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Does anybody know whose case is best out of Yukiwatch, JewelleryAndWatch and NDTrading?

Okay my head is now quite overloaded having read posts and looked at cases from NDTrading, JewelleryAndWatch, Yukiwatch etc. I want a PERFECT (almost) 5517 clone. I've settled on a NDT dial but ... Who makes the best case? Thanks in advance, Dom

Thanks TeeJay I found this one as well (from ndtrading) but it's a lot more expensive; http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=299 The printing seems nice and clear, any experts that could share their knowledge..?

Hello This is my first purchase from Nathalie, but the contact form seems to not working, as I receive no answer ! Please let me know if you have her email ! Thanks, R.

Hi, I know here are a lot of finished vintage Sub-projects, so there should be a lot of experience out there... I have all gen parts incl. the movement, bracelet, plexy, inlay etc. to complete the wach - except of the case! So can someone anwer me on two questions: 1. Where is the difference between Phong, Yuki and NDTrading? 2. Why Yuki says the date disc make trouble on 1600 movements? Domi told me there is no difference between 1570 from 1500 Datejust and 1570 on 1600 Datejust models!? To be honest, on Phongs site the quality of the case on the pic is terrible! The most good looking and clear finished shape is on Yukis case, sorry. Don't know how the engravings are... Also, if someone has a case set laying around so please let me know. I am very interested in buying it! It's urgent! Thank's in advance.

Take one of BK's TW Best subs, let someone drill lug holes, fit a rep 93150 with 501 end links and install this dial from NDTrading and you have exactly the 16800 (NOT 16610!!) that is shown in the video above. http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=356 Of course it will require a lot of work and you'd need someone to relume the hands to mach the dial but it will be a very nice 16800.

Natalie's passion is NDTrading Corp's ebay site. Natalie runs NDTrading. The 2846-2 are all swiss so far, but the gmt part is a chinese addition. My watchmaker got mine running again after a service, but his comment about the gmt hand was that it's decorative- not correctly geared. The movements coming out of the Josh 1655- the DG3804- as Rolexaddict calls them, might be another possibility. White dials are hard to find, I saw a couple on Ingod44's site last month, but they were bid up to $300 or so. Nothing currently on NDT, but it doesn't hurt to ask. But an NDT dial could easily run more than a whole PT 6542 w/ a white dial.

1. Read Donerix's modding of the PT case to reduce the 'wokkiness'. http://www.rwg.cc/to...l__6542__st__20 2. I think you can get a much more accurate insert for $100 less than NDTrading. http://www.rwg.cc/to...__fromsearch__1 3. The PT dial might be a good one with a better lume job. 4. Clark's 25-116 is very good. 5. Ken at Raffles Time has the replica 6mm Brevet '+' crown and tube. Just make certain to tell him you need the 3.0 threads to the case. http://www.rwg.cc/to...__fromsearch__1 I think JMB can help you with the overlay. Oh, and one more thing, in regards to the movement. Have it serviced. I have been told by a very reliable source that the ETA 2846-2 used in this watch is a genuine Swiss, but a used one refurbished with some Chinese parts. That makes it a really good deal, and easily serviceable.

Hey guys - thanks for all the kind words! @ephry - I did shave the cgs . there aren't really any good photos. I will have to take some more. Some more helpful hints for anyone looking to do a build like this - to remove the dial feet from the ndtrading dial I twisted them off. ---------------- After wearing the watch for a day - I feel like I want to make it look "older" yet. -I didnot modify this dial. Instead i left the pantina from mdtrading as is. The color of the hour markers is correct, but the texture is too glossy. Perhaps i need to cook it a bit in the toaster. - I am thinking that perhaps the rep crown is still too big. It really emphasizes the small cgs. Perhaps the 703 is the way to go - plexiglas , i didn't really modify this yet. I had wiped the inside of it with a paper towel which left it with swirl marks. Glad this is vintage or I would have been [censored] - next step is to rough up the plexiglas then hit it with the cape cod - the rep band sucks. Sharp edges everywhere. Even after sanding it down I still have sharp spots. I also have issues with it opening up. I rebent and adjusted everything. - but it still suck. It just feels cheap. Not sure what I will do Photos to come in a few days

here are some photos. You can see here that the ndtrading dial fits right into the cartel 5513 case. ...but the legs are in a different position instead of gluing the fing to the dial and the dial to the movement - i instead soldered feet onto the ring. I used probbal 18 or 20 awg copper wire probably from a cat5 cable. I then used a razor blad to trim and cu off excess solder

