No More ETA Mov'ts. So long, farewell...

[eunomians]

I posted this response in RobbieG's 'All About ETA' thread today

Everything has changed...

Have any of you read the extensive article/rant/ultimatum in the August 2010 issue of Watchtime magazine with Swatch Group Chairman Nicolas Hayek? No more ETA movements/ebauches/springs for anyone outside of the exclusive Swiss group of cronies.

"I'm not going to deliver anything--no movements, no hairsprings, nothing." -Hayek

"Thank God he's doing it. He should do it immediately. It will only weaken the weak. All the weak [brands] should disappear" -Hublot CEO Jean-Claude Biver

I'm all for in-house movements, but I'm personally against the idea of attrition when it comes to strangulating the small watch companies until they die. It reminds me of when Quartz movements were introduced and ETA bought 95% of the old original watch companies with scare tactics in the 1970s ---> "Ohh, you will go bankrupt trying to make mechanical movements now that quartz movements are around. Sell your company/tooling to us [for cheap] or die a quick death".

Antitrust? Monopoly?

[Jkay]

Long live Chinese clone ETA!

Death to ETA fat cats with their Mediterranean yachts, and Heidi Klum fondling abilities (even @ 70 yrs old with huge guts!!)

Go race in the Mille Miglia, you bastards!

What a Euro Industrial Boss might look like:

[freddy333]

Sad, but contrary to pronouncements over the past few years, this news has been predicted for some time.

[Watchmeister]

Isn't that sucker dead? That is what you get for messing with the Chinese (and us).

[txcollector]

Very "smart" move by ETA. Kill your customers (or at least try). That will only strengthen the position of the Japanese manufacturers like Citizen with the Miyota 9015 that's kicking the ETA 2892's ass.

And of course Mr. duche Biver would approve of that. After all Hublots are nothing more than Chinese parts with an ETA movement (just like our reps).

[RobbieG]

Personally I'm all for it. Now that we have had the mechanical watch explosion and the popularity of fine mechanical brands is so much more widespread, the crutch of ETA will only serve to raise the bar for all the brands still using ETA ebauches.

A couple examples come clearly to mind first being UN. UN has probably been the most 2892 centric (and dependent) of the luxury brands and has recently created their own VERY 2892esq in house offering. It is well thought out to be modular, the finish level is of course created from scratch without the usual limitations and of course it is unique to the brand. IWC is another that has used the ETA crutch and yet has some wonderful movements with more on the way that will now make their way into all the watches. The wonderful 80111 movement in the Ingy and another watch on my list, the Jubilee Vintage Aquatimer might not have been created were it not for (as Freddy said) the long time impending doom of the day to come with no more ebauche sales.

For those sad to see them go in reps I would echo what someone else already said, the Chinese have had them cloned for years which in my opinion is the biggest "unsubstantiated" (yeah, right) GZ scam of all. The notion that they would make all these complicated decorated movements for individual brand & model $50 reps and do 1:1 replications of all these genuine watches down to the last wonderful CNC detail, but no, they didn't rep an ETA 2824, that is "Swiss" made in a Chinese non-rep factory only. They couldn't possibly rep that, what were we thinking. lol!

Anyway, the point being the Chinese ETAs seem to be of reasonable quality - at least for a sub $300 watch in most cases so what does it really matter. Any serious modder that really wants to hang onto a rep forever can always source a real Swiss ETA. There will be plenty showing up. In fact, old ETAs may become a bit of a cottage industry in of themselves before too long given the coming rarity...

[nakortheblue]

There's still Sellita.

[By-Tor]

There will be something to replace ETA. Maybe Sellita. Maybe something from our Chinese friends.

It's not a big deal. Automatic cheaper watches will always be available.

I'm not a big movement guy, really. Unless the movement has a complication. That's perhaps why I never understood the fact that Rolex 16610 and 16710 are priced roughly the same (when the other has just a basic 3135 movement and the 3185 is simple but genius complication).

Chinese replicated the 7750, and it's actually quite amazing how few problem reports there have been. They seem to be very, very reliable. I don't have any doubts that the Chinese ETA-clones can be just as good (as long as they make the parts widely available).

[krpster]

(as long as they make the parts widely available).

That is going to be the key. Right now it is no easy task to get just parts. A whole movement sure. Even now we gripe when the clone won't accept an ETA part. Funny how the tables may now turn.

