metalshopper Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I am in the market for a Replica but because most of my friends are Rolex and watch enthusiasts, they would be able to spot just about any small flaw on the watch. I have been reading the reviews on all of these watches and it seems just about all of them have pretty noticeable flaws. I see wrong spacing on dials, wrong font, crowns to big, Guards are misshaped, ect... How is this even an issue when the original watches are abundantly available. Are there any companies out there that have exact replicas? I mean 1:1 watches where the parts could be interchanged with genuine? And if not, Why not? Why don't these replica companies get the genuine watches and machine all of the parts to be perfect fit? Obviously there are aftermarket parts for Rolexes that are made to fit the originals. Wouldn't a high end replica just be a sum of all of these aftermarket parts to make a perfect replica? Maybe there is some intricacies that I don't know about, but it seems like a real simple thing to make parts that are exact size and shape of the genuine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterfly777 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I am in the market for a Replica but because most of my friends are Rolex and watch enthusiasts, they would be able to spot just about any small flaw on the watch. I have been reading the reviews on all of these watches and it seems just about all of them have pretty noticeable flaws. I see wrong spacing on dials, wrong font, crowns to big, Guards are misshaped, ect... How is this even an issue when the original watches are abundantly available. Are there any companies out there that have exact replicas? I mean 1:1 watches where the parts could be interchanged with genuine? And if not, Why not? Why don't these replica companies get the genuine watches and machine all of the parts to be perfect fit? Obviously there are aftermarket parts for Rolexes that are made to fit the originals. Wouldn't a high end replica just be a sum of all of these aftermarket parts to make a perfect replica? Maybe there is some intricacies that I don't know about, but it seems like a real simple thing to make parts that are exact size and shape of the genuine... Best Daytona is made by Rolex. Or you can collect parts and make one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalshopper Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Best Daytona is made by Rolex. Or you can collect parts and make one. Thanks, I assumed that to be true. My question is that if I can buy a bunch of aftermarket parts and make a better replica than the replica companies, then shouldn't they be able to do this more cost effectively than myself. In short, if there are aftermarket parts that are exact fit, why can't the replica companies make these parts on their replicas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 The biggest constraint is the movement. Rolex movements are made in house and there is no aftermarket movement that matches the hand layout. The rep makers do a pretty good job with what they have to work with. The only Daytona's that are virtually indistinguishable are some of the vintage models and they are going to cost you between $2000 - $4500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalshopper Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) The biggest constraint is the movement. Rolex movements are made in house and there is no aftermarket movement that matches the hand layout. The rep makers do a pretty good job with what they have to work with. The only Daytona's that are virtually indistinguishable are some of the vintage models and they are going to cost you between $2000 - $4500. Well the movement, is actually the part that seems to be the hardest to distinguish without actually removing the caseback. All of the swiss movements are 28,800 BPM just like rolex correct? I'm more questioning the actual appearance and sizing of the replicas, why not make your parts exactly the same size as the originals? Why not use the same fonts and the same distances and layouts as the originals? Why are the crowns and crown guards hardly ever the right size. Create a 1:1 sacle of the exact watch. Just take the original part and duplicate the exact dimensions. It just seem sooooo simple to do so... Edited November 7, 2009 by metalshopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 If you really want to get it right you are stuck investing $4,000 + in an El Primero seconds at 9 franken or gen. The most fundamental issues are case and case back thickness (7750 requires a thicker case). I also don't know whether they solved the asymmetrical pusher issues on the 7750 version. My simple rule of thumb is that if a gen dial doesn't fit (due to either case dimensions or chrono sub-dials or date window not lining up) it will never fit the "no worries" category. I have a well-functioning Palp contemporary Daytona but it never gets wrist time for that reason. You can't cure case depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 This should answer all your questions: Daytona review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalshopper Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 If you really want to get it right you are stuck investing $4,000 + in an El Primero seconds at 9 franken or gen. The most fundamental issues are case and case back thickness (7750 requires a thicker case). I also don't know whether they solved the asymmetrical pusher issues on the 7750 version. My simple rule of thumb is that if a gen dial doesn't fit (due to either case dimensions or chrono sub-dials or date window not lining up) it will never fit the "no worries" category. I have a well-functioning Palp contemporary Daytona but it never gets wrist time for that reason. You can't cure case depth. Thank you very much. This is the exact kind of answer I was looking for. So