ahchard Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Ok..... So i have been trying to make up my mind on what gen watch to buy as a treat for myself after all these years of hard work. This will be my first gen watch (apart from my first tag heuer) and therefore i am thinking hard which to buy. I have a problem with making choices when buying things... I want everything! First i was looking at a white dial daytona 116520, then the GMT II ceramic... Then i thought i would get a gen vintage 1680... But i also like the 1665... Aaaarrggghhh... Then yesterday a light shone... I saw the new explorer2 42mm and it looks very nice! So i decided to get the gen explorer2 42mm... AND build myself 2 frankens... 1680 and 1665! I prefer the new look and not vintage look of the watch (sorry dont flame me) so i guess building is better choice... So here is what i plan for my builds: 1680 red sub - yuki case - gen dial - gen 1570 - gen crown and tube - gen tropic 127 - gen fat font bezel insert - gen 93150 bracelet with 580 endlinks 1665 great white - as above but with tropic 39 superdome and not fat font bezel Any comments and tips on sourcing the parts? I will be hunting on ebay and vrf... If anyone has parts pls PM me... I will also need the help of a modder from the board to put them all together... I have been away for so long i have to do a lotof homework to see who is still around! I am choosing to use the modern 93150 bracelets as i heard they are more solid and comfortable for wearing... Would appreciate feedback from experienced ppl out there. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Wow, that is a great list of parts! However, a Gen 1680 dial is going to be very expensive... I would recommend an Ingod or a Yuki dial - cheaper and pretty much there as far as looks. I just saw that you said you liked the new look, rather than vintage; you may be able to get a service lumi 1680 and 1665 dial for relatively cheap (compared to tritium vintage). VRF may have those service dials. They definitely have FF inserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) i estimate your 1680 franken would cost $3800-$4200 not including a servicing for the movement and a gen white dial instead of red. add a red dial and you might as well just buy a gen 1680 white with the same amount. but this is average price and best case scenario on the white dial price. Edited March 16, 2012 by highoeyazmuhudee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Wow, that is a great list of parts! However, a Gen 1680 dial is going to be very expensive... I would recommend an Ingod or a Yuki dial - cheaper and pretty much there as far as looks. I just saw that you said you liked the new look, rather than vintage; you may be able to get a service lumi 1680 and 1665 dial for relatively cheap (compared to tritium vintage). VRF may have those service dials. They definitely have FF inserts. I have been watching gen non red 1680 dials now for a friend that owns a gen 1680. I have seen good dials from 400-600$ on VRF. To me, if you are building a serious frankin that is not too much... compared to 150$ for an Ingod. But..as High says....once you get into the 3500$ and up range..you might wanna just get a gen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Have we even decided a Yuki case is feasible for a 1680 build? I know people have had problems w/ other Yuki cases. I agree w/ WW and you really won't find a decent red sub dial for cheap, which would be under $1000. A decent red sub dial, expect to pay $2000-4000. So yes, Ingod might be a good compromise. I also agree with highoey's figures, although the low side on a white sub build could be $3000 with some judicious purchases. You left off hands, a good tritium set could easily run $300 these days, same for a fat font insert, date disc is another consideration- another $150+. Gen 1680 white subs still show up on VRF in the $4500-5000 range. Seems like I saw a 3.7 million one w/ a white dial in that range recently- you could then maybe find a red dial and have a red sub for $7k if you got lucky, but it's still a put together watch. Red subs run $8.5K and up these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexaddict Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Warning with ingod stuff, good dealer, good service, fast shipping, but : I ordered a 1675 dial, its worse than the first issue of Yuki gmt dials. the only positive thing, for 99 usd I have a round brass plate stamped Singer. It will be refinished, 130 euros more. Edited March 16, 2012 by Rolexaddict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denimhead Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 I'm also in the process of putting together the parts for a 1665 Franken using Gen 1570 etc and while I've looked at Gen dials, in the end I decided to go for an ingod 1665 Rail dial that will need re-luming but for the money I think its currently the best second option bar a Gen. The print quality is superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 ..I've looked at Gen dials, in the end I decided to go for an ingod 1665 Rail dial that will need re-luming but for the money I think its currently the best second option bar a Gen. The print quality is superb. +1 The ingod rail dial is great! Very accurate to its gen counterpart and the print quality is indeed superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 "I estimate your 1680 franken would cost $3800-$4200 not including a servicing for the movement and a gen white dial instead of red. add a red dial and you might as well just buy a gen 1680 white with the same amount." I agree. Imho if you get close to this much $$ in a project 1680...go for a genuine white letter 1680. I posted a few times about the 1680 project I stuck together on the cheap but it ain't much of a trophy. It looks Ok and runs fine though. Here is approximately what it cost: no hack 1570/75 movement with 'Mk I' dial and hands from a rotted out 1680...got it in a trade = about $900 DW case...from another trade = around $100 including tube and crown, not much of a case (not gen spec) but the mvt/dial/case tube all fit fine and it was cheap c/o mvt + mainspring = about $25 (I did it) drill lugs (me) aft/mkt springbars, hoods and cheapo hollow link bracelet with fair clasp...