Search the Community

Hi guys, I'm planning a trip to Saigon, Ho Chi Minh City soon and would like to checkout some aftermarket Rolex vintage parts/watch shops to source a couple of parts and also to keep an open eye. There is not much information about these aftermarket Rolex watch shops, since they are enlisted as fakes. But I would still like to see them in person, and perhaps get a franken or two project to start with. I tried to google as much keywords, but mostly leading me to only MQ's, Phongs (US), NDtrading (US), and another site running by Phong's son. So far, i've only managed to attain Minh Quy's address through his websites, but I also heard about others like dung_chrono on eBay who has a physical shop according to the VRF that called him out, and another Tony Watches? I messaged dung_chrono but he sad due to eBay's sensitivity to trade outside the web's perimeter, he isn't willing to disclose his location. I would appreciate if anyone has any information as to where I can find dung_chrono's shop, Tony's and perhaps some other I should also look at. Thank you M

NDtrading on right Although the fonts on the NDtrading dial are generally more accurate than the MBW, the NDtrading suffers from a crown & 6 & 9 index markers that are too narrow and some of the lettering is irregularly spaced (example - look at the 1st 3 letters in chronometer). No aftermarket dial that I have found gets everything right, so you have to choose your set of poisons. For my money, comparing either the MBW or NDtrading dials to the aftermarket dial I posted in my 1st post, I think the 1st dial is the most accurate of the 3. Here are 2 gens for reference My current MBW DRSD

I'm just heading down this same road, and found this thread helpful. I don't have an issue using a gen 1570. For me, if I'm using a gen movement and can upgrade to gen hands and dial later. I was budgeting $3K for the build, and I think I can get where I want for that. I reached out to Yuki (no cases available) an NDTrading. Is there somewhere else I should be looking? Looks like I can get a lot of what I want from NDTrading. I was hoping to find a thread where someone compared the different aftermarket dials and hands. I can find plenty of people on eBay that seem to have hands, but knowing who's are better quality is the trick.

It would be nice/helpful if Yuki provided more pics (from different angles) of his cases (not to mention more cases), but I suspect his cases are the same that Phong & NDtrading sell. There is nothing about Phong's or NDtrading's cases that make them any better than a standard rep case, except that they will fit gen parts (& they are constructed out of the same quality metal & come with the same crummy inserts, crowns & crystals as any off-the-shelf rep). And there is absolutely no reason to be paying 4 times more to Phong or NDtrading for the same quality you get with a $200 rep watch. For reference, I paid about $200 each for MBW 5514 & 5513 cases (both of which accept gen parts & contain gen movements)

I built a 5508 about 8 years ago, NDTrading case and dial, various other parts and a 1520 movement out of an Air King. While the 1530 would have been the correct movement, the 1520 worked fine. Only gen parts were the crystal and the 6mm crown, everything else was rep. As I recall, I spent around $2500 building this rep. It's hard to source gen parts for a 5508- they're scarce and expensive. Now days I'm more inclined to go the less expensive route and avoid the Rolex movement and use a good swiss eta. Aging of the rep parts can make for a nice build and when you're in the $500 range, I find it just as satisfying. This cartel 5513 was a fun little project- shaved the crown guards and filed down the case between the guards and installed a 702 case tube and crown. Drilled out the lugholes and now it's a nice little beater for $300. Movement is the dg2813 and it's doing fine. Of course it helps when you can do most of the work yourself- all of which I learned hanging around here and on the other rep forums.

