By-Tor

Those cg's are the best I've seen. You did those yourself, wow!!! If only our modders could provide such quality...I'm impressed, I really am! But they are not indistinguishable. That case will be spotted as fake. Post pic of the watch to TZ to all angles and the experts will spot it, there's absolutely no doubt about it. Same goes with the basic red 1680 dial. I know there is variation, but the default red MBW 1680 dial simply isn't like it should be. All markings are wrong... all. It's close enough, the cg's are close enough (after excellent modding), everything is close enough after changing virtually everything. But if you think it could go through "expert eyes" and pass...which, I believe, is the purpose of all this hardcore modification, you're wrong. I'm not an expert but I could spot your dial, any day. You're probably correct that I over estimated the cost of a project like this (those were just wild estimations, just like I said). But how much is the genuine dial worth... that needs to be changed to achieve "perfection"? Those cg's that you did are the best that's humanly possible to do. The problem is the original shape of the cg's. They're curved from the halfway on reps (and way too thick from the bottom)...and genuines are much straighter and "spikier". The real cg's look like chops. You can just "see" the difference. I agree there are some minor differencies after years of polishing and buffing, but you still can't change an apple to an orange. Don't take this wrong way (or personally), I just post what I see and want to be objective. Your MBW is one of the best I've ever seen... and the cg's are superb, I admire your skills. But don't kid yourself, it's not indistinguishable among the real Rolex collectors. Even if you change everything and get away with the wrong cg shape you just can't get away with the dial. You say there's variation. I _know_ there's variation. Prove me wrong, show me a genuine red 1680 dial that looks like the MBW 1680 dial and I'll show you Elton John wearing spandex in a powerlifting contest.

@Sherrington: Good points (and ideas). But it's not just the SUBMARINER font that's wrong. The whole dial of the MBW red 1680 is basically a modern Sub dial where the SUBMARINER text has just been painted red, basically. ROLEX text is wrong, the coronet is wrong, and the markings below SUBMARINER are wrong as well (for the red 1680). About the datewheel...you're correct. But like I said, you have to change virtually everything from the watch to make it close...which was the case in point here. We were talking about "out of box" models. And I would like to see those perfect cg's you did. Never seen "perfect" cg's... or indistinguishable cg's on ANY rep Submariner. Never. The ones Palpatine did for me were the best I've seen...and they werent' exactly like the genuines, either. Post a pic of yours, I'm really curious to see those.

Are you sure it came with 2893-2? If it did, good. But the watch itself is exactly the same as mine (which has 2836-2 inside). http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=432

This has been getting the most wrist time from all my watches lately.

Nice indeed. More I look at the AT pictures more I want one. Great rep.

Glad you liked 'em. This is what I did, no rocket science here. Load Photoshop and the picture 1 .Click "Image -> Adjust -> Auto Levels" 2. Click "Image -> Image Size -> (insert preferable value here) 3. Click "Filter -> Sharpen -> Unsharp mask (value 0.2) -> OK (I use this, it's not necessary but it gives me good results) 3. Overwrite Easy as that. The white balance in your camera is off... when you shoot in the bathroom or any other place with fluorescent light just choose that option from your camera. "Auto Levels" in Photoshop fixes the white balance quite well though (in most cases). Good luck practicing.

Great watch indeed. But the presentation of your pics sucked. And the white balance and contrast levels were off...and they need to be resized to max 800x something to get them properly viewable. I wanted to see this beauty properly (I'm sure others too) so I fixed the shots (somewhat). Took me 2 minutes. Hope you don't mind.

Thanks Tom. Don't take my suggestions as gospel, they're merely suggestions. Perhaps the "Knowledge base" is necessary for the noobs. Dunno how much they use it though. And maybe (like I said) some of the less used Photogallery subforums could be merged to "other" and we could just change them to brand-specific subforums and enlarge the print? I think it's silly that people don't post review of their new, say, Breitling to the Breitling forum...but to the "General Discussion" or "Dealer Review". It would be so easy, logical and comfortable to scroll all the Breitling-related threads in the Breitling subforum don't you think?

