16800 Experts needed again

[correctime]

I've seen many 168000/16800 builds progress.

Seeing Red's latest project pushed me over the edge to go after the build. (Fidhle and gavidoc helped with the "push" too.)

Is is possible for a tritium dial to still be this active.....??

http://www.ebay.com/...=item27c8314c36

That's the look I'm shooting for...guessing what...8miil, 9mill serial era ??

This is the gen dial I've acquired for the build.

(I've also picked up an excellent 16800 case but until I confirm it's actual origin I'm keep that source and case info quiet)

A couple questions for the experts please:

Would the 702 or 703 crown be correct for the era 16800 I'm replicating ??

WHERE can an excellent Silver open 6,9 DW or DWO be found for this project ??

(a Silver DW is what would be correct for this build, yes??)

Special thanks to RedWatch for saving me from a costly mistake in purchasing a gen 3035 DW.

Any info, opinions, advice and comments will be most helpful and GREATLY appreciated.

[correctime]

.....

[woof*]

The ebay watch might have service lumi dial. He bought it in a pawn shop and doesn't know it's history.

[w.genzo]

Yeah service lumi dial and hands. About the dw, why are you looking for a silver one? A white one with open 6 and 9 would be correct, you have only to pay attention to the eta number sequence which is different from the 3035

[alligoat]

I have a gen 16800, SN 8,1xx,xxx and it has a tritium marked dial that still glows. But I figure it was a service dial that was installed around 1998 when Rolex was switching over to luminova- they actually had some dials marked 'Swiss- T < 25' and they lumed them with luminova. When those ran out they started on the 'Swiss' dials with luminova. My crystal also has an etched crown- so it's a service item also.

Now a tritium dial can also be relumed.

So the last of the tritium dials were used in the 16610 around 1997 or so- the dial for a 16800 and the 16610 are the same BTW. A tritium dial from '97 would still glow but not that well- 1/2 life of tritium is 12.5 years.

The first 16800's might have had a 702 crown- around 6 mill SN. But the 703 would be used for anything after that.

The same is true for the silver DW- early 16800's- 6 mill SN. 7 and 8 mill's would have the white DW w/ open 6's and 9's.

Are you trying to build a 16800 with an eta movement or a 3035 movt?

I used a silver DW in my 16660 build- it came from my old Paul's DRSD- it had the correct round top 3 and open 6/9 and a true eta movement.

[correctime]

Thanks for all the input guys...I really appreciate it.

That watch that I linked on ebay is what I'm trying to replicate...one just like yours alligoat.

( I regret not actually having seen my dial and case yet...they've arrived but I'm out of town...no idea how the lume is but the lume on the gen 16800 insert pearl is still pretty bright.)

w.genzo - Thanks for the info on the white DW still being acurrate for the build. I've only recently (thanks to Red) learned the differnces in the CW and CCW direction on date progression...3035 won't work for the eta, 3055/3155 and 3135 will.

Any suggestions on where to find an acurrate white DW (rnd.3/open6&9) that will center perfectly ?? Using an ETA with a gen dial .

I'm 99% certain the case I'm using is a 16800 ( I thought I'd found a gen case...but that didn't work out )

I'm told the 2836-2 will be a better fit for a case made to fit the 3035 and the 2824-2 will work better in a case made to fit a 3135.

But what about using an ETA 2892A2 in a 16800 made to fit the 3035 ??

alligoat....YOURS IS AWESOME Brother !!!! THAT'S what I'm hoping to look like.

Any idea if your crystal is the 2mm or the 1.8mm ?? I believe they were still using the 2mm (non LEC) sapphire at this time, yes ??

To me the date in the cyclop is a VERY important issue...I strive for the size and color to be as acurrate as possible and perfectly centered is a MUST for me.

I'm not really sure if using a DW with font size designed to be paired with a 2mm crystal will look too small using a 1.8...or visa-versa.............???

I've always been a 16610 fan (currently have Frankens of both the BK TW and the TC 16610)...but that metal ringed matte dial paired with the open 6 & 9 DW in a holed case just has me drooling !!

Sadly enough a 702 crown sounds as though it would be more acurrate using a silver DW...because I've always liked the looks of that taller skinnier coronet.