Some members might find this informative -- The DRSD dial at left was purchased on ebay a couple of months ago. The seller told me he purchased the dial from another seller who did not know the original source, but said it was not NDTrading. I have purchased dials from NDTrading & know their products fairly well & I have never seen this version of the dial available from them or any of the other usual dial sellers. Ziggyfied Preciouswatches at left, unmodified NDTrading at right Version 1 Gen

Diesel -- Let me clarify. This is the original dial, which had slightly too-narrow & oddly colored index markers, but was otherwise very good as is This is the dial after Ziggy relumed it & then I applied a light coat of clear, matte varnish. (I think Ziggy had to scrape the area around each of the index markers before he added the new lume, which changed the surface texture of the dial. Then, when I applied the varnish, it left those little mottled areas around each of the index markers where the dial had been scraped smooth. I have seen 2 dials that Rolex had relumed many years ago (before Tritium was taken off the market) & the surface had a similar appearance. So that is another thing I am still debating back & forth.) The 2nd dial is my MBW dial, which has pretty correct looking index markers compared to most of the gen DRSDs I have seen. The appearance of the index markers on the 1st dial is about the same whether it is seen through the crystal or not. As usual, Ziggy did an outstanding job on the lume. However, I think the new, thicker lume intensifies the (slightly too-narrow) appearance of the 6 & 9 index markers, which, although they were not perfect, really did not bother me before the relume. So I have been wondering whether I should see if Ziggy can redo those 2 index markers to widen them a bit or whether they fit within the range of normalcy for a gen Double Red???? Toomuchgear -- Not an NDtrading, but similar. I got this dial a few months ago on ebay, but I have not seen another like it since then. Unlike the NDtrading dials, the crown is dead on accurate for a V1 DRSD (the NDtrading crowns are similar to later DRSDs) & the font spacing is much better. But, as I mentioned above, now the index markers look off (too narrow), but I am not sure if it is just me or if they are too narrow for a DRSD?????? By the way, this watch contains a gen 1570, which fits the MBW DRSD case like a glove (after removing 1/2mm around the outside of the 1570's date disc holder) With that in mind, do you think it is worth asking the Zigmeister to take another shot at widening the 2 index markers (&/or re-texturizing the area around all of the markers to remove the mottled spots)? What do you (all) think?

