Capital10 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I was recently scammed by an extremely dishonest seller in the sales corner on timezone.com. I want to warn everyone and tell the story in hopes that someone may have info on the steps I will be taking to rectify the issue. The sales ad is here: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=6348672&rid=74758#msg_6348672 I sent a private message to him (he uses the name Peter Harewood and is from Canada)and he replied quickly. Saying the watch was available and had been in his safe for several years. We agreed on a price and I sent his Paypal in the amount of 2800, I know if the price seams too good it probably is. I had been saving up for my first Breitling and that's about what I had saved. After I made payment he said that Paypal was going to hold the payment for 21 days and he couldn't afford that. So I said I understood and to go ahead and refund the payment. He did and I was bummed because I got excited about getting the watch. Then he says he has an "idea" for us. If I send 1/2 the amount as gift then he will send the watch and once I receive it I could then send the rest to him. This way he doesn't have to wait the 21 days. Thankfully I was thinking clearly enough not to do that. I told him I was not comfortable with that and would have to pass on the watch. I became suspicious at this point. I looked up the Paypal policies and found out that if a hold is placed the buyer can report all is well on receipt of the item and the funds are released. He sent me another email saying he's trying to make this work to protect both of us while still making the transaction, and he offered to accept just 1/4 of the payment as gift and he would just trust that I would send the rest once I received the watch. At this point I was convinced it was a scam and stated to tell him why his reasoning was incorrect and if he accepted the original payment and all was well once I got the watch all the funds would be available to him at the same time as if we went with one of his stupid "ideas" I wish I could tell you this is where it ended, but unfortunately not. He emailed the next evening and said he would go ahead and accept the payment for goods and wait until I receive the watch to access the funds. I wanted the watch so bad all my suspicions went out the window when he said this. So I sent the payment for goods and he said he would ship it the next day (Friday) and I would receieve it by Monday. Over a week later the pacakge arrived and I must have set a USPS record for number of times a package was tracked while being delivered. The postman left it in the mailbox and no signature was required I thought that was strange. Who sends a watch worth 3000 dollars and doesn't require signature on delivery. I got home on Friday and found that I was in my mailbox in a box that wouldn't have been big enough for the watch I paid for with full box and papers. So when I opened the box to find an old rusty small propane canister wrapped in a disgusting tshirt, I was irraite!! Below I am posting pictures of the box and its contents. So before doing anything I powered up the laptop and logged onto Paypal to open a dispute, then promptly called Paypal and she then escalated the dispute to a complaint. The lady on the phone put me more at ease and said I did everything right and I should have the funds back within 10 days. I got an email last night late saying he replied to the complaint and that Paypal would be looking into it and inform me when a decision is made. So beware of this seller and anyone acting like this don't get duped like I did. My question is has anyone ever been involved in a dispute like this through Paypal as a buyer and how did it turn out, how long did it take, and what information did you give if any. Any information/help you can give would be appreciated. Here are pictures of one of the most disappointing and frustrating days of my life: First a picture of the watch I thought I was buying for $2800 Then the box and what I received: And the shipping label when he insured it for $100, so clearly he was not shipping a $3000 watch, no insurance and no delivery signature: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I have only had this happen with a couple of small purchases through pp but I can tell you that they are always on the buyers side I assume you have had contact with the seller? What has he had to say so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiis Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Sorry to hear about this. I think circumstances rarely allow for it - but just as a potentail FYI for others - if you have bought a high value piece and the unopened box arrives that can't house the goods ordered... or even if you suspect something is not right - this may sound silly - but... open the box very carefully and DON'T touch the item inside until you can see that you got what you ordered. If clearly not - as in this case - you're in a nice position to have prints lifted. That way - if a seller says, "I didn't sent that - the buyer stuffed that in my box and said that's what I sent him/her... then, he's in a hard way to explain how his/her prints go ont he bad goods. The weight listed by the post office can also be of help... call an AD and explain your situation and ask them if they can give you (or a friend can give you) the weight of the Gen box housing the watch.... if the listed post office weight is off (and unless they planned very carefully it won't) - then they could not possibly have send the right stuff just because of the off weight. Hope you get a refund or the seller gets his act together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Contact Paypal by phone, immediately, & explain the situation. They will probably ask for the pics & copies of any correspondence as well. Most likely, although it may take some time to sort things out, you will get a full refund & the seller will get a very unexpected knock on his door. Oh, & never buy anything of value from a newbie member of any website unless someone you know well can personally vouch for him (I see he joined TZ last month). Always a big mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Damn I'm reading more and more of these. These a$$Ho$@ are making it harder and harder for us good guys. Hope all turns out OK. Good luck. You're right. the problem is while we are working at a real job, trying to earn and honest living the scammers and con artists are sitting around figuring out new and novel ways to cheat folks out of their money. Had and other example right here. Guy who is a member here, Repgeeek and other forums including the Rolex forum just sold a TC sub on Ebay as a genuine, brought over 5K. Some folks over on the Rolex Forum said it was a fake and explained why it was, the guy had the audacity to post a reply over there, claiming the watch was real, and he had a receipt for a genuine insert from the Rolex Forum Sales forum to back up his claim!! The thread is over on the Rolex forum here. honestly, I'm really getting leery of buying any "genuine" watches on Ebay and even some of the "legit" genuine watch sales sites. They have all gotten so big, and so many registered members, it's impossible to police the sites ,they are so filled with scammers grifters and con artists, it's not even funny. the guy who sold the Breitling probably didn't even own the watch, he more than likely stole those photos off a sales site! and if he did own the watch, he had no intention of selling it. I hope TZ bans him for life, and Paypal does the same. Good Luck, and hopefully you get your money back. A word to the wise, from someone who has been really lucky, don't let your desire to buy something and your anticipation and excitement , cloud your good sense and judgment. If your scammometer starts to sound off, which it did when he was trying