van_damme1988 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Dear fellow RWG members, Before I start, I would like to thank all of you who participated in this thread http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/162344-sick-of-tcs-subs and pushed me into purchasing TC Sub. You did a good job I finally placed my order at the end of the august 2013. After numerous considerations about which TC Sub to choose I decided to order classic 16610. At that time Thomas started a new thread on his blog about new KH dials, so my choice was clear. I asked him if he could build for me V5 16610 with KH dial. However he had no idea about turnaround time and said that the wait will be longer compared to usual order. On the other hand the new KH dials were looking so good from the initial pics that I wanted to give it a chance. The wait was on and after nearly four months I finally received a nice small box There were many unpacking/unboxing photoshoots, but I have to honestly confirm, that this packaging is just perfect. Sorry for the pic quality, they were made by a coconut. My first thoughts after unboxing this little piece were WOW. Even if there were crappy lowlight conditions in my room, I could clearly see the stunning level of detail. Only think I could think of at the moment was that the wait was worth it. Overall build quality is just awesome. DWO is perfectly aligned with cyclops, SEL fitment is nice imho, there were no scratches on the bracelet or case, crystal was bearing protective film as well as the caseback, bracelet and clasp. I remember some threads over on RWI where some guys were complaining about some dings, scratches, dust under the crystal, dial tilting to either left or right, misaligned DWO and some other things. None of these happened with my piece and Thomas did a really good job on this one. I have nothing to complain about. My only disappointment came when I tried to install gen insert. Gen insert is a piece of craftsmanship itself if you take into consideration that you need no glue because insert is hold in the bezel thanks to its shape that provides tension that holds it in the bezel. However I could not persuade that small piece of s**t to click in even if I used the edge of the table. Bezel press was needed so I had to ask my local watchsmith to do this one for me. If you are interested how much he wanted for just pressing the insert in, he charged me 25 EUR which is about 30 USD (I hope he dies in a terrible longobongo death). Now let’s go to the details. TC Sub is not a gen, but it is very, very close to it. Dial: KH dial is awesome, but there are few differences compared to gen. Almost everyone knows, that TC Subs are based on V Series case, but with rehaut engravings sanded off the case is closer to Z or Y Series 16610. If you compare gen Z Serial dial to KH dial, you will find the first difference in “1000ft” script as number 1 is different as well as the “ft” spacing, which bring the dial closer to pre-2008 models (according to Submariner Story book). However I did a little research and found out that there are variances in Z Serial dials and most of them look exactly as KH dials. But you can make your own idea: (from top: first three are Z Serial dials, last two is my KH dial. If you wonder why the font is bolder on one pic, Nr. 4 was made with ISO 400, Nr. 5 was made with ISO 100) Swiss Made script looks good itself, but I see that it should be positioned little lower. The two on the top are Z Serial dials; the last one is my KH dial. I would like to point out also the difference in positioning Swiss Made script between the two gens – the first one has more space under the script. From this pic you can also see that Z Serials have LEC crown on 6 and no AR on cyclops. You can also see that minute markers are correct – bolder markers on the left, middle and right and thinner markers under W and A. The difference is not that noticeable, but you can see it. Also there is nothing like “slightly grayish colour” of the minute markers between 5-min markers. They are just thinner. If you have ever seen how a dial is printed, you know, that nobody would care to print it with two different colours. They are all of the same white colour all around the dial. Here is another one: Finally Rolex logo looks the same to me as well as OYSTER PERPETUAL DATE spacing. No problem here. (gen Z Serial on top, TC KH under) So in my opinion KH dial looks with no doubt very gen like and even all those indices are just perfect. Forgot to mention that lume is strong and evenly applied all over the dial, so no problem (and it looks amazing). So all in all maybe the only thing that would make it different from gen lumi dial is position of the Swiss Made script. Also I do not recommend comparing the placement of indices at 6 between LN and LV dials as LV is not only bigger but always placed significantly closer to Swiss Made script (please refer to Submariner Story book). Crown: Crown is OK. No need to write much here. I did also 0 shots of it as I could not get a single satisfactory photo of it. But there is no need to change it. Bezel: Bezel teeth need some wear to be more gen like. New TC Sub bezel is also very stiff and is not very willing to turn. You have to use significant force to make it