Watchmeister

And the funniest about "Swiss made" movements are that they are most likely not made by Swiss people but rather by guest workers. Would you care to guess where from? No native Swiss works in anything other than banking.

Watch looks great. Is that the Palp 2.1 or the PAM 1.9. I have the 2.1 on my GMT and it looks far thicker on mine - too thick in fact. That one looks great.

That is a good guess.

Ziggy- I think I can get you one of those FM 2892's in short order. It also sounds like we are talking about two entirely different situations. The "2892's" in the Seamaster are Asian junk and look nothing like the ETA. The FM may well be a hybrid but then again that is a risk on any ETA movement not bought directly from ETA.

V- I think you own an H. Is the bezel height (as I believe the caseback is) higher versus the G series and older manuals?

That 89 looks great. I am impressed with the dial. Do you think the light AR means no AR? Now that I see yours in the flesh the only thing that is holding me back is the fact that the 89 gen has a titanium case. I have always wondered about the height on the 177h. I have never owned a gen H but I was aware that the automatic movement (2892) earlier PAM's had a higher bezel and crystal due to cyclops and hand stack.

I think we are there for them.

Rolli- Fabulous watch. I love the dial. The comments on the movement are exactly right. My first one was a dog and the replacement has been a workhorse. It has been sitting on a winder for months keeping excellent time. Some day I will dump the case and replace with an Asian 86 case to get rid of that darned datechanger. It is on a watch winder anyhow. Then if you can change the date font it is one heck of a rep.

I think it depends on the WIS. There is a whole school of folks who focus only on movements and as such 99% of what we buy rep or gen would not qualify. Rolex has largely not done anything original since 1999 (in-house Daytona movement), PAM just came up with their first dedicated movement (8 days) which looks to me to be a mod of the Jaeger LeCoultre movement). You get my drift.

Well, I do hope other dealers weigh in on this as well. But it doesn't alter my opinion of who is reliable and who is not. In many cultures personal trustworthiness are separated from cultural or societal. Somebody made an interesting point that we must be important to dealers as they pay to be here. You may be right although I suspect it depends on the dealer. But if they are paying to sell watches on these forums they are also helping to pay for our forum. Notice the administration has made the correct statement that this will have to be a grass roots system and they are not going to get involved in policing every description - only rogue dealers. After all the dealers are paying clients of this forum as well (although I have no idea as to what percentage of revenues their fees are). It would be interesting to know whether it is the dealers who really keep this forum going financially.

Thanks for the pic above. I hadn't noticed that the H series 25 had switched over to lume. I wonder if that spells the beginning of the end of tritium in PAM's or whether they deviated for this particular model.

Angus- I suspect that when the buckle finally comes out in the engraved version you will have quite a few takers. It is a must have for any 187 or 194 owner.

I like the idea of a sticky section as to what various terms mean. Who wants to write it and update it? I do look forward to the definitions Synthetic sapphire, light ar = cheap-ass mineral glass. Hey the "ultimate fiddy" just came out (not to pick on any dealer and this one has pretty accurate descriptions) and guess what - accurate description but wrong aesthetic on the movement. Irrespective of descriptions, I suspect we should keep looking closely at those pictures. Someone earlier said stick with the pictures and do your homework and they are so right.

Actually, I am not aware of any "silver arrows" which came with L swiss L. Here are a couple of pics: To the best of my knowledge they only did one year of the silver arrows with a total of 500 units and they were all T swiss T. I am not sure whether it was 1998 or 1999. The PR with the Silver Leaf came with L Swiss L, no white outline and recessed PR subdial. Here is a pic of that one. It has L Swiss L and if you look carefully you can see the recess.

The gen does not have a double cyclops mechanism but does have a sapphire cyclops with better specifications. The early Automatic PAM's 1998-2000 (A and B series) had more primitive cyclops than todays and as such poorer magnification and visual anomalies (streaks, reflections, etc.). Many, including this model, did not have AR coating. It took the Vendome group a couple of years to add various improvements. The rep uses a double cyclops system with what I would guess is glass rather than sapphire to achieve magnification which is pretty close to the gen. It is interesting that the contemporary Asian Power Reserve on the 222 uses a double cyclops system as well. It's result is actually too big relative to the gen.

But isn't it time for a second one.

It does not. Rather it comes with the white outline. The interesting thing is that if you look in the Paneristi reference section it shows the dial two ways - recessed with no white outline around the reserve area and not recessed with whiteline. I have seen one in person and several offered for sale over the years and they all had the white outline and no recessing. The rep has white outline and not recessed. I really like the 2892-A2 Power Reserve reps because they come with the double cyclops mechanism. Add a finepics datewheel when they come out and you have a damn good rep. Here is a sideview of a gen. As you can see it has the white outline but is not recessed.

Actually, that is the one I am contemplating buying - but it is a little bit more than some of my other reps. And it does have a flaw - shouldn't be L Swiss L.

The gen weighs about the same and it has white gold markers.

Certainly is a rep. You would think the scammer would at least go to the trouble to procure a gen dial as they are readily available and only add $50 to the cost.

Congrats. No question. As long as you are having fun.

Their is nothing better than a watch rich with family history. Thanks for sharing.

Yes. light AR coat and synthetic sapphire (as opposed to genuine) are the most abused terms.

Well so do mine. Chief - you are showing a picture of the rep.