[fakemaster]

Sad, but contrary to pronouncements over the past few years, this news has been predicted for some time.

+1. Everything is happening right on schedule.

[offshore]

(as long as they make the parts widely available).

This is the key to a lot of issues.

However I don't see a future which includes parts for the clones.

Which is going to create some major heartache, (if its not already doing so.)

A major byproduct of the ETA ( read Swatch) decision, is that things are already becoming "difficult" when trying to obtain genuine ETA parts.

In this country the genuine parts suppliers (Swatch) are less than helpful, in fact make life bloody difficult in trying to buy any ETA part.

Each inquiry is now brand specific, ( you can no longer ask for an ETA part, it now must be the Omega number, or the Certina number as an example) and if you don't have a specific parts list for that brand, and can specify the "brand" part number.... "Sorry we can't help"

If for instance it is for a Tag, ( which is marketed here by a 3rd party,) you will be referred to them....and they (Tag Distributor) don't carry parts! (The just refer you back to ETA/Swatch....who won't assist!)

So don't kid yourselves that things will stay the same....Swatch are taking the high road, and will make life VERY difficult, and our Chinese friends care less about parts for their movements...they only want to sell 100,000 of the one complete new movement to the manufacturers, and don't and won't run spare parts departments.

Whilst we have been aware for years that this was coming, it will be all these little side issues, and policy changes on parts, which will finally have as big an influence on movements,supply, servicing and repair.

I can foresee the day when the corner store watchmaker will need to have a huge spare parts bin of used movements, to scavenge and rob to keep movements running, and if they wanted to, Swatch could just say that all movements requiring service, must be returned to their service departments for any work....ala Rolex!

Today I spent a couple of hours trying to source some common parts for a 7750.

They were "not available" as ETA parts! (Although I was quoted a price, just NLA!) (BTW Cousins still showed stocks of both items)

When I then quoted the Omega movement number, (1155) one part was found to be Omega specific, ( It had its own specific number for supply into an Omega movement, which I believe only had to do with the color of the item)..( and the pricks wanted $235.00 for it).and the price of the other item had escalated from $8.60 to $32.00 as an Omega part!

On top of this I am told that post and pack for a 1mm dia size part is $25.00!

Do you know what the owner of that Speedy said when I quoted him for supply and repair?

"I may as well send it back to Omega!!!!!!"

So maybe there is more to the this decision than meets the eye....it certainly puts Swatch back in the drivers seat....not withstanding the inevitable "restriction of trade" cases which will be mounted.

Some learned gent here in Oz once said......."Life wasn't meant to be easy!"

Offshore

[wat44]

so is the future just no parts, and cheap movements - it stuffs up, chuck it away and put a new mvt in?

is that all that bad?

[offshore]

It is when the replacement movements are not available at low prices to those who only want/need small quantities.

100,000 = $10

10 = $100!

O/S

[Raijor]

There is a lot of money to be made by different watch companies offering up a substitute for the ETA. I can see GP tooling up and offering something they have developed with this in mind. Demand for a good fairly priced automating movement with date complication will not go away just because ETA is no longer available.

Also, some of the smaller watch companies could retain their market by using one of the Chinese clones as a base and breakingthem down and fully servicing and decorating them for use.

This may turn out to be a blessing in disguise .... at least I hope it is...

[automatico]

"as long as they make the parts widely available"

Parts are the most important thing to consider when you buy a watch to keep for a few years imho. Look what has happened with rolex for instance...parts used to be available from any USA supply house and now no oem parts are available at all from supply houses and they have closed out a large percentage of parts accounts to non AD repair shops.

No Parts For U! (aka NP-FU!)

On top of that, they are refusing to service 1530 base movements half the time.

What does this do?

Now a new $35 crown goes for $125 on eBay and most 1520/30/70/75 powered watches are worth more for parts than as running watches.

I believe O/S is right, I doubt clonemakers will ever sell parts for their cheapo clone movements.

Since a new 2671 etaclone (CH1813) sells for $35 retail from Startime, why sell parts?

If Citizen makes their high grade Miyota 9015 widely available, it could help too. I bet they start showing up in Bulovas.

I am not high on Sellita because it is probably just another swiss NP-FU! outfit who only sells parts through the watch brand's service facility.