turn. After 5-10 circles it turns like a charm. But the first turn is pain in the a**. You need also bezel press to install gen insert in it (at least I did, but many other members used just their fingers). Bracelet: Bracelet is one of the things to improve. With no doubt V4 is currently the best one available on the rep market, but … There I thing I like, and also few that need to be improved. I like V4 clasp, as the coronet is nice, nice stamping on the blades and also the diver extension looks great. The brushed finish could be slightly better imho. SEL need some work, shave it a bit. And also 93250 number on the back of it may be missing. I understand that maybe Chinese are not willing to stamp it, but it surely is one of the things that make it easy tell from the gen. Everything other is spot on. There are so many details like diver extension circle marking on the bracelet link, clasp holes on the side of it, nicely brushed caseback, clasp blades are the work of art itself, TC 2824 movement with H4 cannon pinion that makes the gap between the hands more gen like, Cyclops magnification, DWO print, dial print quality, so many details. You have to see it in person to know what I am talking about. It is few days since I have it and I am getting still blown away by these little things. I had no problem with movement as well and it is running at +1 sec per day (real average rate after 5 day testing – dancing, jumping, running, oils, sweat and watter ). Good boy. On the last word, for those, who are picky about crown guards. There are so many differences between them, that nobody can tell if it is gen or not. All of them are 16610 and there are many differences not only between M, V, Z and Y case but also between the same Serial cases. Whatever you think the look OK to me. But feel free to discuss this and maybe we will find out something new (from top: 1-3 are Z Serials, 4-5 are M Serials, 6 is Y Serial, 7 is V Serial and 8 is TC reviewed here) That is all folks. TC is king. Bracelet needs some work. And I hope you enjoyed this little review and maybe it will help somebody. And big thanks goes to TC for this wonderful piece. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbane883 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Fantastic review. Thank you for the effort. Enjoy the watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacsah1 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Nice work bro!Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indywatchguy Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Very nice review thanks! TC is the true go to classic Rolex guy! I own two.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyyammine Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Great review. Thanks for all the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Great job!! :notworthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 AWESOME PIECE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaresma7 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Looks really good, thanks for your review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Top effort. Well done & thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Superbly constructed, detailed review my friend! Thanks for taking the time to put it together to share with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceocorona Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 One of the best TC reviews out there. Thanks for taking the time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max72 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thank you for the review I love the last picture LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thank you for the reviewI love the last picture LMAOI just got it after about 5 mins of looking at the watch for something funny about it, then when I zoomed out I figured it out, lol!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van_damme1988 Posted January 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Thank you guys for all the recommendations and nice words. You are all welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapman57 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Thats a great review, thanks for sharing. Some highlights for me. ?....... The detailed pics of the dial fonts clearly illustrate the many differences in font styles and spacing even across the same gen series! Look at the different M fonts in the three Swiss Made pics alone? The same can be seen in several other characters in the main dial text. I am really not clear why the kh dial is thought to be the best TC dial, as it has as many differences, as the earlier TC dial and to the naked eye on the wrist none can really be seen? Some early TC dial batches had QC issues, but a properly QC'd dial is also superb. I completed a detailed review of my gen PJ coded 2008 bracelet, against my TC V3/V4 PJ bracelet and it really is very very close in detail, form, feel and finish. Many gen bracelets do not have the 93250 stamped on the back in later series so this is not an issue. Personally I think your crown guard analysis is superb, but what it does also show is why a gen crown upgrade is worthwhile? You can see in the bottom picture it really does make a difference