the reason the case can't be made exact is because the movement used doesn't fit. What about the really obvious stuff like oversized crowns, Mishaped crown guards, wrong size dials or fonts, ect.... are those just gross negligence of attention on the part of the manufacturer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalshopper Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Thank you very much. This is the exact kind of answer I was looking for. So the reason the case can't be made exact is because the movement used doesn't fit. What about the really obvious stuff like oversized crowns, Mishaped crown guards, wrong size dials or fonts, ect.... are those just gross negligence of attention on the part of the manufacturer? Also, What is the cost of the movement that will fit correctly in the case? surely the primero isn't too expensive right? what about some of the sites that claim to use a Genuine Swiss 31 Jewel Valjoux Movements. how does that fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Also, What is the cost of the movement that will fit correctly in the case? surely the primero isn't too expensive right? what about some of the sites that claim to use a Genuine Swiss 31 Jewel Valjoux Movements. how does that fit? Bro those websites (i'm guessing it's Zenith motors) are spouting BS. If you wanna get yr mittens on an el primero you'd be looking at ebay for olde movados and ebels -> anything with the el primero movement aint gonna come cheap. We're talking upwards of 1300K in my experience. Once you do get a hold of said watch, you'd be loath to take it apart for such a project coz those olde watches themselves have such character! I tried that long and winding road but turned back at the precipice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 So you got why the tona subdial spacing is wrong? No readily available movements can replicate this. You can fool your friends. I suggest you do not attempt this with a Daytona though, unless you have a watchsmith in your pocket, and enough money to spend on it that you could've bought a decent gen of something or other. Honestly, we don't know exactly why they get stupid [censored] wrong, then drop a rep on us that makes your head spin its so accurate. Look at Panerai. This is a really simple watch to get right. They screw it up, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmarin.72 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 There are only 2 daytonas which might be even better than the originals...and only one RWG member has built them and got them both after a long period of searching and sourcing the parts.They cost an arm and a leg but boy they are beautiful There is no such thing as the best out of the box DAYTONA...period.Only ROLEX has got the BEST DAYTONA... and Ubi of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Why not search for the 'perfect daytona'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsupilami Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 hey, ubi is not the only member of the 16520 _RWG owners club :-) here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 most of my friends are Rolex and watch enthusiasts, they would be able to spot just about any small flaw on the watch. No they wouldn't unless you are passing it around everywhere you go. I have been reading the reviews on all of these watches and it seems just about all of them have pretty noticeable flaws. I see wrong spacing on dials, wrong font, crowns to big, Guards are misshaped, ect... How is this even an issue when the original watches are abundantly available. They don't care because they don't have to. Are there any companies out there that have exact replicas? I mean 1:1 watches where the parts could be interchanged with genuine? And if not, Why not? Why don't these replica companies get the genuine watches and machine all of the parts to be perfect fit? They don't buy the originals for the reasons above. Thus there is no 1:1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalshopper Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 No they wouldn't unless you are passing it around everywhere you go. They don't care because they don't have to. They don't buy the originals for the reasons above. Thus there is no 1:1. Thanks for your replies. So beside the size and movement problems on the daytonas, the only reason these replica companies don't care to make their watches good enough is simply because they don't need to? That's a pretty weird thing to say when trying to replicate watches where the small details is what makes them popular. Simply Not doing a good job simply because 99% of the buyers couldn't tell the difference anyways seems kinda, well...lazy. Are there not any companies out there that are willing to spend the extra time and effort into making good replicas that can be sold for $600-$800? I know these Grade 1A Swiss Watches are supposed to be a scam, but whats makes them a scam? Are they not higher quality then the $200 watches seen on the popular sites mentioned here? They claim to use the 31 jewel Valjoux movement in the Daytona. Has anyone actually BOUGHT one of these supposed High end Replicas to see what they are really about? Or are they just considered a scam because they are expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 there is no good Daytona with seconds @ 6. not in the price range below 300usd. Period. only other option is the El Primero and that will cost lots of time to build and also a lot of money. there is no market for 600-800usd watches. Besides us couple of geeks from these replica forum sites no other people would buy them. And there is no good movement available with has a proper seconds @ 6 without a poor modification job with placing 5 extra gears between the second @ 9 to the one @ 6. Then quartz would be your choice, but still not good. because of the ticking seconds hand which should be moving smoothly. If you