$40 or so Comments: As everyone knows by now the DW 1680 case is not made to genuine specs. The bezel is a spring wire affair and the case is 'pot bellied' like a DJ or over polished submariner...not flat sided. Gen spec crystals will fit the case but not the inner bezel. It is well made, has a good finish, repels water, and is perfect for an everyday watch that might live a rough life. I had a slightly used Yuki 1680 case a couple years back and it was just fine but I traded it away on a 1655 project. I looked it over carefully and it was very well finished. When I read they cost $34, smoke shot out of my ears. If this is true, there is no way I could pay $500+ for one now. I have a new 'L' serial number MBW 1680 now but doubt I will put the 1570/75 and dial in it. It would probably not be much trouble but the DW 1680 case with 1570/75/dial is worth about as much as the same watch made with the MBW case because most of the value is in the movement and dial. The dial in the MBW does not have dial feet. It looks pretty good. The numbers etc between the lugs are not nearly as good as the Yuki case I had or the DW case. In order for it to pass casual inspection the numbers would have to be seriously scuffed like the MBW 1680 case that FxrAndy posted about a couple months back. I have a red 1680 dial from IG44 and it is about as good as any non genuine dial I have seen. I would go with one of these in place of genuine and save a lot of $$ on a 1570/75 red sub project. Maybe someone who has put a 1570/75 in an MBW 1680 case can tell what had to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 I agree with some of the comments above - that is alot of money to spend on a franken when a gen is not much more. I have put 157x movements into MBW cases (1665 & 5513) &, while it can be done (& made to look quite gen), it is ALOT of work (grinding, sanding & polishing). Gen-powered frankens only make (financial) sense when the cost of the gen is prohibitive or the build cost is no more than about $1k (a bit more than a good rep). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 "I agree with some of the comments above - that is a lot of money to spend on a franken when a gen is not much more. I have put 157x movements into MBW cases (1665 & 5513) &, while it can be done (& made to look quite gen), it is ALOT of work (grinding, sanding & polishing)." I removed the movement and dial from my 'new' MBW Polex 1680 and the dial window hole is 25.5mm. There is a shallow step machined under the dial seat cut back from the 25.5mm window opening to 26.25mm. The dial is between 26.0mm and 26.2mm in diameter and shows signs of having been roughly ground down to fit within this 26.25mm step. The od of the etaclone 2836-2 is 26.0mm with a 28mm brass spacer. The od of a rolex 1520/70/75 is 28.5mm. The id of the MBW case where the movement mounts is 28.7mm The rolex movement drops into the MBW case just fine. I used a 1520 with a 26mm dial and it is pretty close to fitting this particular MBW 1680 case. When you add the date works and spacer thickness of a 1575...the movement might sit too high in the case to be workable...but maybe not as I have not tried it. It looks like this case is pretty close to accepting a 1520 and genuine spec 5513 dial. I may give it a try sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 It looks like this case is pretty close to accepting a 1520 and genuine spec 5513 dial. I may give it a try sooner or later. It can work. This is all gen (1520-powered) except for the xtal (Clarks) & MBW 5513 mid-case This is all gen (1575-powered) except for the xtal (Clarks), dial (modded, 1-of-a-kind found on ebay a few years ago) & MBW 1665 mid-case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 This makes me want to get a gen movement for my great white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlydog Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Have we even decided a Yuki case is feasible for a 1680 build? I know people have had problems w/ other Yuki cases. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahchard Posted March 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yes... I did some searching on the net last few days and decided i am an idiot... Probably makes more sense to get a gen... Missed out on one in timezone 1680 white sub in very good condition usd5,600. Also keeping an eye out for red 1680 in good condition around 8500... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinamm20 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Can you use this ? Have this to lay around, even have Singer stamp on the back. http://schakenda.dk/div/ure/Ploprof/DSC_5386.JPG http://schakenda.dk/div/ure/Ploprof/DSC_5387.