and it eliminates the slipping clutch issue with many TC crown springs. Thanks again for a brilliant insight and all of the above is meant to add some value to your great analysis. I vowed for years that I would never wear a rep modern Rolex sub, but my BK TC franken changed all of that! ENJOY YOURS :-) Edited January 16, 2014 by Mapman57 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van_damme1988 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Many gen bracelets do not have the 93250 stamped on the back in later series so this is not an issue. You are right about this one. I forgot to do my homework, so here is a little update to correct my previous statement. It is known, that no stamping on the first link is common for 93250 bracelets featured on modern models. TRF resources state that post 2007/2008 Subs do not have their 93250 bracelets stamped on the first link. Actually, this seems to be not true. I started my own research over the internet and I narrowed my search to 16610 and 16610LV Subs only, to find out since when they stopped stamping their 93250 bracelets on the first link and moved numbers on the inner side of SEL’s. I came into conclusion, that 93250 bracelets featured on 16610 or 16610LV Subs were stamped on the first link until year 2005 – F Serial. 2004 F Serials are bearing these stampings and even some early 2005 F Serials have stamped bracelet. However they have stopped with this somewhere in the mid 2005 as early F Serials are stamped and later 2005 F Serials are not. D Serials do not have 93250 stamping on the first bracelet link as well as later Z, M or V Serials. 16610LV – 2004 F Serial – stamped 16610 – 2004 F Serial – stamped 16610LV – 2005 F Serial – no stamp 16610 – 2005 F Serial – no stamp 16610LV – 2005 D Serial – no stamp 16610LV – 2005 D Serial – no stamp 16610LV – 2006 D Serial – no stamp 16610LV – 2006 D Serial – no stamp 16610LV – 2006 D Serial – no stamp 16610 – 2007 Z Serial – no stamp 16610 – 2010 V Serial – no stamp So missing 93250 stamping on bracelet is correct for any 16610 or 16610LV Subs issued after 2005, which means it is correct for late F Serials, and all D, M, V and Z Serials. Based on the fact, that TC Subs are based on V Series case, bracelet without 93250 stamping on the first link is correct for this one (or any post-2005 Subs even if rehaut is shaved just like on Z or Y Serial case). Once again thank you for your contribution. I hope that my previous statement is correct now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technit1957 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Well, I'm glad I read this thread. Amazing rep. It is a beautiful watch. Alot closer to gen than I imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6now Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Nice update. You may find it posted here: http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=164222 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Thx for this review. Well researched, great detail and comparison shots. Sure some work in this. Enjoy it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dongerfoo Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Amazing. Great pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Looks great! I notice your TC bracelet has a circular stamp on the inside of one link, mine also. Anyone know why, do gen 93250 bracelets have it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bc1221 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 It's amazing how great the KH dial looks It almost looks better than the gen IMO. The print (esp perpetual) is crisper. I just need to stop bsing and buy a TC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6now Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Question: is there a KH dial with 3135 feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glippy01 Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 It indicates where to press to release the diver's extension. Yes it is per GEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bc1221 Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I don't think KH dials come with 3135 feet but you could always clip them. If I had a 3135 movement though, I'd prob go ahead and get a gen dial... Recently picked up a TC v6 with a v3 bracelet (PJ engraved) and v4 clasp. It's a work of art honestly. Mine suffers from the slightly off center dial but really not noticeable unless you go all OCD on it. Seems OPs is the same way. Put a gen flat 4 insert on mine and had no problems pushing it in to place with my hands. I do need a new tension washer though. The one it came with has creases in it so the bezel will slip on occasion :\ The only flaw on mine is the date doesn't quick flip. It sits off center for around 5 mins before flipping. I'm guessing there isn't enough clearance on the dial. Nothing worth opening it up to fix. TC V6 is by far my fav rep. It looks and feels gen in every possible way. Gen inserts are nice but TCs new inserts look pretty damn good too. The only other mod is recommend is a gen crystal if you can find one. I'm goin with a Clark flat crystal to get rid of the cyclop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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