Phong cases - be careful before buying, some advises & my experience about it

[Valty]

Hi RWG

 

Today was a really good day, just finished my first Daytona after a very long journey to find parts, and the most important, finding the good watchmaker to make the dream happen.

 

As you probably know, making a Daytona is really a hard thing to do considering the lack of parts, and the lack of good watchmakers.

 

And even bad watchmakers are claiming they are good... I'll make a thread about this one day.

 

About my new Daytona, I'll make another thread very soon with some photos... I think you'll enjoy it

 

--

 

For now, this is a big warning for all the Phong customers :

 

Be very careful about the case you will buy from him

 

From my own experience :

 

- Pushers holes are NOT at the Rolex specs. It is ~2,4mm instead of 2,5mm. Means, it works fine with the Phong aftermarket pushers, but you CANNOT fit gen pushers if you want to. Threads are very very thin, and my WM strongly discouraged me to retap / refill the pushers holes.

 

For the persons who said the Phong pushers are the same than the Rolex replacement service (P302). No, it is not. Not at all

 

- Lugs holes are NOT at the good position at all. I've seen that more that one time, and it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to fit the correct end links, a.k.a. the 571. The most stupid thing is you are forced to use DateJust 557 end links if you want to stay "cheap" but gen. What a shame.

 

And it seems it's happening with the majority of the Phong cases I have seen so far.

 

From seen experience :

 

- Sometimes, the hole for the case tube is not at the Rolex specs. Hopefully, it didn't happen to me, but this is a real, real, real shame considering the price he is asking for his cases.

 

--

 

So from now, I will send him case tube, crystal, and pushers (if it's a Daytona case) to make sure all is working right. I strongly encourage you to do the same, until he decide to stop shipping cases what are not at the Rolex specs.

 

Fortunately, he is the right person to choose if you want to fit your gen parts on your case because he know his cases, and he have the right tools to do the job.

 

Hope this thread will save you from much worries if you are planning to order a case from him !

 

Cheers !

 

R.

[hiker01]

Thanks for the post!

[Valty]

Thanks for the post!

 

It's a pleasure, even if I'm very disappointed to have seen this by myself

 

Just a little thing to make it clear - Phong is indeed the right person to go with for a big Daytona project. But you have to make sure he will deliver you a good case.

 

All the Phong cases are not the same. Some are great and with the good specs, some are bullshit.

[cc33]

Most of his daytona cases are tapped wrong

"So from now, I will send him case tube, crystal, and pushers (if it's a Daytona case) to make sure all is working right. I strongly encourage you to do the same, until he decide to stop shipping cases what are not at the Rolex specs."

That's the key, if you send gen parts and have him install them then he will tap them properly to begin with, he uses the wrong tap because that's what's needed to install his aftermarket pushers. As for the lugholes that's ridiculous, if I had that problem I would ask for a new proper one, he will make things right, even if it takes a while.

[freddy333]

Unfortunately, I have to 2nd Valty's general warnings. Although I have never purchased his Daytona cases, I have had similar problems with some of Phong's other components. It may be that his quality has declined recently since I based 1 of my purchases on a beautiful 5514 case that Ubi had sourced from Phong (to be fair, Ubi's beautiful case was actually a replacement that Phong sent him after the initial case was found to differ from the case on Phong's website - unfortunately, my experience has not gone as well). In my case, Phong has been willing to make things right (albeit after some haggling), but, after more than 2 years & repeated returns, I have yet to receive anything that matches the pics/descriptions that were displayed at the time I placed the order or that betters the average rep. Not good.

So, as much as I hate to say it, this seller should be treated with caution. To be charging the inflated prices he charges for standard rep-quality wares is outrageous. At least in my book. If you are considering buying something from Phong, be aware that you are throwing the dice.

[phillycheez]

Damn.. I just emailed for a price quote on a 1655 case. I don't think I want to deal no more.

