grifter Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Rep factories seem to be having a war over making a 1:1 Panerai these days. N-Factory this. H-Factory that. Very much like the East coast vs West coast hip-hop rivalry. Pam heads get to sit back and reap the benefits of a "who can out do who" battle of the Guangzhou. New fantastic reps seem to be put out every month! That is, until Tofu Shakur and Biggie Shrimpchips shoots eachother. But being a Pam fan myself, I hope the war goes on! But the Rolex lover in me can't help but ask, why can't they make a decent pearl, or a dial without the word "date" on it, not to mention crown gaurds, when the factories can get 98% of a Pam correct and the only fixes needed is to open up a bit of space between the crown and case and change the strap?! Hey factories! If you can hear me, put some effort into some 1:1 Rollies! Please! Purty please! I'll even put some sweet and sour sauce on top! Maybe the supposed new and improved 16600 will kick off a Rolex war. End of senseless rant. No offense to those who like tofu, shrimp chips, and or sweet and sour sauce. I love all three! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siesta181 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Because PAMs are the new Rolex... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deokhoon jun Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 you can say that again!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifter Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 안녕하세요! 방갑습니다! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_sphere Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Has to do with the fact that rolex goes all out on factories that produce 99% reps. WM9 was famous for what... 8 months on these boards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deokhoon jun Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 푸하하 정말 반갑네요 이런곳에서ㅋ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Great points, grifter. This year's Panerai rep arms race claimed me as one of its victims, to the tune of a few hundred bucks. Maybe more, if that 386 is halfway decent... I do wonder why that urgent, wartime pace of R&D can't apply to Rolex. I think my most anticipated release this year was the cartel's 1675, and... Well, the less that's said about that, the better. Think I'll go fry some kropek now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) I wonder if it has anything to do with company size/likelihood of lawsuits. I remember hearing (possibly a joke) about the rep factories getting too close to perfection and being shut down from the all-mighty Rolex Copyright Protection Agency of Doom. In any case, it would probably be all modern Rollies that would be perfected, not the good old fashioned vintages! Edited December 1, 2011 by ww12345 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 IMO Rolex is more aggressive in chaising the factories that produce replicas. And as already said Panerai is gaining populairity. Carpe Diem Cats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrmindalliance Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 영어는 최고 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 you can say that again!!!!!!!!!! ..and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifter Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Blue Sphere hit it on the head. Rolex and LVMH. Player haters. someone needs to post the "haters gotta hate" gif! I think if the factories snuck out a perfect vintage piece or two, they could slip under the radar. Modern models would draw more attention. The 1655 was pretty decent and had a mid case that accepted gen parts. Not to mention the great folded bracelet it came with. All for under $100! The second version even corrected the outer markers on the dial. Then that was it. poof. gone. 1675 like LHOOQ said.. well let's just say the little blue pill wouldn't even be able to jump start that bad boy. PT has the 1665 and the 1680's which are decent and we've all figured out how to make them pretty darn good. MBW's are still around too. Maybe if we all stopped and showed the factories that we like to whine like the Pam guys (and I'm one of them, so please don't kill me) about the little nitty bits and pieces like, "does that 9 look funny to you?! we're all not buying one until it is fixed!" And you know what? The 9 gets fixed before release! Sure it gets delayed a little.. but it gets fixed! How long have we complained about the friggin crown guards?!!! Just gimme a good pearl for goodness' sake! I was hopeful with the release of the new 16610LV and 16622 with the 3035 clone. Especially since Angus was asking who the Rolex experts were because he needed their advice for the factory. I mean how cool is that? Angus is super cool. Then it was released. Movement seems like a winner, but everything else is just like what we have been seeing. And we can't purchase just the movements. I wonder what would have happened if all of us complained big time, and the sales of those watches bit the dust. I bet the factories would bust their bums to get at least some of the issues fixed in hopes of moving some watches. I dunno.. I'm bored and starting to rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 The whole more aggressive approach on reps by Rolex may be a big part of it but I do believe there are other considerations. Panerai and Breitling originally leaped ahead because they used standard movements and so were easier to reproduce. Movements were readily available in lower end asian versions. Breitling reps originally moved ahead at the same pace. How quickly do their new models come out in rep form and how good are they. For both brands movements are generic, the cases largely come in a few similar forms and in reality other than color variations dials are often similar so the next model was that much easier to make. So for those brands we have seen model after model come out in excellent reps as model after model on the gen side came out. Rolex on the other hand uses an in-house movement which causes all kinds of reproduction issues - can't get rehaut right, crown too low or high, etc.And so absent a true movement reproduction you were limited with what you could do