EDITED, so it doesn't sound "harsh"...please note I am playing the Devil's Advocate and presenting pics of the points raised, it's all in good FUN and not meant to OFFEND anyone or their opinion or anything else. Ok, I'm awake and here are the rest of the pictures I am willing to share. What I have tried to do, is focus on the points brought up as area's of contention, meaning that these items "could" be faked. I would like to add the following: other than POTR and myself, it doesn't seem as if anyone here has ever held, let alone seen a genuine vintage Miligauss. I searched for 2+ hours on the internet, and came up with nothing that would help me make an informed decision on this watch either way...nothing positive, or negative. Based on these facts, if you are prepared to state "It's a fake, anyone can engrave/stamp, whatever..." PLEASE support your "opinion" with facts. Otherwise your opinion is just that - an opinion with no facts - and why should I or anyone on RWG take your word and opinion as the truth over any other opinion? Simply because it's negative? Or because this is a "rare" watch and it's impossible to find it? Remember my 5508? Isn't that a "rare" watch...but I found one, and have it in my possession... So with that, I offer the following all in a good spirit of fun and interest, and playing the devil's advocate. Here are the main points I noted in these 79 posts, that could prove one way or the other the true nature of this watch. Point 1 "The letter "M" on the movement...anyone can engrave it..." Ok, so lets compare and look at the "M" in close detail, and compare it to the other letters we know are in fact engraved by Rolex on the bridges etc. Here is the "M" that identifies this movement as a Miligauss movement. Here is other lettering that we know is genuine Rolex, comparing the shape, patina, colour, depth, style, etc, I see no differences at all...do you? Dial side of movement engraving. Point 2 "Anyone can engrave the case (back)...that' easy to do" The caseback is NOT ENGRAVED, it's stamped, just like the genuine Rolex's. Does that in itself make it Genuine? Maybe not, but it does raise some questions. As for the comment, "the caseback is CLEAN, that proves it's a FAKE", I disagree, and I offer the following pictures. The 6205 belonged to my Uncle, a Navy Diver who used it for 30 years. The 5508 belonged to a hobby diver, who bought the watch new in 1962 and dove with it until 1984-85... Do these casebacks look "dirty" to you, or worn out or whatever??? No they are protected and inside the watchcase. Here is my GENUINE 6205 and 5508, compare these stampings to the Miligauss caseback. And now the STAMPED Miligauss. Engraved?? No look at the rounded edges of the metal near the numerals and letters... And of course lets not forget the outside view, looks worn out to me from years of use...don't see that on the NDTrading site, or Jewelleryandwatch cases... Point 3 "Movement and spacer and Faraday cage are fake..." Ok, so explain the following: fit, finish, and overall look, and note that the spacer ring goes on from the FRONT over the movement, is secured with movement screws, and then the dial seats on it and totally encloses the movement in the Faraday cage Stem location viewed through the ring into the keyless works. Point 4 "The LUGS" Here are various different views. Simply stating "It's a fake, look at the shape of the lugs..." means nothing, back it up with pics of a 6541 Miligauss from the same angles, so we can do our own comparison. Wear marks from years of end links rubbing the case. This can't be faked or happen overnight. Does that make it "real", no of course not, but it is an important point to note. Point 5 The ever popular between the legs picture...oops, I mean between the "lugs" of course... First up for comparison I offer a picture of my 1957 "6205 Brevet +" Rollie... that "5" sure looks the same... And now the Miligauss. Same? Different? Fake? If these markings are fake, how do you explain the caseback? If your prepared to say: "Caseback is genuine, Case is FAKE", then why are you not willing to accept that the dial has been replaced?? Of course no one would separate a dial from a watch, but people swap casebacks all the time...doesn't make sense does it? I think everyone agrees that the dial is questionable and bears an uncanny resemblance to the NDTrading one. Does that matter? My 5508 replacement bracelet was bought as a "Genuine" used one in the early '80's, bought in London UK no less... It was obviously not the correct one for the watch, so I send it to Ubi for analysis..."FAKE" is what he came back with. How could that be? Fake Rolex bracelets in the early '80's...maybe I guess, I don't know, but weird stuff can and does happen. That's it from me. I have nothing else to offer. And as stated before, I don't own the watch, and don't care either way what it is, or isn't. What I do know is what you see here, and how it all fits together and the finish of the parts. I look forward to the comments, and of course, your supporting data for your "Opinion" on the nature of the watch. If you can't present facts, then it's simply "your opinion" and considering that I am holding the watch in my hand, your opinion is no more valuable than mine is, because I have no supporting data either way that it's genuine, franken, or totally fake. What do I think? After looking at this and photographing the points I show above, here's my opinion, based on my supporting information I presented above. Caseback GENUINE Movement GENUINE Faraday cage GENUINE Hands GENUINE Case...not sure... but the engraving does look very similar to my 6205 Submariner... if it's fake, where did the caseback come from? Dial - Redial NDTrading Thanks for reading. RG

Natalie's passion is NDTrading Corp's ebay site. Natalie runs NDTrading. The 2846-2 are all swiss so far, but the gmt part is a chinese addition. My watchmaker got mine running again after a service, but his comment about the gmt hand was that it's decorative- not correctly geared. The movements coming out of the Josh 1655- the DG3804- as Rolexaddict calls them, might be another possibility. White dials are hard to find, I saw a couple on Ingod44's site last month, but they were bid up to $300 or so. Nothing currently on NDT, but it doesn't hurt to ask. But an NDT dial could easily run more than a whole PT 6542 w/ a white dial.

Mezz -- Aside from the notable errors it contains, the NDtrading dial is VERY well done. In fact, I was quite surprised when it arrived & I was able to view it through a loupe. The printing quality is quite passable for a gen. If only they had put as much effort into researching what was supposed to be printed on the dial as they did in how they applied that printing. It was so well done that I had quite a bit of a time deciding whether to replace my MBW for the NDtrading dial. But, in the end, I think either Avitt or Alligoat convinced me (correctly, with hindsight) that the MBWs sins were the lesser of the two when you consider the overall impression each dial leaves. And I will know better once the new dial arrives & I can view it through a loupe. If the printing quality is similar to the NDtrading dial (and it looks that way in the pictures), it will definitely be replacing the MBW. I am still not sure about whether to clip its feet though. Maybe I will place a few low bids for 1570s over the next week or 2 & see if I get lucky. If so, I will go that route. Otherwise, I think the new dial with the old 2846 will certainly provide a nice improvement.

