The New 7750

[Devedander]

I think that pretty much sums it up...

[crystalcranium]

Oh yea, it just figures... I only have a few minutes a day for the forum, and the interesting debates start up...

All I have time to add is my two cents (for whatever it's worth)

This discussion (to service or not) can apply to all watches, gen's alike...even if you bought a Speedmaster new or used, your eventually going to have to get it serviced, so the question is more of "when" to service vs "will I service it".

I have stopped to service, or refuse to service a number of movements. Why? Well because it was a waste of the customer's money...

Of the dozens of 7750's I have serviced, I only know of one failure so far... If I did not think it was worth servicing, honestly, I would not be offering the service. Think of my warranty, why would I want to have all these watches sent back to me for warranty service - if I knew that servicing was a waste of time and money- do I really want to spend all my time and money on warranty work??? Would you??

Sorry, got to go, hope the discussion continues...

RG

Like I said, If they were flawed movements....he wouldn't work on them and warranty them.

[tvt]

>>>Those rules are for all 7750's Swiss or Asian....

Just goes to prove that chronographs, are not for everyone...<<<

First of all where the hell did you hear that? That is DEAD WRONG. I won about 6 genuine Swis 7750 based watches and any single one of them can have the date set at any given time. there are no rules I have to follow, no silly parameters to work within. Whoever told you that the genuien acts this way is either mis-informed or not telling you the truth for some reason. the two movements also FEEL totally different from each other. While the gen is very smooth and silky in feel the Asain is course at best. I love cronographs but I also love fucntioning movements.

Concerning everything else I STILL don't think you "get" what I am saying. OF COURSE any automatic watch will need servicing, I would hope that needs to go without saying. But it is damn near ridiculous to think that a BRAND NEW watch direct from the facotry should be in need of service. The fact that people seem willing to accept this as though it was somehow OK is CRAZY. If a watch needs to be serviced every 5 years or so then fine. Some people may even argue that if a fake craps out in 5 - 8 years that they will just write it off as a throw away after many years of use... I'm OK with that as well. But to say that you buy a watch and need to have it serviced right away is somehow normal or OK, well that's just nuts in my opinion.

I say again, the ASIAN 7750 has more problems than ALL other movements found in decent quality fakes COMBINED and then multiplied by 10. If that is acceptable to you then great, but it is NOT a matter of not understanding chronographs or some such nonesense, rather it is a case of poorly assembled or designed or what have you movements. Since we have no control over how well any individual movement is assembled it makes no difference if it is the assembly or the design that causes the problem, the fact is that a problem is there.

So let me re-phrase my answer to the question:

Q: Is the new Asian 7750 a good movement?

A: No, unless you spend $200 to have it serviced and follow some crazy set of rules about not setting the date during half of the day and other limitations. If fit and finish do not matter to you and you are a risk taker then it MIGHT work for you. Good luck.

[Richard Tracy]

......I think this is going in circles....

If a word from our resident master watchsmith won't do it,.. then...

as Mr. Jetson would say..."Get me off of this crazy thing !" ..

[flavor flav]

11 28k 7750's so far i've owned. 1 manual wind function froze up but ran perfect. all other 10 no problems at all.

[Pugwash]

First of all where the hell did you hear that? That is DEAD WRONG. I won about 6 genuine Swis 7750 based watches and any single one of them can have the date set at any given time.

"Important: Do not set the date* and/or the day* between 10 pm and

2 am (the movement is in the process of changing the date at these

times)." - Mido

"It is recommended not to change the date between 10 PM and 2 AM." - Doxa

"Do not change the date between the hours of 10pm and 2am." - Zodiac

Two minutes on Google got me those. All 7750s, all real Swiss gens.

[pollux1]

"Important: Do not set the date* and/or the day* between 10 pm and

2 am (the movement is in the process of changing the date at these

times)." - Mido

"It is recommended not to change the date between 10 PM and 2 AM." - Doxa

"Do not change the date between the hours of 10pm and 2am." - Zodiac

Two minutes on Google got me those. All 7750s, all real Swiss gens.

Hey! even a noob like me knew that, just from reading The Zigmeister's posts

[crystalcranium]

......I think this is going in circles....

If a word from our resident master watchsmith won't do it,.. then...

as Mr. Jetson would say..."Get me off of this crazy thing !" ..

Sounds like TVT is dug in and bunkered. That's fine. It does get kinda silly after a while when individuals with intransient views begin wrestling like it's going to solve something. I bought a Hyundai in 1988 that was junk and no one has been able to convince me 20 years later that the company has put an adequete emphasis on quality and now makes dependable vehicles. Some scars are very deep.

[Pugwash]

Sounds like TVT is dug in and bunkered. That's fine.

Yup, no amount of sense and proof will change his faith.

[retep]

Sounds like TVT is dug in and bunkered.