Hello Rwg! This is one of my first posts over here! I would love to build a 1960s era Tudor Submariner - 7928. It is a great watch. It has the same timeless style of a sub with out attracting the attention of the name "rolex". I believe ( edit: confirmed) the this would be the same case as a Rolex 5513 / 5512. How would you expert geeks advise me on what parts to source? Some Questions I will have to answer are: What is the best "base" watch to begin this build with? Answer: MBW see post below - expensive Answer : Jos rep $99 (now $119) http://www.1-pc8838.....00-p-9670.html "Perfect base for Tudor submariners, the gen and replica Tudor dial fit's the case perfect " (Edit: Everything below will be in reference to this case not the MBW) Can I find a rep of this dial? Answer: Yes ndtrading ($160) ndtradingcorp.com Answer: Gen - eBay? ($200+) What are the crystal recommendations? Answer: Tropic 19 aka t19 Clarks Crystal or Gen Tropic 39 fits fine too (Clarks T19 is nice, but a little wider on the OD than the Ofrei units) Source: http://www.rwg.cc/to...e/page__st__140 photo What is the Crown/Tube Recommendations Answer: gen 702 crown w/ 7030 stem is proper but crazy expensive Answer: gen 703 crown with 7030 stem is acceptable replacement but 100$ (703 crown is smaller then modern crown and will make the stubby crown guards look better, HOWEVER - this crown will not fit factory tube!) Answer: Modern Gen Crowns will fit the factory tube (i am pretty sure must confirm) What size are the lug holes? Answer: gens use 2mm Spring bars Modification: For the Josh 5513 Case use a 1.3mm Bit and drill out. http://www.rwg.cc/to...e/page__st__120 Thoughts on Movements Answer: Proper motor is a slow beat one. Standard 21j is 19k - this is wrong. Gen is 21k (like 2846 i think). 2836 is high beat 28k (i believe) Answer: ETA 2846-2 slowbeat motor Answer: "Easiest and cheapest way is to just replace it with a DG 2813 - which is the slow beat Asian movement. Its sturdy and easy to replace." "buy it off ofrei and the likes or ebay." Modify Crown Guards Answer: on MBW http://www.repgeek.c...highlight=tudor Answer: on Cartel Here are some pics of a 7928 Rep Photos: compliments of timebomb compliments of squierx1 Additional Resources: great info here: http://www.repgeek.c...highlight=tudor and here: http://www.repgeek.c...highlight=tudor Great resource for vintagizing rolex watches: http://www.repgeek.c...highlight=tudor resource here http://www.rwgforum....bmariner-70160/ Any comments - suggestions or words of caution?

Bonjour de France, Stephane To be clear, there is only 5 ways to have good cases here : cartel dealers (Josh, Andrew, etc.), DW, Yuki, NDT, or Phong. I think you should consider buying a Phong's case kit if you have money, and if you do not want to bother about movement fitting. NDTrading is also selling a case, but it's IMO a bad case, like I said in another thread. I don't think DW or Yuki selling 16520 cases. And cartel do not provide any El Primero-based cases... So... I think the Phong choice is your only easy way to have a correct case : http://www.jewelryandwatch.com/ Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong Movement who are not fitting is a common problem when you are making a Rolex rep with El Primero or Valjoux 72x. Especially with El Primero, if I trust what I seen before The case you have here on eBay is a 7750 case. I guess your current case is also a 7750 case. This will never fit an El Primero R.

Can you say Natalie from NDTrading Corp? A step above Yuki and like woof says, if you can bargain her down, all the better.

I asked the same question a about 5513 dials. I've been looking at ndtrading and np0234 (eBay) who us a bit cheaper than ndt. I've not seen anything of ndt's dials that suggest they are worth the extra £££'s over yuki etc. Vintage Rolex forum has a good sales Market forum for gen stuff. Perhaps a gen service dial is the way to go. Oh and just out if interest where did you get your MBW case, I'm still hunting!

Dig deep enough into the archives here, and you'll find that there's nothing new under the sun. As I mentioned in my V72 Daytona thread, I was surprised in 2009 to discover that there was a cheap, accurate 6263 rep available--DW's. I was even more surprised to find out that they'd been around since 2005! The guy who put together that super-duper-hyper-franken (klingsor) actually posted on RWI last year, after I'd mentioned him in someone's 6541 build thread. So he may still be monitoring his old accounts, in case someone has questions. As with an accurate 1019, a super-6541 is a very ambitious build. But if that's the watch you want, then go for it! That said, it would be worth looking closely at the 6541 replacement case offered by NDTrading and comparing it (as much as you can using the photos available) with Phong's. Phong's 1019, for example, is a poor replication, and I've no idea how his 6541 compares with the gen.