I wonder which is the biggest insult to the swiss...a 100% china made replica of a swiss snobwatch with a china movement or a china made replica swiss snobwatch with swiss made eta?

I also wonder what a 'non replica' swiss snobwatch with a china made case, bracelet, dial, hands, boxes etc really is?

Don't get mad. Get even.

[RobbieG]

This is the key to a lot of issues.

However I don't see a future which includes parts for the clones.

Which is going to create some major heartache, (if its not already doing so.)

A major byproduct of the ETA ( read Swatch) decision, is that things are already becoming "difficult" when trying to obtain genuine ETA parts.

In this country the genuine parts suppliers (Swatch) are less than helpful, in fact make life bloody difficult in trying to buy any ETA part.

Each inquiry is now brand specific, ( you can no longer ask for an ETA part, it now must be the Omega number, or the Certina number as an example) and if you don't have a specific parts list for that brand, and can specify the "brand" part number.... "Sorry we can't help"

If for instance it is for a Tag, ( which is marketed here by a 3rd party,) you will be referred to them....and they (Tag Distributor) don't carry parts! (The just refer you back to ETA/Swatch....who won't assist!)

So don't kid yourselves that things will stay the same....Swatch are taking the high road, and will make life VERY difficult, and our Chinese friends care less about parts for their movements...they only want to sell 100,000 of the one complete new movement to the manufacturers, and don't and won't run spare parts departments.

Whilst we have been aware for years that this was coming, it will be all these little side issues, and policy changes on parts, which will finally have as big an influence on movements,supply, servicing and repair.

I can foresee the day when the corner store watchmaker will need to have a huge spare parts bin of used movements, to scavenge and rob to keep movements running, and if they wanted to, Swatch could just say that all movements requiring service, must be returned to their service departments for any work....ala Rolex!

Today I spent a couple of hours trying to source some common parts for a 7750.

They were "not available" as ETA parts! (Although I was quoted a price, just NLA!) (BTW Cousins still showed stocks of both items)

When I then quoted the Omega movement number, (1155) one part was found to be Omega specific, ( It had its own specific number for supply into an Omega movement, which I believe only had to do with the color of the item)..( and the [censored] wanted $235.00 for it).and the price of the other item had escalated from $8.60 to $32.00 as an Omega part!

On top of this I am told that post and pack for a 1mm dia size part is $25.00!

Do you know what the owner of that Speedy said when I quoted him for supply and repair?

"I may as well send it back to Omega!!!!!!"

So maybe there is more to the this decision than meets the eye....it certainly puts Swatch back in the drivers seat....not withstanding the inevitable "restriction of trade" cases which will be mounted.

Some learned gent here in Oz once said......."Life wasn't meant to be easy!"

Offshore

I still own one watch with a 7750 movement - an Aquatimer. I bought a spare 7750 some time ago and intend to keep it so in case I ever need parts for the watch I will have them and not have to deal with IWC or Swatch. I'll never buy any watch again from any manufactory based on an ETA ebauche no matter how much I like it. Too much future risk of headaches. Such a shame as they are great movements. I already have an impending isssue with one of my favorite watches - a 2892 base - - my UN GMT. They now at least have their own version of that complication that will fit in the case so I think I may get away with that one and I do love that watch and can imagine keeping it 20 years.

I think that many don't realize that even the source brand service departments won't be able to source parts for them. Imagine you are IWC or Breitling and you have all those watches out there built on ETA ebauches never thinking about future service issues. And many might add "why should they" as all those watches are out of warranty so it isn't their problem anyway. Sh*t happens is what they will say. And don't think Swatch isn't fully intending to stick it up Breit's and IWC's a*s at a 45 degree angle and break it off. What a great way to make your competitor lose cred with its customers. Meanwhile Hayek is such a hypocrite because he profited millions selling to those guys in the interim and took that money knowing full well this was the end game. But you know I don't have sympathy on the other hand because Breit and IWC had to know full well not being in control of that impending doom was going to bite them. They didn't react fast enough and it is going to continue to hurt. Quick and the dead. Just business. Speaking of UN they were one of the few who really took it seriously and moved quickly to squash their dependence on 2892s. Just in time. But they have thousands of MAJOR complications out there - big money watches with ETA ebauches that could become a big issue for them. I heard they are literally copying the movement and all the modules though so that they can swap them out 1:1 basically. We shall see...