( I may resort to having to be a little off "era" acurracy...using a white DW but still going with the 702 crown...though I don't know the number of the tube for that 702 I DO know the 702 will NOT fit the 24-7030 tube...I've tried )

Please keep the helpful advice, suggestions and opinions comming guys.

I REALLY appreciate it and while I'm sure the 16800 is what I want, I'm not rushing anything...the project planning and parts acquisition is alot of the fun of it for me.

Thanks again guys !!!

Edited June 25, 2012 by correctime

[alligoat]

A 2892A2 won't fit in a case for a 3035 movt w/o a spacer ring and even then I'm not sure. Stick with the 2836-2.

I have no idea what you mean by a 2.0 and 1.8 sapphire- all 295-C crystals are the same, but the gaskets are diffferent- 1 and 2. DJs take a #1 gasket and subs take a #2.

I'd figure all crystals have an LEC these days if they're gen.

JMB would be the one to talk to about a DWO- he's been making them.

When I got my 16800, it had been serviced by Rolex and it had the new modern replacement DW- talk about small and puny. Luckily i found a NOS old DW- it made a big difference. The dials with the white gold surrounds are gloss dials. The early matte dials w/ no WG surrounds are the only flat dials.

Old 703 crowns have the tall crown emblem on the crown, just like the 702 crowns. Newer 703 crowns have a squatty crown emblem.

The tube for the 702 is 24-7020-0. They're tough to find, but marsupilami made some copies 3-4 years ago. I think the 703 is a better assembly and if you could find an old 703 c rown, it would be great.

[redwatch]

Alligoat is correct. The 2892-A2 will work in a case designed for a 2824 case, not a 2836 case.

[gavidoc]

Good advice on the 16800 in this thread.

Yes tritium from that time period will still glow.

My 1680 from 1976 sill glows as does my 16800 from 1983.

Also, the silver date wheels for the 16800 have flat 3's (or the 3 I own, owned do). Also all the 6 and 9's are open.

M 16800 has a silver date wheel and a newer AR 295 crystal which I believe is 1.8mm. The difference in date size is minimal with the cyclops vs a 2 mm.

The dial you purchased ( from eBay as I've seen it before) was originally glossy that went matte. They are cool but I prefer the matte dials myself.

703 crowns are normal for later 16800's so go with one of those and you'll be fine.

[correctime]

Thanks again guys for the time and valuable knowledge you're offering...I really appreciate.

I certainly hope the gen dial I've landed for this project (pictued above) is indeed a gen dial. Hearing more than once that a metal ringed matte dial was never produced has me a bit "concerned". The dial seems to be in mint condition to me so I hope you're right gavidoc....I'm hoping age made that gloss turn flat like that

So...a 2836-2 it is....thanks for that info.

Actually I do have a nice gen 702 crown and I believe I've located a 7020-0 tube with seals (thanks to Valty )

(phong offers a fantastic looking 703 crown with the early style coronet so I picked one up just incase.)

Thanks for the tip on jmb making DWO's...I'd heard he does water decal OL's and I will certainly be contacting him about it.

As for the 2mm and 1.8mm crystals...they do make a difference to me in both date mag size and crystal height above the bezel.

I already have a gen 295-C with both gaskets and have found someone that I deem trustworthy that claims to have a few of the pre LEC 2mm sapphires so I'll try both and pick the winner.

So far the case and gen parts 295-C, bezel assembly, 16800 tritium insert and 702 crown are waiting for me.

(though thanks to the help of a great guy I'll be landing a 7020 tube and a NOS 16800 tritium insert and it may find it's way onto this project )

The dial and phong crown are on the way so that leaves a DWO, 2mm sapphire a mvt.with ring, a hand set and a 93150/593 Bracelet left to track down

Can anyone recommend an excellent aftermarket 93150 and 593 end pieces.

(I may go gen with that but perhaps someone has located and used a rep/aftermarket bracelet that is good enough to recommend......????

This one will get a gen 93150 clasp anyway.)

As it seems to be customary to post pics of the "parts pile" before a build, I will indeed do that when I have everyting together.

Again, THANKS to everyone that's taken the time to share and post the knowledge necessary to make this project start to come together.

I'll keep you all posted as progress is being made.

Edited June 26, 2012 by correctime

[gavidoc]

I have a gen 2 mm Pre lec crystal. It has a few marks but still good. Can't see the marks except in certain light if interested. I don't have a gasket.