Do you have pics of the original case and the Yuki case side-by-side by any chance, Freddy? Here is what I'm thinking just from what I have gleamed from the boards so far. - ETA 2824/2 Movement $140.00 - ETA Adapter Ring from Yuki $78.00 - Yuki Case $800 OR NDTrading Case $1050 - NDTrading Gilt Dial $350 - Clark Gilt Hands for the ETA $15 - Repro Riveted Bracelet $150 This brings me at under $1,800 for the ETA movement or I could go with the gen 1030 and be in at about $3k. I am leaning towards the ETA movement because what I've seen online, most people seem to agree that its not worth it to put in a gen movement. I like to think that the gen movement would help me resell this if I ever decide to fork over the money, but is there any other benefit to it? The fact that parts are difficult to obtain for the 1030 is off putting as well. Am I forgetting something? Anyone else have suggestions on better components I should be shooting for?

www.ebay.com NDTrading Yukiwatch et. al.

If we could only get MBW parts.... Hopefully they start up production again soon! I just finished putting together a modified PT1680 case with NDtrading dial and gen bracelet etc... these new cheap 1680 and 1665 cases just arnt the same quality. The MBW cases are so nice to work with and modify. I was going to install a gen 1680 dial into this case but I'm going to save it for a MBW case when i find one. dizz

“The first Sea-Dweller was launched by the end of 1967, bearing the model number 1665. It had a depth rating of 2000 feet, which was clearly engraved in red color as “Sea-Dweller Submariner 2000” on the dial. This model featured the 1575 movement, the new Triplock crown, a thicker crystal, and a larger case. The new Triplock crown featured a triple gasket system which helps in tightly screwing down the case tube against the Oyster case. As a result, another layer of protection is created. This model did not carry the date magnification bubble, present on all Rolex watches. The special version of 1665 that was issued to the COMEX divers, however, continued to display the standard “COMEX” logo. Later, to strengthen the image of Sea-Dweller, the tag “Submariner 2000” was dropped leaving only “Sea-Dweller” on the dial in white color. This look started by the mid 1970s and continued until 1981.” The original mbk 1665 is a great looking watch, there is no question. Many will agree the quality and feel of the watch are beyond the josh/pt vintage line. As an owner of the PT 1680, I can easily agree. Despite being a great replication, some of us turn our sickness for perfection and make it an interactive enjoyable hobby. These are the following modifications I performed on my 1665. 1. Drill lugs holes and bracelet 2. File crown guards 3. Replace crown and tube 4. Replace bezel insert 5. Smoothen case 6. Replace crystal 7. Replace dial 8. Relume dial and hands out of the box mbk great white seadweller Most of us start out with some inspiration. I found a great example of a well taken care of 1665 with some service replacement parts on it. I find that this part is crucial to the project, it keeps you on track and gives you focus and direction. gen I immediately was hooked on the superdome, it just gave the watch such a vintage dive watch feel. gen A great example of an original rail gen dialed 1665 great white. A large majority of this hobby is hunting for the parts. Well, it started out looking like this. The MBK is a great base, but it does need some massaging to get it celebrity status. First is the lug holes. I used 3 precision bits by IRWIN, I found them at a local ACE hardware store. Working from smaller to larger to widen the hole. I started out with the #57 and finished up with the #55. You will also need to drill the bracelet to accept the 2mm gen spring bars. I used a 5/64th’s cobalt bit. You can do this without a drill press, but you will probably break bits. I used my buddies and made a jig that held the case firmly so it could move a smidgen if needed. This keeps you from being a little off in the setup and ending up with a crooked hole. Since the hole is already there, it acts as a pilot with the drill bit passing through the case. Some tips: Drill slowly and use some oil. I backed off regularly to let the bit cool I used leather to hold the bracelet in place while I drilled. Now that the lugs are drilled, we need some nice springbars to go with it. My research from other build led me to OFREI’s springbars. (google it  ) These have a nice bevel at the tips, awesome. The tube is weaksauce on the MBK. It’s too small to fit a gen crown and the construction design is wrong. You can purchase24- 703 Rolex aftermarket replacements which are plentiful. Needless to say, the MBK crown will have to go. You can find used Rolex 7mm triple lock crowns pretty easily. 703 on the right. (gasket is not installed btw. ) Now we need a better insert, or at least a better pearl. I realized that like the dial, the insert is a large part of the look of the watch. I finally found an NOS on ebay. Many like the faded look (you can use bleach for a few minutes on a new bezel) or will look for thick font bezels since they are what the original watches were equipped with. 5513 bezels will also fit. You cannot use modern sub 16610 inserts or newer sea dweller inserts as they are larger in diameter. Since I am going for a more restored/serviced look, I opted for the gen replacement part. I use a razor and pry a little from each corner of the watch to remove it. I recommend using some painters tape to protect the lugs from scratches. Here is the Rolex service replacement for the 1665/5513. The service replacement insert had a thinner more modern font, but still has the nice vintage pearl. I used a few drops of Guerilla glue and a clamp to hold it in place overnight. Gen on the right. The case will need some massaging. I use a dremel and a nail file for the bulk of smoothing of pretty much all the edges. I always finish off with a felt polisher on the dremel to give it a smooth soft feel. Sharp and 90 degree corners are your enemy! Removing the caseback paint took some patience, with nail polish remover and other demel goodies. I tried to smoothen the edges of the engravings with sand paper and other dremel goodies to remove the laser etched look from MBK. I was not afraid to be liberal with a polishing compound on the case back, since, it would have been rubbing on the back side of a wrist for decades. Next is a new crystal,well acrylic. I found, DO NOT go cheap on this! Cheap plastic is hard and brittle which can lead to fitment issues. Nice plastic is soft and flexible. I opted for a Clark 25-39 Tropic superdome because it just gives the watch so much personality and makes it so much more interesting. Superdome on the left. The mbk dial is pretty dang good, but, having a unique dial just sets off the whole watch in my opinion, since it is the focus of the watch, I was not opposed to investing some $$$ into this piece. There are many different replacement dials, yuki watch, NDTrading ,etc. It really comes down to preference since none are gen. Keeping the MBK and reluming would be a good option. The MBK dial and hand lume color does not match. The hands are a more bright white like on a modern Rolex with the dial being more yellow. The lume was also missing any kind of texture and it had an almost glossy finish to it. The relume of the dial and hands not only gives them a nice matching color, but it adds texture that was missing. There are plenty of modders on the forums that can perform this. I can speack of Zigmiester and Pbdad. I will note that The Zigmeister was half the price of Pbdad. The new Rail dial and hands relumed I was not looking for a really beaten trashed “vintage” look, this pic highlights the subtle aging details and the great dial. Final assembly gave this result.