so much want to go for a Rolex, why don't you try the ultimate GMT master 2 which are out now or the very good Deepsea. Have them modded, with for instance a relume job by Vaccum, have the movement serviced and you will have a killer looking watch with a very reliable movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Look for the threads by Ubiquitous. His cost 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost of a gen...but includes all parts visible being gen so it is indistinguishable from the gen. Internally, it uses the El Primero movement which is accurate to the gen as well...so technically the same as the gen, but with a different branded rotor. I believe his were 16520's (gen dial, hands, Movado/Ebel branded gen movements, pushers, crown, tube, bezel, bracelet, etc). Ubi's Daytona Thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The title of your post got me thinking. Who makes the Best Daytona - Cost not an issue As mentioned, a super franken with gen parts is going to put you into the thousands. Lets assume $4000. Although I can only speak about my AD, you could presently pick up a SS Daytona for between $9100 used and $12,000 new. Lets assume you can negotiate a new Daytona down to 10,000. $10,000 -4000 (you would spend on super franken) --------- $6000 remainder. FINANCE it. Many AD's aree offering 12/mo same as cash. Still a bit $$$$ but you will have the real deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member X Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Just to play devil's advocate, why do you want to get a Rolex? To impress your friends? There are a wealth of other brands out there that you could buy - get something different and difficult to get hold of, perhaps very limited edition! (Oh, and if cost isn't an object, just get a gen! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalshopper Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 there is no good Daytona with seconds @ 6. not in the price range below 300usd. Period. only other option is the El Primero and that will cost lots of time to build and also a lot of money. there is no market for 600-800usd watches. Besides us couple of geeks from these replica forum sites no other people would buy them. And there is no good movement available with has a proper seconds @ 6 without a poor modification job with placing 5 extra gears between the second @ 9 to the one @ 6. Then quartz would be your choice, but still not good. because of the ticking seconds hand which should be moving smoothly. If you so much want to go for a Rolex, why don't you try the ultimate GMT master 2 which are out now or the very good Deepsea. Have them modded, with for instance a relume job by Vaccum, have the movement serviced and you will have a killer looking watch with a very reliable movement. Well there definately is a market for 600-800 watches since all of these "scam" sites sell tons of them. Now if only we can get more sites that deliver on High quality 1:1 Reps. So far it seems like WM9 is the closest to a 1:1 Replica and he sells them for about $600. I'm more than happy to pay that. And looks like he will be doing a Daytona some time next year as well. I am REALLY looking forward to that. I am fine with the Seconds at the 9. I would just like a perfect 1:1 case/body/dials/fit, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalshopper Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Look for the threads by Ubiquitous. His cost 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost of a gen...but includes all parts visible being gen so it is indistinguishable from the gen. Internally, it uses the El Primero movement which is accurate to the gen as well...so technically the same as the gen, but with a different branded rotor. I believe his were 16520's (gen dial, hands, Movado/Ebel branded gen movements, pushers, crown, tube, bezel, bracelet, etc). Ubi's Daytona Thread The El primero 400 is the actual movement used in the Seconds at 9 Daytona anyways right? So if he used gen case and parts and just put the el primero in, how is this any different than the gen bough from the AD? Besides the fact that it was created by him instead of Rolex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 If cost is no issue, I suggest either gen, or building... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalshopper Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Just to play devil's advocate, why do you want to get a Rolex? To impress your friends? There are a wealth of other brands out there that you could buy - get something different and difficult to get hold of, perhaps very limited edition! (Oh, and if cost isn't an object, just get a gen! ) Well I have 4 Gen Rolexes already. I prefer to have the real thing, but I love the look of the Daytona, yet can't talk myself into spending 10K for a Stainless Steel Watch. Having a Perfect looking Rep will allow me to have the look I want without having to justify spending 10k to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Well there definately is a market for 600-800 watches since all of these "scam" sites sell tons of them. Now if only we can get more sites that deliver on High quality 1:1 Reps. So far it seems like WM9 is the closest to a 1:1 Replica and he sells them for about $600. I'm more than happy to pay that. And looks like he will be doing a Daytona some time next year as well. I am REALLY looking forward to that. I am fine with the Seconds at the 9. I would just like a perfect 1:1 case/body/dials/fit, ect. the scam sites useally don't stay up too long. And it is still same quality as 300usd. It is just a nice market for several hundreds of pieces in which the factories are not interested, they think in thousands of watches. Also because there is already a huge supply of relatively good rolex reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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