And he sounds a bit agitated too.

[Watchmeister]

A real sense of deja vu here. Everyone will develop their own opinion based on experience. In my case, I have found non-chrono 7750's to be fairly solid. I have had bad luck with the older version chronos (although the first problem is always that the second hand or sub-dial hands are not properly attached so they need to be glued on). On the first version 3 out of 4 needed work in very short order. On the later version I have not had any problem. And I now subscribe to the theory of let these movements run until they die. When they die I start looking for a Swiss movement to replace it.

[JBoy]

I would like to chime in here (as I'm the one that had the most to say on the other thread regarding servicing a 7750).

It is MY understanding from my back and forth with The Zigmeister - that the Asian7750 is a flawed movement. But only in that they seem to come either dirty or dry from the factory.

He says that if you fully service it - it should run for years and years with no problems.

My understanding is - that if you DON'T have it serviced early on, then it becomes a ticking bomb waiting to fail.

Not to stir things up - but I spoke with a local watchmaker who has also worked on many of these movements and he told me in no uncertain terms to NOT service it until it breaks down) or at least wait a year.

But it sounds ike it may not LAST a year before it breaks.

So - I've decided to wait a few months (I have a new 7750 on the way) and see how it runds. See if I like the watch - and then send it in for a service.

My local guys CLAIMS that he offers the same type of service as The Zigmeister - taking the movement apart, cleaning and oiling it and putting it back together. But he only charges about $65 - and has no problem working on a replica.

Until I actually use his services on this I cannot comment on the quality - but I know of other people that have sent him many watches - all with great results.

Not sure if this helps clarify anything - but there you go.

JB

[JBoy]

I would like to chime in here (as I'm the one that had the most to say on the other thread regarding servicing a 7750).

It is MY understanding from my back and forth with The Zigmeister - that the Asian7750 is a flawed movement. But only in that they seem to come either dirty or dry from the factory.

He says that if you fully service it - it should run for years and years with no problems.

My understanding is - that if you DON'T have it serviced early on, then it becomes a ticking bomb waiting to fail.

Not to stir things up - but I spoke with a local watchmaker who has also worked on many of these movements and he told me in no uncertain terms to NOT service it until it breaks down) or at least wait a year.

But it sounds ike it may not LAST a year before it breaks.

So - I've decided to wait a few months (I have a new 7750 on the way) and see how it runds. See if I like the watch - and then send it in for a service.

My local guys CLAIMS that he offers the same type of service as The Zigmeister - taking the movement apart, cleaning and oiling it and putting it back together. But he only charges about $65 - and has no problem working on a replica.

Until I actually use his services on this I cannot comment on the quality - but I know of other people that have sent him many watches - all with great results.

Not sure if this helps clarify anything - but there you go.

JB

[tvt]

I'm not agitated in the slightes and I don't mean to come off as being unwilling to change my mind or anything like that. It's just that I know what my experiences have been and I know that I hear MANY other people complaining about this specific movement. So from my experiences I just cannot see how I could call the Asian 7750 a good movement, because for me it simply is not.

The Zigmeister knows what he is talking about and I totally trust what he says, but that does not change my personal experiences.

Finally, regarding the genuine Swiss movement. I trust that everything you posted is accurate and legit and all of that but like I said, I own several of them and I have never heard that nor have I ever had any problems with them at all. In fact after reading what you posted I pulled one out and intentionally set the date during the prohibited period and it set just fine, 100% no problems.

I agree that this thread has gone in circles and my responses have been repetative but at some point you have to go by personal (and repeat) experiences and put more weight on that than what others (even people in the know) tell you.

[insane]

Here's an update on my situation. It seems that Chinese customs have seized both the SMP Chrono and the Tag Link sent on different dates. So I contacted Joshua to see if we could resolve this, since it was in fact he who wanted me to send them back to him.

After a few mails back and forth, I am now receiving a new SMP Chrono and Link by Fedex. I will be paying for the shipping charge.

Just underlines the motto of many other people on this board: "First choose your dealer, then your watch". It would be great to even get a response from Paul if I had purchased these watches from him. Had one small problem with a bracelet a while back, but he wouldn't even reply to my mails.

Joshua has replied to every mail I have sent the last few days, and he has done this a few minutes after they have been sent.

Josh, you have a customer for life (or at least as long as I am into reps )

[Devedander]

For the record I have learned that it's always best to ask all these kinds of questions pre purchase to know what you are getting into including will the seller take responsibility if the item is seized on return trip.

[bokkiebeh]

I don't understand why these Asian 7750 are more expensive than the regular eta's.

I will defenately stay of the chrono watches, just be sure I have a good product.