to my knowledge, the one above in Ubi's pix, is an NDTrading dial...widths of the vertical and horizontal lines are the same - which is slightly off from the gen... the one from J&W/Phong isn't bad either - but doesn't appear to be as crisp...and is pricey...this one, tho, does have the different widths of the vertical line and horizontal lines of the "T"...but the "SUBMARINER" is too large and spaced out... here's the J&W/Phong:

If those are gen dials, I would not refinish them. Sell them on VRF or ebay, and buy a couple Yuki or NDtrading dials if you want something refinished. Even the ugliest damaged dials sell for upwards of $500 these days. If you refinish it, its worth $200 or less. I also question the authenticity of those dials especially the first one. dizz

I was lucky to find genuine 16520 case set for my franken but most people use aftermarkets, some good cases were available from George who is now gone. Maybe try Phong from jewelryandwatch.com ? EDIT: Ndtrading also has a 16520 case: http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=204

I have not asked for too much help over the years but I could sure use it now.. Planing to build a 16800 and currently only have the gen. 3035 movement from a 1984 Datejust that I have had for many many years. It does have the gold date wheel so I will need a new white date wheel as well. Im "assuming" the hardest part to this project is sourcing a good rep case with the appropriate lug holes to accommodate the 3035. I have seen several nice dials on e-bay from NDtrading and one other seller ranging in price from 220-400 I think I like this one My link If any memebers could chime in it would be greatly appreciated. Does the project seem doable?? Oh yea and some one in Atlanta to put it together for me

correct Chiman....I was thinking of 1960 Rolex....here's some info. I have read Rolex watches from 70's used 316L stainless... old Rolex from 60's or before used 304L stainless 316L (similar to 304L) but has 2-3% more molybdenum added, which provides more corrosion resistance than 304L then in mid 1980 switch to 904L, which contains more nickel and is 3x more expensive 904L would be better for people that have more acidic sweat, or maybe expose the Rolex to seawater where can cause more corrosion between bezel or caseback Yuki states that he uses "normal stainless"...but he would not confirm 304L or 316L I can tell you for certain...Phong bashed the hell out of Yuki cases...saying that his recent steel is inferior and the machining is poor quality compared to his. I have heard of great finish experiences with Phong 1655 cases..but you are talking about $1000 for the complete case set if you are able to get the guy down that low.....for a 1655 build this is worth it, but I'm not sure for a 1680 build....betweem GEN 1570 movement and Phong caseset....looking at $2K to $3K depending on other parts like dial and bracelet. I have not seen anyone here build using an NDTrading case set?

Ok.....so if you were to drop in a GEN 1570 movement.....which 1680 case set would be the most recommended? Any expert advice or insight on fit and finish would be great. PHONG???...most likely expensive...BUT...he claims to use true 316 Stainless.....which others (Yuki) does not.....now, I know those old style cases, Role GEN did not even use 316...but it is a better stainless YUKI watch???......he will seem to be the least expensive.....BUT....is his case better finished than others??? NDTrading.....I don't know much about their case sets....but I do see they are more expensive than Yuki....and slightly less so than Phong.