lhooq Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 First off, please read Valty's excellent comparison of DW cases. My 6263 was purchased in December 2009, and I believe it should be considered a 2nd-generation DW case. Last night at my watchsmith's, an acquaintance wearing his prized, early-80s 6263 stopped by. Luckily, I had two of my DW Daytona reps (6263/7750, 6239/V72) and a camera handy. Unfortunately, I only had a brief window to complete the shoot, no tripod, and less-than-ideal lighting. I'm still kicking myself over not shooting the case in profile, or from behind! Anyhow, here's what I got. Gen on right: On the silver dialed Daytonas, the most striking difference between the reps and the gen is the coloration of the dial and the "depth" of the sunburst. This is even more obvious when I use the flash, resulting in a slight coppery hue. From what I've seen in the past, this effect can only be seen on original dials. Service dials have a more neutral tone, more similar to that seen on my 6239/V72. Gen at bottom: Note the different crown, pushers, lughole placement, and... brushed bezel edge? That's new to me! Also take a look at the pusher cutouts. Gen on right, from here on: I have a particular obsession with the crown side of the case. In these shots, you can see the 'shelf' of metal beneath the DW's crown--it's about twice the thickness of the gen's, though not as bad as the infamous "tumah" of the DW 6239. Also observe the thicker lugs on the gen, and (a bit harder to see) the slightly thinner mid-section. The gen's bezel insert is convex, though this is more easily seen in a later photo. There are slight differences between the mid-case contours of the DW and the gen, but the overall replication is very good. Much better than the beefier, more angular lugs found on the cartel Daytona. Gen in the middle: I mentioned the convex insert on the gen. This is obvious when you look at how the overhead lights reflect on the black plastic. Big thanks to the guy who owns the 6263! Bonus question: There's a jar of candies in the background of this photo. What kind are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcoxxx1984 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Very interesting. Thanks for taking the effort and sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacnz Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Beautiful post. Thanks a lot.........I wasn't swear that the GEN also has the VERY domed plexi....Very nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks for sharing. Such beautiful timepieces. It amazes how well we are able to replicate these watches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thank you Martin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks........and great shots even without the Gadgets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Nice writeup. I think the minor case contours wouldn't get to me so much. It seems that with the 16520, for example (because I'm more familiar with it), they altered the case design many times over its lifetime and that service replacement cases today are themselves slightly different as well. Variances are found in lug thickness, lug contours, pusher notching on the underside, etc. Really, I think, what this goes to show is just how amazing a DW based rep can be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Nice comparison, especially given the time crunch you were under! BTW, is the jar of candies Double Bubble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think there's more than one thing in the jar. Possibly some Tootsie Rolls, and Hershey Kisses ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sly Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 On the bonus question: Looks like a white rabbit candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted July 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 I'm glad so many RWGers enjoyed it! I'll see if I can corner the guy and compare a few other models. He's a hardcore vintage Rolex collector with many nice pieces. Variances are found in lug thickness, lug contours, pusher notching on the underside, etc. Really, I think, what this goes to show is just how amazing a DW based rep can be! Yeah, the later 6263s almost look stretched and are a lot pointier than examples from the early 70s. I'm still amazed by what DW was able to pull off, and would recommend him to anyone in a heartbeat--if it weren't for the iffy communications and all the long-lived, niggling headaches! Even if they're inferior reps visually, there's still a case to be made for the cartel's Sea-Gull based models... On the bonus question: Looks like a white rabbit candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Nice shoot, but keep in mind there were a number of production variations of each 62xx model & things like finish on bezel edges, crowns, case shape, etc., tended to vary a bit. Not to mention differences due to age & repeated re-finishings, overhauls, etc. So, other than the dials (you forgot to mention 1 of the most obvious flaws on rep dials - their weird, misshapen crowns (which is what I keep old, damaged/refinished DJ dials around for )), I would not carve any of these differences in stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie1976 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 WOW..amazing rep almost identical. thanks for comparision mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetor Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Wow... will keep this thread bookmarked. Lovely pictures and write ups. One question though, shouldn't lug hole placement affect the ability to use gen endlinks? hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Nice shoot, but keep in mind there were a number of production variations of each 62xx model & things like finish on bezel edges, crowns, case shape, etc., tended to vary a bit. Not to mention differences due to age & repeated re-finishings, overhauls, etc. So, other than the dials (you forgot to mention 1 of the most