Mezz -- I agree with you on all points. The thing that has kept me from doing much more on my Double-Red are the limitations & basic problems inherent with the MBW dial. The line about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear comes to mind here. No matter how much or how well you mod the MBW dial, the underlying problems remain (and work against you). Obviously, the seller of this dial did not make a one-off, so I am sure we will soon be seeing more of these dials either from the same seller or the usual other sources. I did check NDtrading's site to see if its one of theirs, but they are still showing the same dial I got previously which, although well done, has 4 fairly serious flaws (and some smaller ones) that prohibit it from serious consideration in my book (ranked in order of importance) 6 & 9 index markers too narrow crown too narrow slightly incorrect layout of lower 5 lines (it is not that far off, but I cannot match this exact layout to any gen) uneven spacing on words like 'CH RONOMETER' (oddly, I have seen this same spacing on a number of other redials, so they must be using the NDtrading redial as their reference, which explains alot about why there are so many bad redials hanging around) (This is the NDtrading dial, not the one under consideration & pictured at the top of the thread)

Eight years ago I built a 5508. Case and dial was from NDTrading- Natalie who is no longer around. I put a 1520 movement in there which isn't correct- should be a 1530, but it fit and of course they're basically the same except for the beat rate- 18k vs 19.8. This build ran me around $2,500. The only thing I need to do is maybe have some bevels put on the case and maybe then soften them to give the case some age. You don't say where the dial feet are on your dial- 1030 dial feet are different from the 1530 dial feet. If you go with the 6536-1, you might try to put a 2846-2 in there- parts for 1030s are getting scarce and it's a 60 year old movement. Even the 1520 parts are getting hard to come by- Rolex hasn't made that movement in 26 years. Also, I don't think I've ever seen a 5508 watch with the red depth rating.

Look around for a solid NDTrading dial, or see about picking one up gen

Well this is the beginning of the end of yet another watch project... I started this one in 2007.. worked on it for a bit, then forgot about it for months, then worked on it some more... now 3 years later, its well... almost done Started with this. Bought it used of this forum. I think its from paul or trusty, not sure. took it all apart to start the crown guards Modded the guards into pointed guards from the late 60's Got the guards done... bezel insert is nice and new.... that will change soon though. Also clarks t-19 crystal installed. Gen Rolex tube installed and triplock crown aged and faded the insert... Got it back together.. hhmmm not good enough.. ripped it apart again and did some more work to the CG's Now its finally done.. well sort of. I need a proper clasp on the bracelet and prob an NDtrading or Yuki 5513 dial. Im going to go with a plain dial instead of the comex dial. I knows its not 100% correct but I like it. All my frankens are so nice and pretty and I wanted one old one that was just beaten up and looked like it mad of had a service 5 or 10 years ago, so newer crystal and crown anyways. Bezel insert would be original by the looks of it Specs: Old Wo-Mart 5514 case modded Gen spring bars Gen 24-703 crown aftermarket triplock tube clarks T-19 dome crystal Modded, aged and faded bezel insert ETA 2846 slow beat movement Dial and hands aged Caseback sanded down All new lubed gaskets Gen 9315 Rolex folded bracelet with 380 end links. Bought from parts drawer of local certified Rolex watchsmith Future mods: NDtrading or Yuki 5513 dial Proper 9315 clasp or 93150 Clasp aged to match bracelet. Hope you enjoyed it. This is by far the most comfortable watch I've ever worn. Dizz

Do you have pics of the original case and the Yuki case side-by-side by any chance, Freddy? Here is what I'm thinking just from what I have gleamed from the boards so far. - ETA 2824/2 Movement $140.00 - ETA Adapter Ring from Yuki $78.00 - Yuki Case $800 OR NDTrading Case $1050 - NDTrading Gilt Dial $350 - Clark Gilt Hands for the ETA $15 - Repro Riveted Bracelet $150 This brings me at under $1,800 for the ETA movement or I could go with the gen 1030 and be in at about $3k. I am leaning towards the ETA movement because what I've seen online, most people seem to agree that its not worth it to put in a gen movement. I like to think that the gen movement would help me resell this if I ever decide to fork over the money, but is there any other benefit to it? The fact that parts are difficult to obtain for the 1030 is off putting as well. Am I forgetting something? Anyone else have suggestions on better components I should be shooting for?