Will someone pleeeeeease make a decent 1655 case. I really don't feel like spending a $1k on a phong.

[eVojlib]

Mabye I got lucky.... When building my last 1675 I had no issues fitting multiple gen parts on the watch, he was very easy to work with and even gave me a better deal on the case that orig quoted.

 

But this is good to know as I considered few other cases for future builds.

[Valty]

Just checked the original P302 pushers with my 2nd Daytona case - a 6240.

 

I'm not watchmaker, but it seems it do not screw properly too. So I bet I have the same problem on my 2 cases.

 

And I hate the idea I have to re-send him the case over the seas... 

 

Is it so f**king difficult to make aftermarket pushers with the right size ? This makes me mad !

[Valty]

As for the lugholes that's ridiculous, if I had that problem I would ask for a new proper one, he will make things right, even if it takes a while.

 

Do you know the funny fact ? The 271 end links are working with my lug holes like a charm...

 

Unfortunately, these are ruinous 

[freddy333]

DW cases have similar issues, but at least DW sells his cases for a more realistic price. 1 of my early 62xx Daytona construction threads detailed how I dealt with ill-fitting pushers on a DW case (had to re-tap holes & fit larger pushers). When newbies ask why the gen makers charge so much, QC, which leads to production consistency, is 1 of the primary reasons.

[ghost]

If i could, i'd go into the business of churning out these cases!. Purely cases! Pretty sure there'll be a niche market for it. But the rollie boys will lynch me in no time at all

[phillycheez]

If i could, i'd go into the business of churning out these cases!. Purely cases! Pretty sure there'll be a niche market for it. But the rollie boys will lynch me in no time at all

Please do.

[SSTEEL]

Thanks for the heads up on these issues, as you say, you found out the hard way, but at the same time, shared your experiences here with us all, which in turn helps, and saves us time from making the same mistakes, so thanks again.  It's all a learning curve in this hobby, and helping each other in their quest to build their perfect watch is all part of the fun too.

[LeSentier]

Gents, may I ask you for the reference # of the daytonay you are refering to? I am going to finish my 16520 project and want to know if this issues with the 16520 case are the same as discribed? Freddy was kind and told me which case to go for - are your fitting issues concerning the vintage 62xx daytonas or the 16520?

Thanks in advance

J

[denimhead]

I've had exactly the same experience regarding Phongs cases over the years. In particular the 1655 case is totally off in terms of dims and spec. Its just a Sub case in disguise in my humble opinion. His bezel is also too small on this particular model. Iv'e ended going with an ingod one and re- worked the case for a third of the price.

[Valty]

Gents, may I ask you for the reference # of the daytonay you are refering to? I am going to finish my 16520 project and want to know if this issues with the 16520 case are the same as discribed? Freddy was kind and told me which case to go for - are your fitting issues concerning the vintage 62xx daytonas or the 16520?

Thanks in advance

J

 

I am referring to the manual Daytona's 62xx,

 

The lug holes problems are a common to the majority of the Phong cases I think. I had some problems to fit the 585 end links to my 1665 case for example.

 

About the pushers, I don't know because I used a gen 16520 case to avoid any problems. You should try to screw your pushers and try your end links asap, that's my best advise.

[automatico]

Valty:

"Pushers holes are NOT at the Rolex specs. It is ~2,4mm instead of 2,5mm. Means, it works fine with the Phong aftermarket pushers, but you CANNOT fit gen pushers if you want to. Threads are very very thin, and my WM strongly discouraged me to retap / refill the pushers holes."

 

"Lugs holes are NOT at the good position at all. I've seen that more that one time, and it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to fit the correct end links, a.k.a. the 571. The most stupid thing is you are forced to use DateJust 557 end links if you want to stay "cheap" but gen. What a shame.

　

And it seems it's happening with the majority of the Phong cases I have seen so far.