obvious flaws on rep dials - their weird, misshapen crowns (which is what I keep old, damaged/refinished DJ dials around for )), I would not carve any of these differences in stone. Absolutely right. The more genuine Daytonas I see, the less certain I am about anything! Other than the color, I didn't get into the dial differences at all, since I was so focused on the mid-case. I'll try to amend the OP soon. I've also got an old DJ dial, and I'm looking at some tall metal indices from a different rep dial. It might be time to give the old 6263 a facelift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Great comparison. Thanks LH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 ADDENDUM Let's take a closer look at the dials. DW's Daytona dials can be some of the best available, but the quality varies tremendously from one design to another. My dial, which DW called a '6240', seems to be one-of-a-kind, as I've never seen another in this configuration (ROC sans 'Daytona') or coloration. It turned into this shade of champagne/silver after a several months, while the registers have a distinctly brownish tinge under direct lighting. This also seems to be the only DW dial missing a 'T SWISS T' script at the bottom. Nuts. The first difference that leaps out in the macros are the subdials. No, not the wider spacing of the 7750, but rather just how rough the edges and printing look relative to the gen. Printing white on black is tricky, which is why low-contrast text has been a tell on so many reps. (Even Rolex had many indistinctly-printed black dials, particularly from the late 60s to the mid 70s.) The concentric grooves are much finer on the gen, but -amazingly- there's an identical number of circles on both the rep and the gen. Count them until you go blind! The contours of the subdial are also similar on both, with a puckered center rising from the depression. However, there are gen examples with flatter subdials. When I put together my 6239/V72, I was particularly obsessed with all the metal bits on the dial. This is not the best angle to see the difference in height, but the gen hour indices are about twice as tall as on the rep. They're not quite as high as the blocks you see on Datejust dials, but they come close. This may seem like a minor difference, but the reflections they make on a silver dial can be stunning. The tall blocks also make for a far more interesting dial when it's viewed at extreme angles. Then there's that one metal bit on top. As Freddy pointed out, the coronet sucks on every rep dial out there: DW, Phong, ig44, Yuki... you name it. There are some lighting angles that make the rep coronet look a little bit finer, a little bit more rounded on the surface, but the gen coronet looks fantastic every single time. If you want a donor dial to rip apart, look for the "wide-mouthed" Singer coronet, which is correct for all manual-wind Daytonas (save for a few jewel-encrusted weirdos). That said, a "tight-lipped" Beyeler coronet is still a massive improvement over what's pinned to the rep dial. The fonts on DW's dial were a big advancement over his previous efforts, and I believe this is the best aftermarket rendering of the ROC text. But the fineness and detail of the genuine script couldn't be clearer. It's harder to spot from a distance, but it's an easy tell within a foot--assuming you've seen a gen dial before. Moving onto the hands, DW's are remarkably good other than the dull pointer on the sweep. Unfortunately, they're a headache functionally, and you'll likely need to glue the centers to the tubes (per Freddy's advice) in order to get consistent resets to zero. Other differences: The lume on the gen has decayed unevenly around the edges. The DW looks like it has mothballs marking the hours, though that's correct for newer service dials.The fake aged lume on the hands is better, though newer DW hands appear to be completely white. DW's minute track is too far from the rehaut, helping to ruin the illusion of proper subdial spacing. Unfortunately, this inboard track is common to all of his standard dials. The exotics look OK in that respect. Rehaut depth is just about perfect on the 7750 rep. Dials on reps powered by V23s and Mystery Movements sit noticeably lower. I think that about covers it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valty Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Awesome thread ! Thank you very much for the photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Gotta keep up the willpower... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacnz Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Hope you don't mind, Here some photos of another model of the 6263 to compare. This is the hand-wind model with seagull movement and the frozen sundial at the 6'o clock position. Its is amazing how beautiful the 6263 watch is. Photos just can't do this watch justice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted July 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Hope you don't mind, Here some photos of another model of the 6263 to compare. Not at all. It's great to compare what's out there! Damn, the cartel 6263 has nice endlinks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naveedgt Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Thanks for the comparison. I really, really, really want a 6265 but DW is out of stock until mid august. I actually wanted one with the brown sub-dials but it seems he can't make them unless theres a big order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacnz Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 You could always order the Seagull version if you don't want to wait for DW. I got mine from Marvelous Replica and have to say is my best value for money watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mir36 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Just wanted to say this is a very good comparo. Thanks for putting this together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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