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 I have put 157x movements into MBW cases (1665 & 5513) &, while it can be done (& made to look quite gen), it is ALOT of work (grinding, sanding & polishing). Gen-powered frankens only make (financial) sense when the cost of the gen is prohibitive or the build cost is no more than about $1k (a bit more than a good rep). Freddy, I always imagined the 1570's would drop right into an MBW. I guess it's definitely not a job I can handle myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Not in the old MBW cases anyway. There are a couple of threads detailing the work I did on mine that you might Search out. I understand the newer MBWs differ slightly, but I have never compared them, so I cannot verify that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlydog Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Can you use this ? Have this to lay around, even have Singer stamp on the back. http://schakenda.dk/...of/DSC_5386.JPG http://schakenda.dk/...of/DSC_5387.JPG your PM box is full Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 'New' MBW 1680 revisited... I tried the 1520 in the MBW case with an IG44 26mm x .5mm thick 5513 dial and here's the scoop: The dial fits into the dial seat just fine. The IG44 dial that I have is .5mm thick and oem is .4mm thick. The thicker dial is Ok in this project because the movement sits too far to the front anyway. The movement fits into the case just fine. The case screws will need thicker heads to back out against the rail in the groove in the case because of the movement sitting too far to the front. The stem is about 1mm too far toward the front of the case tube and will be in a bind. What can be done? Maybe use a spacer between the dial and movement. So...a 5513 dial with a 1520 is possible but not a drop in. Will a 1575 OPD/sub date spacer work? No, it is too thick. I tried an OPD calendar spacer on the movement with the IG44 5513 dial and the movement is too far to the back and the stem is about 1mm too far to the back of the case tube. The 26.5mm x .5mm dial does not fit precisely into the dial seat relief cut in the case (it is made for a 26mm dial) but this really does not matter as the difference is only .2mm or so. I also tried the OPD calendar spacer with an IG44 26.5mm x .5mm 1680 dial and the movement is still too far to the back and the stem is about 1mm too far to the back of the case tube. The case clamp screws will not fit into the groove in the case either. What's next? With no spacer and a 5513 dial... You might space the dial away from the movement a little bit with a spacer of some sort or a row of dial dots to move the movement toward the back and see how the stem lines up in the case tube. If you use dial dots the clamping screws will flatten them out as you back them out against the case rail to hold the movement so they need to be a little thicker than necessary to start with. Maybe make a dial spacer of some sort keeping in mind that any spacer is going to cause the hour wheel and minute wheel to sit lower below the dial and maybe cause hand clearance problems. What do I think about this case now? It is a pretty good case for an eta powered project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinamm20 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Cleared inbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 'New' MBW 1680 revisited... Maybe make a dial spacer of some sort keeping in mind that any spacer is going to cause the hour wheel and minute wheel to sit lower below the dial and maybe cause hand clearance problems. How about some washers around each of the dial feet? Since there is an endless selection of washer sizes/thicknesses, you should be able to select a pair that provide the exact spacing you require &, unlike gaskets, they will maintain the spacing without compressing when you put everything together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 "How about some washers around each of the dial feet? Since there is an endless selection of washer sizes/thicknesses, you should be able to select a pair that provide the exact spacing you require &, unlike gaskets, they will maintain the spacing without compressing when you put everything together." That's a good idea. Since the dial feet are at 6:30 and 11:57 and the case clamp screws are within about 5 minutes of them, it would probably work out Ok as the pressure from the case screws would be close to the dial feet and not bend the dial. There might need to be some support at 3 and 9 too...dial dots etc I also thought about installing a taller hour wheel and cp from a date movement and making a spacer out of an old dial to go under the 5513 dial with hoiles drilled for the dial feet to pass through. The catch then is would the dial foot screws still reach the dial feet? After I thought about it, there is really no need for the dial foot screws anyway as the case clamp screws put enough tension on everything to hold the dial down. The only time dial foot screws are needed is when handling the movement and this particular 5513 dial is a fairly tight fit on the movement. I had to sand the dial feet down a little to allow them to go into the holes in the movement. I'll probably keep this project going and see how it works out since I have gone this far. I need to put a gen spec case tube in the case and stick a no mag crystal on it. If it all works out it will be quite a bit less $$ than a Yuki etc case and a pretty good hollow link 93150 came with it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 well heres your chance for a gen RED sub dial http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1332359301/FS...+perfect+red+sub+dial just pony up the $3200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I just saw that red sub dial on VRM. I also saw a nice 6263 service dial for 1500 euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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