Excellent trio. And I agree about the TW Best SD. There's STILL no better rep of the Dweller. It's very, very nice...and the first ETA-based Rolly rep that had out-of-box reasonable crown guards. I swore no more Rollies for a while... but could actually purchase one. That case thickness thing has never bothered me that much... hmm...

Come on Randy, you're WAY too modest. Your "reps" are out of this world and you know it. 95% of the members couldn't duplicate the things you have done...even if they tried. I'm not a "handy" person at all. I can imagine myself filing the crown guards but messing up with hands, dials and all those small parts...no way!!! And I agree 100%. Owning an accurate rep of some watch is much more fun that buying the genuine...even if you got it for a good price. It makes much more interesting conversation...and this forum (for example) is much more interesting that ANY gen watch forum. We generally don't have the elitist attitude, not tunnel vision (most members own both reps and gens) and we have access to "feel" all kinds of luxury watches for ridiculous prices. And the funniest thing is that probably the best watch knowledge of all forums is here. And your Tudor and Daytona projects have been the most fascinating read in the past year. I could easily buy a gen Tudor for $1K, it's not financial thing... but it would be boring. I know exactly what you mean... I get much better kicks for buying 96% accurate rep of some watch for 1/15 of the price. Yeah...offtopic but I just HAD to add this.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/uploads/remoteim...92825-27901.jpg

Actually I was wrong...did a bit of searching in the old RWG. All 12-9-6 based 7750 Navis apparently come with the "Fighter's Theme". You can buy another (maybe nonworking) 3-6-9 based standard rep, swap the casebacks and buy a gen dial. Perhaps an option to consider?

First...no problems. We're just having a bit of fun at your expense. Nothing serious. That black GMT is a "fantasy model" (no genuine exists). Get the blue one, it's one of the best deals of ANY rep watches right now. I don't think there's any difference between the watches (except the movement)...and the new ETA's come with transparent glass caseback. But before you purchase read this: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=426

The plot thickens...

Thanks for the links. Saved me a lot of time. I'll check the site, find the Seamaster models that you're MOST LIKELY talking about (guess the color and bracelet) then will get back to you in a few days. Deal?

Agreed. Try to source the 12-9-6 version without the "Fighter" theme. I know they're available. I love my Navi, but it's not extremely accurate. It'd need a brushed case and new dial and datewheel (those subdials should be white). Another option is just to buy the dial and brush the case yourself. Those "flaws" don't bother me at all... personally, but if you're looking for extreme accuracy it's the best option: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=3392

You know...there are probably 200 different kind of Seamaster reps around. Show us the watches you're talking about and we can probably help.

Absolutely. But you have the skill, talent, equipment and the sources for parts. Most members don't... so you have to add considerable amount of money to pay for the workload to a watch modder. I'm thinking this from a standard replica buyer's view...what I basically am myself. Like I said in another thread I have changed my views on watch mods. Mostly because I don't have the skills to do those myself. Remember when some people were investing total of $800 to mod a CN Sub last year...full BigRedJoe s"ervice pack"? Now you can get better and more accurate ETA Sub for $150. Where's the fun in that?

I believe the vintage (white and red) SeaDweller are better "project watches" to begin with. 1680 is too flawed in many ways. The dial bothered me the most. Nothing is quite correct on the MBW 1680 dial...for that particular red model...starting from the oversized red SUBMARINER writing...and wrong ROLEX and coronet.