They have some really nice ones and it's hard not to buy them, but I stay desciplined

[phaedo]

Given it is acknowledged the Asian movement should be serviced immediately, it should be thought of as a 'partially finished' piece and that the total cost will be what you pay plus the cost of service. And remember paying $500 including service for a rep of something that may retail for $10,000 is still quite cheap.

Also something to be thought about is there may be rules to follow with regards to setting the date, but that only needs doing once every 2 months as long as it stays running all the time anyway.

Will be getting my new one serviced soon, once I can find a local dealer that will do it

[tvt]

>>>And remember paying $500 including service for a rep of something that may retail for $10,000 is still quite cheap. <<<

That is incorrect, flawed and nonsensical thinking.

You must look at these watches for what they are (good or bad) based on thier own merits. It has absolutley NOTHING to do with what the genuine costs.

A copy of a $10,000 watch is in no way any better than a copy of a $1,500 watch, the cost of the genuine simply does not playa factor. In fact some of the very best fakes (in fact it would seem MOST of them) are copies of less expensive gens (Omegas, basic PAMs, etc.) not rare or expensive originals.

You go down a bad road if you start justifying the cost of a fake based on the cost of the genuine. They are NOT the same thing, they are not built to anywhere near the same levels of quality, the movements (in most cases and especially with the Asian 7750) do not compare.

Buy a fake based on it and it alone. Is it a good watch? Does it work well? Does it look like the genuine it is copying? All of that is great, but if you start saying "A genuine is 10 grand and the fake is only $500 so it is a good deal!" you are missing the point.

If I take a honda and stick a porsche logo on it I am not getting a good deal on a porsche and in fact I may simply be overpaying for a Honda.

[MK08]

I'm with TVT here. I've had 3 Asian 7750 die within months. Sure, the can be serviced, but then I'm spending $600 for service on top of $600 for the watches. That $1200 buys me a very nice, albeit used, Omega Speedy, a SMP, a nice new Tag, an inexpensive Breitling. All of them work out of the box. And if they don't, someone backs them up, no questions asked for a couple of years.

Think of it this way...

You buy something that is brand new(car, guitar, bike are the three I'm familiar with. Pick something). In order to use said "new" thing reliably, you have to spend up to 2/3 of the original price of the thing on service. Think about it, a rep with an Asian 7750 costs about 300, to get it serviced another 150 to 200. You wouldn't spend that on your new car, new bike, new guitar...you name it. It seems foolish.

Hey Bro I think your line of reasoning is flawed. Many of these are replicas of watches most of us can just dream about owning, so to have an exact 1:1 copy of the real thing (for the newer reps like the HBB) is really a dream come true and a real bargin, even if you have to factor in servicing. In my case I own several Asian 7750's with no problems or complaints, now I know many have had issues (it can be a crapshoot without any QC, but same problem can happen with gens, read any watch board and see all the issues people have with a so called moderate brand like Invicta who sells many crappy watches above the prices we pay for decent quality reps) I still think all in all the reps availible to us are a great value and a way for Joe average to own the watch of his dreams (better than drooling on the display case of your local AD.) Anyway just my 2 cents.

MK08

[tvt]

But simply put you are NOT owning the "watch of your dreams".

You are owning a copy of it of much lower quality. Now that is GREAT. Nothing wrong is sort of pretending to yourself that you have something which otherwise would be out of reach and all of that. I am not trying to debate the general premise of these watches, simply that if you try to compare them to the gens and then say you are getting a great bargain you are just fooling yourself. They are NOT the same thing and because the movements are (in most cases) nowhere near the same they are hardly 1:1 copies (and in fact even removeing the movements from the picture I have yet to see anything REALLY close to a 1:1, maybe the old factory SeaMasters come close).

These are all shades of gray and like everyone else I really enjoy these things and collecting them and the fact that they allow me to have many different styles of watches for cheap and all of that... but I can never compare them to the gens and think I goy some sorrt of steal because I am not comparing Apples to Apples.

Now, on the other hand you CAN compare then directly with a brand such as Invicta because they are more or less the same watches. Same movements, same construction (hell, possibly the same factoires in some cases) and therefore it is an equal comparison.

[geekybiker]

But simply put you are NOT owning the "watch of your dreams".

You are owning a copy of it of much lower quality. Now that is GREAT. Nothing wrong is sort of pretending to yourself that you have something which otherwise would be out of reach and all of that.

Which is exactly why I refuse to buy a watch that I wouldn't buy if the label on the case said something different. IE I like the watch for itself, not for the original it represents. That being said, I dont see ever buying a rolex rep, etc.

Unfortunately most of the designs I like involve chronograph movements so that means dealing with asian 7750 movements and rolling the dice or spending almost double for the ETA version. While the failure of the asian movement may be higher, I doubt its at anywhere near a 40-50% rate.

[hambone]

And he sounds a bit agitated too.

Perhaps a valium and a good nights sleep are in order