The dial looks fine. The early gloss dials did one of 3 things.

1: nothing

2. Turn matte

3. Crack like redwatch's dial

Just be aware that they never did a matte dial with white gold surrounds.

[correctime]

Thanks brother.

And I do appreciate it.

I've read some things recently and have generated a few more questions for the pros.

So rather than start another thread, I thought I'd keep them here.

I've read that an eta 2678 offered by TC may be an option for using the gen dial feet ( hate to clip them if it can be done otherwise)

Drilling out holes for the gen dial feet was mentioned but I'm unclear as to what needs drilled.

The large brass mvt. ring or the mvt. main plate itself ??

I've asked aroung about the possibilty of drilling feet holes in the main plate of the 2836-2.

It seems that's not possible without making the DW diameter smaller....if that's even possible

Will the 2678 fit a case designed for a 3035 ??

If so, with what mvt ring....and where to find a 2678 hand set ??

And back to the correct open 6 and 9 DW or overlay.

.... this is a difficult one to find so...

....can a gen 3055 or 3155 DW be made to fit as an overlay ??

....can a gen 3135 DW be "converted" to the open 6 and 9 with the skillful use of white paint to cover enough to make them look open

or perhaps with the skillful use of a scalpal to of flick off a tiny bit of the Black font to open the 6's and 9's up. ??

If so, who might have the skill to do this....I simply don't feel I have what it takes.

Thanks again for all the input and help

[w.genzo]

a gen 3055 would work, but it's hard to find. Also an early 3135 with open 6 and 9, but it's even harder to get.

Here's my 16014 with gen 3055 dwo

[correctime]

Thanks for sharing, Brother.

Any help locating the correct DW needed would be greatly appreciated

[correctime]

.............

[Nanuq]

Hey RWG thanks for this great collaboration effort with Correcttime. It's great to see a newb that's so gung-ho to build a good piece, and all you guys sharing years of hard-won knowledge. That's what makes this place great!

[correctime]

Nanuq:

Thanks Brother.

And I do agree.

The very little I've learned so far I've learned on the Forums and it's only because of guys like this willing to lend some info for the cause

Thanks again guys...I really do appreciate it.

[correctime]

I'm back with another request for info and opinions.

Regarding the DW needed for this build...I still haven't been able to locate the one I'm after.

What series 16800 would I be replicating by using a Silver DW like this ????

[alligoat]

A silver DW would have been used in the earliest 16800s- around 6 mill SN, with the matte dial.

[gavidoc]

What Alligoat said.

Also, how'd that crystal I sent work out? Never heard how it went.

[correctime]

What Alligoat said.

Also, how'd that crystal I sent work out? Never heard how it went.

I can't say Brother.

I'm out of town until Friday and no word from the house that it has arrived .....??

[correctime]

a gen 3055 would work, but it's hard to find. Also an early 3135 with open 6 and 9, but it's even harder to get.

Here's my 16014 with gen 3055 dwo

Indeed. It seems both the 3055 AND early 3135 DW's are next to impossible to find.

Edited July 17, 2012 by correctime

[correctime]

A silver DW would have been used in the earliest 16800s- around 6 mill SN, with the matte dial.

The matte dial without the white gold ringed marker I take it....>

Man the DW is a tough one !!

[gavidoc]

The matte dial without the white gold ringed marker I take it....>

Man the DW is a tough one !!

Correct. Your matte dial with gold surrounds was originally glossy. Some cracked, some went matte, some stayed glossy. Depended on the batch. The only true matte dials were the old style matte dials with the maxi plots.

Let me know on the crystal. I sent it the day after I got your address. Hopefully it arrived. Figures as I sent it plain jane 1st class.

Good luck finding an open 6 and 9 3135 date wheel. Very difficult to find. I really lucked into mine. Best to just do an overlay. It'd be a shame to destroy a gen open 6 and 9 3135 datewheel if you find one for use in a rep.

[correctime]

They are indeed elusive.

After alot of searching...and alot of thought I decided not to ruin a good gen date wheel or gen dial by clipping the feet.

The sollution to these problems arrived today.

So all I need to complete the head is a set of tritium hands to match the dial.

A gen 93150 with 593's and I'll be on my way

Pics of the parts pile comming sometime this week.

Thanks for all the help and info guys.