To answer the original question...which was a good question: Are they best replicas "out of box"? I really don't think so. But the MBW vintage Rolexes are easily the best vintage Rolexes "out of box". Correct case (almost correct...because the cg's look WRONG) and ability to take genuine parts make them good, expensive blanks for expensive projects. They also have wrong bracelets (solid middle links), wrong clasps, wrong inserts, wrong pearls and wrong crowns and datewheels. The dials are less than perfect too. It's very easy for experts to spot the MBW 1680 dial as a fake. Believe me, I did lots of research when I wrote my 1680 review...compared the pictures, cases, bracelets, etc. And I believe the 1680 cg's cannot be modified 100% like the genuine...they can be modified EXTREMELY CLOSE...but not 100% because of the wrong cg shape to begin with. I'm quite sure the DRSD and the vintage white SD have different guards and therefore those are possible to shape correctly. All in all: You have to replace almost everything to get it the 1680 to 98%...find a genuine dial, etc...and that's expensive. But the end result is probably somewhere around $1400-$1900 (just a wild guess here). Yes, that's still cheap compared to genuine...but it's still a fake. But on the other hand...they have a "feel" of the genuine watch which is kinda important, and from vintages it's always hard to tell. Best "feel" of any Rolex I've had. But honestly...while they're the best vintage Rolexes I still think there are some new reps are much more accurate "out of box": 4th Gen PO (which accepts gen parts too), some Breitlings, Seamaster Pro, Constellation Double Eagle, Explorer I, TAG Link Chronograph, VC Overseas, even some other modern Rolexes. This makes a good debate...and for some reason they have gotten a "holy" status among the community members. If you look at them honestly what they are... I believe they're a bit overhyped. That's one of the reasons I sold my watch. PS: Don't get me wrong: I still think they're amazing reps. And I hope didn't open a can of worms here. Just my honest views on the matter.

Rocky 4 was the funniest of them all. Camp humor at its finest: Rocky vs. Ivan Drago & the evil commies... and the Politbyroo was watching (even Gorbatshov)... and KGB was following his training....every step he took...driving a Volga or Moskvitch... ROTFLMAO!!! Only the stupidest trailer trash idiot could come up with something as naive, uber-nationalistic, stereotypic and utterly embarrassing as the script in Rocky IV....ahh the memoirs of the Cold War.

I don't buy many watches, just the ones I absolutely "need". 1. Omega Seamaster If I had to choose just one rep to wear (that would be SAD) for the rest of my life I'd probably take this one. Not flashy, not blingy, not very much "in your face" watch, but has extremely good quality, is accurate and is built solidly enough for a rep to take some occasional abuse. This one never bores me. It's always refreshing to put it back on after a while after "this month's hottest watch". Goes well with a suit (didn't Bond use it with suit too?) and is dressy and sporty at the same time. 2. Omega Speedmaster This is another "stealth watch". Watches with white dials are very understated on the wrist. This doesn't get noticed like the PO or Breitling but is very classy and has high quality feel all over it. And besides, it's nice to have one hand wind watch in your collection. 3. Rolex GMT Master II I have a sentimental bond with the GMT. Always admired my father's genuine red/black Master so I need one for myself. The only Rolex I could consider buying a genuine of. The rep is very good... it offers nice variation (when you exchange the bezel to Pepsi and back every now and then). Planet Ocean 4th Gen would be the next on the list. It looks fantastic, but is a bit garish to wear with a suit. Black version is probably better all-around watch. Still love my orange, it's very sporty and it goes really well with the sporty clothes I often wear. These are hard decisions. I love and wear all the reps I currently own. I know Omegas and Rollies are kinda unimaginative choices, but what can you do... I like them. Good topic.

None exists in EU. If Precious Time can't get it you only have to hope a EU-based member sells you one...or play customs roulette with Andrew or Paul. Sorry.

Based on what I see in George's photogallery: The Double Red, vintage white SD, 1680 and Milgauss all look MBWs. The modern Sub and SD are the "TW classic" models. EL and River have always offered these same models. I see them outdated in many ways, but the SD might still be the best one available (although still inaccurate). Just my 2 cents.

What do I think? I think it looks fantastic! It looks like it uses the same case/bracelet combination as the Aquagraph and Aquaracer 2000 Chrono. Mmm, I love it...