QC standards - what should be expect?

[Polynomial]

QC pictures were introduces couple of years ago and soon after became widely accepted by all good dealers. The "QC" was down to taking various pictures of the watch before sending it, and originally included the following:

1) Shots from different angles, showing all relevant details -- typically 3-4 pictures

2) Picture of the watch on the testing instrument showing how it works (and that it DOES work)

3) Lume shot

4) Photo of the EMS (or other) address label with buyer's address and the watch next to it

The first of the above is obviously the minimum but how about 2-4? What has happened some time ago is that most dealers stopped doing the lume shot, explaining this is too time consuming and frankly unnecessary given the latest watches (e.g. H, N, etc.) have good lume and this also does not differ from one watch to another. Now, what I noticed recently is that 3) is being dropped, so no evidence of the watch functioning correctly is provided and hence no guarantee it won't be DOA is given. Finally, 4) is getting dropped as well, potentially opening the possibility of cheating the buyers by recycling the same pictures multiple times (unless we post the pics with order number there would be no way of telling).

It seems the cartel dealers are still doing 1, 2, and 4. But there is at least one (major) dealer who seemed to have stopped doing 2, 3, and 4, which I think is not an acceptable QC standard.

What should be the minimum standards for QC that we should expect from the dealers?

[TeeJay]

As I said in anoter topic earlier, I have always been happy to view the stock photo and get what I am sent If there has ever been an issue, I discussed it with the dealer in question and resolved it. While QC pics are nice, I don't think they should ever be expected of a dealer. Afterall, when ordering anything else off the net, shoes, a jacket, a DVD player, etc, requests for a photo of the exact item to be received would be ignored by the company As long as the dealer is prepared to resolve any issues which might occur, I don't see any real need for QC pics

[subbiesrock]

As I said in anoter topic earlier, I have always been happy to view the stock photo and get what I am sent If there has ever been an issue, I discussed it with the dealer in question and resolved it. While QC pics are nice, I don't think they should ever be expected of a dealer. Afterall, when ordering anything else off the net, shoes, a jacket, a DVD player, etc, requests for a photo of the exact item to be received would be ignored by the company As long as the dealer is prepared to resolve any issues which might occur, I don't see any real need for QC pics

TeeJay, I would tend to agree with you on everything, EXCEPT when it comes to replica watches. I was sent some QC pics on a roman numeralled watch, turned out the digits were completely crooked in the stock photo. I asked for QC photos of the actual item, they were shocking. I was offered to have them repaired by the dealer's watch smith, to which I replied, 'if the problem is so bad from the factory, how will a watch smith do a better job?' and promptly had my money refunded.

Dealers need to do just enough to satisfy us, so that we don't complain, and I completely understand it. Margins are tight, it's completely normal. But QC pics are a very important and integral part of the process, especially with the 'close enough is good enough' mentality of the dealers. I don't think pictures are too much to ask for.

If it was an AD, I would absolutely not need to ask for QC pics. I know it'll be perfect. It has never not been, and I have easy recourse. From a rep deal, too much backwards and forwards, not worth the hassle. Better to make sure before sending, IMHO.

[Watchmeister]

I wouldn't hold my breath for standardization. Each person has to decide what is an acceptable level of QC pics. if you are not happy with what the dealer sent than just ask for whatever else you want. I have found that the pics varied even from the same dealer. And on the one or two occasions where I didn't have the pic I was looking for the dealer did supply it albeit a couple of days later.

[Polynomial]

I wouldn't hold my breath for standardization. Each person has to decide what is an acceptable level of QC pics. if you are not happy with what the dealer sent than just ask for whatever else you want. I have found that the pics varied even from the same dealer. And on the one or two occasions where I didn't have the pic I was looking for the dealer did supply it albeit a couple of days later.

Agree this is reasonable to ask for when you are e.g. unsure if given pictures are showing a problem of some kind, which might become clear when looking from another angle... But, how do you ask for a calibration photo if a dealer does not have the equipment in place or does not do calibration shots? This requires some basic standards...

[TeeJay]

TeeJay, I would tend to agree with you on everything, EXCEPT when it comes to replica watches. I was sent some QC pics on a roman numeralled watch, turned out the digits were completely crooked in the stock photo. I asked for QC photos of the actual item, they were shocking. I was offered to have them repaired by the dealer's watch smith, to which I replied, 'if the problem is so bad from the factory, how will a watch smith do a better job?' and promptly had my money refunded.

Dealers need to do just enough to satisfy us, so that we don't complain, and I completely understand it. Margins are tight, it's completely normal. But QC pics are a very important and integral part of the process, especially with the 'close enough is good enough' mentality of the dealers. I don't think pictures are too much to ask for.

If it was an AD, I would absolutely not need to ask for QC pics. I know it'll be perfect. It has never not been, and I have easy recourse. From a rep deal, too much backwards and forwards, not worth the hassle. Better to make sure before sending, IMHO.