all those "Creative" financing ploys, it's always a good idea to walk away. Unless you are buying some super rare "one of a kind" object, there will always be another one available on down the road. Better to wait and be rewarded for your patience, rather than jump in and be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Paypal will refund you promptly. I don't understand what this guy was thinking. The funds are withheld he won't get a dime. All he did was to throw postage money away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 It is very rare (so rare that I have only seen it happen 1 time in more than 25 years) that an honest seller will post dark, distant, fuzzy, shadowy or otherwise hard-to-see pics of a genuine watch for sale. On the other hand, it is common for rogues to do these things in an effort to obfuscate the details of their crime. Excuses like 'I just got this camera' or 'my wife/friend/dog/fish took the pics' or 'the best I can do with this old camera/phone' are all lies, or should be taken as lies. 1 other thing - Never, ever purchase a Rolex watch without seeing good, clear pics of the movement. And if you are unsure what a gen Rolex movment looks like, ask someone who does know. That way, at the very least, if you end up with a franken, you end up with something of value you can resell to recoup some of your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Freddy is absolutely right, the scammers know all the tricks, it's our job to know them as well! Most of the honest sellers are folks who move a fair number of watches, they know how to open the back of a Rolex, and they know how to take good clear photos. the honest guys know that one of the keys to selling something pretty fast and for a top price are lots of good quality photos and a good description. Even if a person is not a big seller, it's certainly not unreasonable to ask them to take the watch to a watchmaker, have them open the back and then take some good quality movement photos. Another thing that Freddy pointed out that is very important, we need to know what to look for or find someone who does. On several occasions, I have been contemplating a purchase, and will post the link on The Rolex Forum, the Military Watch Resource or WatchUseek, and ask others what they think about this particular watch. Not everybody on the genuine forums are experts, and there are quite a few folks over there that think they know more than they really do, but there are some really knowledgable folks on all the forums, and for the most part if some of those guys say a watch is OK, then it more than likely is. you have to use judgement when asking ,you can't post 10 links to watches for sale every other day and expect folks to vette watches for you, but if you are and occasional buyer, I believe that most people are quite willing to help.For most of us, a watch purchase in the multi thousand dollar range is a pretty big outlay and not something we do on a whim. With all the scammers out there, you just have to work harder than they do to stay ahead of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital10 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 so far all i said to his was that I received the propane canister he sent, and that it was very funny but to refund my money immediately, to that his reply was What???????? You didnt get the watch????? So my guess is that he will try to fight it with paypal, but i doubt being that he is a scammer he has anywhere near the perfect long time history with paypal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Ahhh the old propane in the box scam, lol, but seriously I know all will be ok, Paypal will refund you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Assholes never prosper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Propane in a box? I'd report that to the USPS too. It carries a 5 figure fine for mailing explosives. Just sayin' ......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronoluvvv Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 PayPal is good @ hiding behind it's T&Cs the 'gift' deal is easy for them to circumvent and they are even better @ taking responsibility ONLY for the delivery, not the condition or contents of the package i'm hoping you used a CC to fund this 'gift' because that'd be your best bet to fight back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asciwhite Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 ------------- F)(/&/%&/¤#%¤#%¤#"% Hope you can clear everything up! Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Propane in a box? I'd report that to the USPS too. It carries a 5 figure fine for mailing explosives. Just sayin' ......... I thought the same thing, it's illigal to send flammables, explosives or propellants thru the US mail, I would take the package and the propane bottle down to your local PO and file a criminal complaint. Heck, this could have blown up your house. (not really, but it sounds good when you are making a complaint) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital10 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I didn't send the payment as gift, it was for goods. I plan on making a police report also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red series 3 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I nearly got scammed on a rolex datejust off ebay. I thought It was close to the mark maybe jsut a little under market value. distant photos, out of focus but I think to myself I can't take a decent photo of a watch maybe it will be ok. It arrives in a padded mail envelope with the whole package weighing just under 50 grams. As soon as I saw the packing label I knew I'd been duped. I didn't even want to open the item. But paypal made me open the package saying that I needed to take it for authentication and provide provenance that it was fake. I went to my local RSC who know me well. I opened the package there and was basicly kicked out. They had no interest in providing me with any paperwork saying that it was a fake. They said that they only seize items that are a believable fake and as there was not way that this watch could be confused with the genuine article they couldn't care less. But remove it from this premises you can't have that here. I felt like I had to jump through hoops to provide the provenance they requested was a pain in the [censored]. Buy from RWG at least they are an honest bunch here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asciwhite Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 ------------------- If you pull shit here, this is what happens!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 ------------------- If you pull shit here, this is what happens!!! you-came-to-the-wrong-neighborhood.jpg Your pic reminds me of my pal maxman.. same level of insanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjagaiden Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Feeling your pain. Hope the money comes back soon, and you have some way to get this guys b@lls on a plate. I do hope you get a Gen copy of your Breit, but I suspect the only way to be 100% sure is at an AD. I've seen Breits on sale in Costco in the UK and the guys on the forum said they aren't real. This is from a bricks and mortar establishment! N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 In Canada, fraud under 5K is an indictable offense that carry a maximum jail term of 2 years. I think you have enough information from the package and have this reported to the Ottawa police. You have all the information available to perhaps report a fraud. Show this M*&#@KER that he can't hide behind a keyboard and get away with a scam https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Sentencing/Offences/Fraud_Under_$5,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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