The 1st is junk. The 2nd looks good, but I cannot tell you whether it is worth $350. You might compare to similar gens & top end Asian dials like MQ, Phong or NDtrading. Be prepared for sticker shock though. Thx! Will offer 25 dollars, hope the seller accepts

The 1st is junk. The 2nd looks good, but I cannot tell you whether it is worth $350. You might compare to similar gens & top end Asian dials like MQ, Phong or NDtrading. Be prepared for sticker shock though.

Did NDTrading close down?

The PT dial is slightly larger than my ndTrading dial. The ndT dial would have worked in the PT case as it didnt fall through the rehaut... would be very close but it would work. I'll go measure mine, hang on... Ok I'm back PT1680 case rehaut 25.89mm ndTrading 1680 dial 26.16mm PT1680 dial 27.03mm MBW 1665 dial 26.50 Even thought the ndT dial is smaller, the datewindow lines up perfect. The only difference is that the diameter is smaller and the minute markers are shorter because of the smaller outside dia. Looks correct when mounted into the case. There should also be no problems mounting a gen dial (without mods) into this case as the PT dial is already larger than the MBW dials. This PT dial actually looks really good now. The matt clearcoat and 5min marker modding made a BIG difference. I see no need to put in a more expensive dial after doing this mod. dizz

I have a MBW 1665 SRSD with ETA and would like to swap to a better dial. I have looked for a Yuki and NDTrading, but they offer only for 1570 movements. Are there any good DRSD dials for ETA?

My two cents: I spent a fair bit of time looking for an accurate rep DRSD dial. The conclusion is that there is none available. Each maker product has some flaws. Note that the current one avialable on the market is a replica of Mark 4 dial. The charactersitcs are "skiinny Coronet" and closed 6 (610 m). Let's start with Ebay seller: New model of NDTrading (the older ones are better) Older NDTrading (A geninue collector even said "he paid his lession to be able to tell the difference". Lastly, I found that MQ offers the best dial on the market. I think if you can widen the indices on 6 & 9 o' clock in The Zigmeister's tritum lume (like what Freddy did on his dial). That will make a rather perfect one.

Those are 2 different dials. I cannot tell you the source, but try NDTrading, Phong & Yuki.

NDTrading used to carry a nice 6610 dial with OCC text. I'm not sure if it's still available, and I can't seem to access the website.

I found quite a few 6263 dials that have metallic sub-dials but I couldn't find a gen watch with such sub-dials. These dials are usually quite expensive (between 350 and 750$), so I'm surprised the sellers would ask such high prices if these dials are indeed so wrong that most experts can tell from far away. Has there been a 6263/6265 with such metallic sub-dials (see pic below)?! Also, why has noone made a reasonably accurate dial yet? Yuki's dials have the rlx crown way too high (and it's also the wrong shape, it kind of looks like a canal street rolex) and the Rolex printing is not as thin as the real one. Phong's dials are slightly better, but their printing is also not thin enough and the daytona printing looks off as well (and all that for close to 500 - ridiculous!!). NDTrading has pretty decent dials, but they are not genuine and they are asking over 3k for a dial - that's straight up profiteering.

No argument there. I just think that if RWG members are involved in the production, the retail price (at least to RWG members, some of whom may be tapped to add to the knowledgebase used during development) ought to be more realistic. And as far as which cases would be good candidates for such an enterprise, I would simply use NDtrading's site as a production guide. I only wonder how long it would take NDtrading (& other sellers of Vietnam-sourced rep components) to drop its pricing (by 80%) once a realistically priced competitor appeared. My hunch is less than 24 hours, which makes clear how utterly baseless their pricing structure is.