I totally understand your point, and that is certainly a very valid example where a QC pic helped avoid a disappointment upon opening the package However. All I can say in my own experience, is the only disappointing watches I received was from Silix, and another time when I received the completely wrong watch, was when I ordered from a dealer called AppleWave. Other than that, everything has been good, and it's no secret that I don't order from any of the recomended dealers, so from that perspective, I just can't see the necessity for QC pics on every deal as SOP Of course, as has been mentioned many times, this truly is a hobby where YMMV could not be more true

[KB]

There is one other point, the more you ask the dealers to do the more the cost of these goods will rise.

Go to one of the off board sites and they will have stock pic's of each watch but try and get them to offer lume shots and pic's of the watch sitting in a tester or even pic's of the actual watch they will send and see how far that takes you.

Ken

[the_rymeister]

It would be nice to see the watch you have ordered having its time and date set, and it actually working. as both the watches recently that I've ordered have had issues.

[TeeJay]

There is one other point, the more you ask the dealers to do the more the cost of these goods will rise.

Go to one of the off board sites and they will have stock pic's of each watch but try and get them to offer lume shots and pic's of the watch sitting in a tester or even pic's of the actual watch they will send and see how far that takes you.

Ken

And yet I always received a watch which looks like the stock photo in a good working condition The one time I was sent the wrong thing, they replaced it without issue. [edit to add] Just remembered that when I bought my vintage Sub from Silix, they sent the wrong model, and rather than return it, I just kept it for an easy life... My only beef with my latest DJ, is that the lume on the hands is not fantastic, but other than that, what have I got to complain about? It keeps excellent time, goes underwater without issue, looks good enough to not embarass me when I wear it, and is incredibly comfortable in terms of both bracelet and weight. Of course, any recommended dealer could have provided the same watch, but I would have paid more for it, but with regards the QC pics, as above, I'm happy to buy on the strength of a stock photo. There's another watch I am vaguely considering buying, which is a fantasy piece, but I don't like the bracelet (Deep GMT with ceramic midlinks) If I ask the dealer if it can be sent with a regular DSSD bracelet instead, I could overlook my DSSDphobia and give one a try. If he says no, I'll shrug my shoulders and forget buying. But, if he says yes, I'm not going to ask for a QC pic... I have a good idea what the product should look like, and am happy to wait and see what happens. I wonder, would dealers rather go to the effort of taking individual QC shots of a watch (which of course means QCing the thing in the first place) only to maybe be told something is off and then have to repeat the procedure, or, would they rather display a stock image, send the item, and then deal with any issues post-sale once the buyer actually has the item in their hand? For example, a flaw visible on a screen-sized blown up macro of the dial, might actually be totally ignorable on the wrist, and said watch might have been turned down from a QC pic, when in reality, it would've been accepted

[Watchmeister]

As we can see from the posts each person has to decide what photos (if any) satisfy the buyers curiosity. The dealer can decide whether he wants to comply or take a pass on the sale. I was never focused on QC pics until I found out that these dealers sell hundreds of any particular model and became concerned that without QC pics you have no certainty that anyone ever looked at your watch before it went out. I will never know but at least I know that if someone takes a couple of pics that someone is actually looking at the watch on their end as well as me. By the way on the "watch on timer" photos since a timer only checks a watch in one or a few positions (versus real life) I view that pic only useful to the extent that something is way off.

[Polynomial]

.... By the way on the "watch on timer" photos since a timer only checks a watch in one or a few positions (versus real life) I view that pic only useful to the extent that something is way off.

If one takes example of the recent reps from H and N factories (specially H), I can't think of any cosmetic issues being reported, but loads and loads of movement complains. The new movements either being slow beat manual or the new 7753 tend to have issues, which might be picked up on the calibration photos. I my experience if the watch arrives in perfect working condition and keeps excellent time from day one, the chances are it will not cause problems going forward, and vice versa the near-dead cases can be usually picked up right from the start either by poor time keeping or poor PR (which unfortunatley cannot be detected on the calibration machine).

[K12AN]

Sorry to bring up an old topic.

 

I find it strange that when receiving QC pics from a TD, that there is not a single picture showing the full face of the watch square on.

Is this a deliberate trick?  This is the easiest way to SEE any mis alignment etc.

 

Sending 10 pics of the caseback, clasp etc is very nice, but not sending a single square on shot is pointless.

 

I feel bad asking for more photos and have even gone through the process of stating exactly what I need confirmation on with the QC shots.

 

The watches look OK - but can't confirm given the angles used for the pictures.

[kernow]

Ask for it if you feel it's needed. The TD should have the watch there and be able to do so quickly and easily. 

[K12AN]

Ok - so have now requested specific pictures of sections of the watches (and movement which I've paid for separately) I order to relieve my concerns.

 

I do feel like this will annoy the TD (as they have to take a more pics), but their original photos were not clear enough and were never of a flat watch.

 

On the seller sites, the photos are very very clear and show all that's needed...its not too much to have similar photos on your actual watch which is being sent out (IMO).

[Sogeha]

I agree on that one, a straight on picture is a reasonable request for QC or even a M2M sale