without a major movement investment. But the other big reason is that in reality Rolex has relatively few new models. How many subs (rep or gen) can you sell to the same guy? I actually think that is the biggest issue. With base model PAM's, Breitlings, Hublots and even Audemars, etc. initially completed how easy is it to put out the next generation or limited edition - and now you can sell virtually the same watch to the same guy again and again. And although I can't prove it, the rep market has IMH) moved away from the now older "I want a Rolex as a status symbol" crowd to the "I want the new "it" watch and I can now afford to do it - again and again. This same make the same watch in new editions has worked in the gen world and the rep world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifter Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Great points! I feel like the kid that wants Apple Jacks when Cheerio's are being served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 And as you know the kids always get their way while the parents wait. But seriously even the gen Rolex buyers don't respond well to change. Rolex came out with their "big watch" (DSSD), the rep manufacturers rushed out with some pretty good reps (same in-house movement issues of course) and the gen crashed and burned. Have we seen an improved DSSD rep lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 "I remember hearing (possibly a joke) about the rep factories getting too close to perfection and being shut down from the all-mighty Rolex Copyright Protection Agency of Doom." It's probably a joke. The rap is the same if you get caught with a load of 80% accurate replicas or 99% accurate replicas. The trade name is the law breaker...not how accurate it is to genuine. Canal Street dealers get busted over and over selling watches that would not fool Ronald 'Big Mac' McDonald on a foggy day. In my opinion, the easiest rolex replicas to pass off as genuine are DJ. One reason is because they are simple and understated compared to submariners, Ex II, gmt, Daytonas etc. Another reason is that no one pays any attention to a DJ. They figure it is a Seiko. Everyone who sees a submariner assumes it is a replica, I usually do. ...but if I see a 300 pound guy with a 9" wrist wearing a beat up tutone submariner with 15 stretched out links and a Super Bowl ring...it's probably the real deal. "How many subs (rep or gen) can you sell to the same guy?" Quite a few if each 'new improved' one is a tiny bit better than the last one. Seeking perfection in a replica is a long, hard road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjjoyce1 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I tend to agree with those who feel the rep factories catch heat the closer things get to gen. Remember about 6 years ago when the Omega reps got the HE valves, pearls, and seamonsters right? My son had one and we compared it to a gen - the tell was only the angle of the points on the hands. A set of gen hands from ofrei could easily fix that and make it a super rep. Then all those little signs started appearing in cases next to Omega's at AD's about anything purchased anywhere but an AD was fake. Right after that, the pearl went to crap and the HE valve went back to the 10 position, and later on "happy feet" developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispytonyv Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Just posted to facebook... nothing on his site yet. But this could be promising perhaps? https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150585626509447.500207.520849446&type=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Librarian Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='automatico' timestamp='1322748675' "How many subs (rep or gen) can you sell to the same guy?" Quite a few if each 'new improved' one is a tiny bit better than the last one. Seeking perfection in a replica is a long, hard road. Apple iPhone or iPad anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't know what that is supposed to mean... That appears to be old style rep vs. new style. One has the SEL bracelet and "Swiss Made", while the other has the old style bracelet with "Swiss T < 25". If that is an older gen, though, the tritium would not compare to a Super-luminova watch. Definitely an interesting development, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetor Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) if you want things done right, you gotta do it yourself. That's my motto =D.... we shall make our own REPS!!! i bet you I can get manufacturers to produce vintage rolex mid cases here in Canada, without markings of course. Edited December 1, 2011 by praetor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 That might be interesting! Know of any factories willing to start soon? Maybe making 5513 cases? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetor Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) I was actually thinking of designing a 6538 using Maya and have some machining shop with a 5 axis CNC and a press to machine one for me. Phong's 5513 isn't thaat bad, if you're willing to pay the price that is 0.o Edited December 1, 2011 by praetor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Everyone always mentions the lack of good vintage Rolex product (and I am a fan so don't misconstrue the comment) but I have always wondered whether there is enough demand to justify a major ramp up for upgraded products. It feels like the numbers necessary for a factory to get excited have moved from the hundreds to the thousands and I suspect they may be skeptical of the demand. At the end of the day though it all begins with a real gen movement replacement which in theory would start with that 3135 clone everyone is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 @praetor: How much would one of those cases cost? You could probably count me in for one of them! @watchmeister: I agree. I think the factories may be (under)assuming demand for vintage products. Maybe it is because I am not a PAM guy, but it seems to me that vintage Rolex > PAM as far as numbers go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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