they are more expensive, but your rep friendly local watchmaker can repair it because parts THAT FIT!! are readily available. no matter which you get, it will need a movement service. If it's one you want to get wet it will need a pressure test as well. With reps like genuine watches, you pretty much get what you pay for. Better movements, better cases, better dials and hands are more expensive. The main thing lacking in reps , ZERO quality control. Get used to it, believe it and make plans to overcome it on your own, because no matter how much "Bull S**T" your trusted dealers tell you. an no matter how many QC photos they send you, they don't show you good detailed photos of the movement, nor do they tell you that the factory where the reps are assembled is not even close to the temperature, humidity and dust filtered environment that Swiss watches are built in. Your movement may be handled carefully by a sweet little watch assembler, who is proud of her work, and tries to do a good job, but it just as well could be built by the girl next to her that's thinking about her boyfriend, totally distracted when she drops your movement on the floor, picks it up, blows off the dust and cases it up. She didn't see that dust that was under the rotor, which will seep through the rest of your unoiled dry watch, and slowly grind the moving parts to bits!! Your watch may have a Coronet on the dial, and it may say Rolex, but believe me it's not!! Get it serviced properly and all the little "hiccups" fixed ,and it's still not a Rolex, but it sure will run like one.

by and large, the reps are equal or better, especially the better quality reps with good movements Swiss ETA or serviced asian movements. however, the QC with reps are non existant, so you may get several in a row that are really good, and then get one with a bad movement, gaskets missing, loose or missing screws, etc. Also I would never assume that your rep is water resistant like the comparable priced Seiko.

Before you jump in here and ask questions like that, why don'tyou go over to the Rolex section and read some of the reviews and comments on the various models from different dealers.

Possibly the idea of a group buy is feasible, but it would probably have to be within a limited range of cases. AFA the 20,000 member community, those numbers are "phantom' numbers. Every person who has ever registered and become a member here is still on the membership list. just go and look through a couple of pages of "Members" .99% are not active, some never were, some were for a while and dropped out, but very few stay and are active. Look at the Rolex community here, how many folks post on a regular basis 50, 100, not more. how many of those are active modders who are looking for projects using very high end/gen parts, maybe 50-75% of the total active Rolex forum members, so what you are looking at is a good nucleus for a group buy, but not nearly enough to sway the suppliers with any sort of petition wiyh veiled threats of a boycott. Those guys get what they do, because they have a product that folks are willing to pay their prices to purchase. The market sets the prices, if they weren't selling parts they would drop their prices, but as long as enough folks are willing to pay their price, they will stay where they are or increase.