　

Sometimes, the hole for the case tube is not at the Rolex specs. Hopefully, it didn't happen to me, but this is a real, real, real shame considering the price he is asking for his cases.

　

Fortunately, he is the right person to choose if you want to fit your gen parts on your case because he know his cases, and he have the right tools to do the job.

　

　

 

This looks to me like someone passing off $50 cases for $1000 after a few minutes of 'detailing'. It seems there is a LOT of this going around.

 

F333:

"So, as much as I hate to say it, this seller should be treated with caution. To be charging the inflated prices he charges for standard rep-quality wares is outrageous. At least in my book. If you are considering buying something from Phong, be aware that you are throwing the dice."

　

 

"DW cases have similar issues, but at least DW sells his cases for a more realistic price."

 

I am going to stay away from Daytona projects but I have used a few DW 5513/1680 cases and with all things considered, they are a bargain in today's price inflated market...if you have a lathe etc. I lit him up when I got the first case but since Clark bezel kits came out, DW cases can be made to work Ok and genuine movements will fit the cases I have.

　

　

　

 

pc:

"Damn.. I just emailed for a price quote on a 1655 case. I don't think I want to deal no more."

 

denimhead:

"I've had exactly the same experience regarding Phongs cases over the years. In particular the 1655 case is totally off in terms of dims and spec. Its just a Sub case in disguise in my humble opinion."

 

Seems there is a lot of this going around.

I have a Phong 1655 case that I got from another member and it is fine but I would not buy anything after reading all the complaints.

 

Valty:

And even bad watchmakers are claiming they are good... I'll make a thread about this one day."

 

      A lot of this around too.

 

   

 

 

  

[janeto72]

i have handled several phong cases for the daytona vintage builds..e.g. 6263 and 6265.The best cases I have seen have been for the later versions...late 70's early 80's thin cases.Each case I saw was a little different from the other....but specs/case dimensions were within the Rolex specs I had on hand.The biggest challanges of all the cases  were the placement of the lug holes and the tapping for pushers....I removed a little material from the curvature of the case and my gen 571 endlinks fit perfectly.My gen pushers and gen tube did not fit the Phong case, so "The Zigmeister" retapped the case and installed the gen pushers and tube.Now i have a perfect 6265 build.The only parts that are not gen on my build are the Phong midcase and the 726 Valjoux movement...I woud pay the price for a Phong 6263 case set again...as with a lttle massaging the case will fit genuine parts all day long.

[Valty]

Little teaser for my new grail...

 

[janeto72]

Little teaser for my new grail...

 

i hate you..lol!!stop teasing us know...

[danielv2000]

Looks nice... Can't wait to see more.

[Valty]

i hate you..lol!!stop teasing us know...

 

 new topic posted... enjoy

[CptTripps]

I'm torn on this. I bought a case set from him last week, and while I was initially happy with it, the more I read, the more I want to check it against gen specs. It has a 1570 inside, so I know THAT part works, but the rotor on the movement he helped me source is making a funny noise. (Maybe it just needs oiled?)

 

I dono...I was happy, but I think now that I'm learning more, I'm not as happy as I was.

[Valty]

I'm torn on this. I bought a case set from him last week, and while I was initially happy with it, the more I read, the more I want to check it against gen specs. It has a 1570 inside, so I know THAT part works, but the rotor on the movement he helped me source is making a funny noise. (Maybe it just needs oiled?)

I dono...I was happy, but I think now that I'm learning more, I'm not as happy as I was.

The rotor of your movement is independent of the case, maybe it needs a little cleaning :-)

If a gen tube and your end links fits your case, there is not much worry to have ;-)

To he clear, Phong case is the best you can have, but you have to be careful with the fitting of gen parts, especially with a Daytona

[CptTripps]

The rotor of your movement is independent of the case, maybe it needs a little cleaning :-)

 

I completely understand. I just need to celan/oil it maybe. (I was more upset that it was like this after he helped me source it, and built the watch...last week