docthor Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 As some of you know I had a bad experience with buying a Sub-C over at the other RWG. Long story short...the seller had been told by mods to take the watch back but he refused. Now he got baned and I have the "approval" to file a PP dispute. But...there is a risk that I get problems with PP because of the nature of the whole transaction. Is there any way to minimize that risk? Sent from my wooden drums with tupperware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Great doc I see they did get on him after all. last I spoke to them nothing doing. I do not know the laws by you in regard to reps so hard to advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Personally for $500 I'd happily risk my PP account. Easy to get another one with slightly different name and different CC card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpz5142 Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Easy to get another one with slightly different name and different CC card. I thought that if your account was suspended they would be able to also identify your computer used for the account and if you used that same computer to start another account they'd flag that account too... To the OP, can you start a claim stating it as an item not as described, ie broken beyond repair. Be vague about the brand, in the US it's the seller that would get in trouble for selling counterfeit goods. If the seller is silly enough to fess up that it's a rep then it's on him when his account is closed, as a buyer less risky. I would think that the simple act of filling a dispute (no matter if for rep or not) would likely put your account at a higher level of scrutiny for a time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Generally asking: isn´t a 24hr pre-warning of this last bomb-step recommendable? PM "PP dispute authorized by Admin. Will proceed at exactly 16h00 on Thursday 15th May if funds not received by than" From reading seller and buyer may not use their PP account any more. Don´t know how in practical terms it works with "Easy to get another one with slightly different name and different CC card." Any tip welcome. Is this a new banc account with another banc with only the initial for the first name and same last name? Still a lot of hassle involved.... Really don´t know, just interested in comments. Wish You the best resolution Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkq Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Generally asking: isn´t a 24hr pre-warning of this last bomb-step recommendable? PM "PP dispute authorized by Admin. Will proceed at exactly 16h00 on Thursday 15th May if funds not received by than" From reading seller and buyer may not use their PP account any more. Don´t know how in practical terms it works with "Easy to get another one with slightly different name and different CC card." Any tip welcome. Is this a new banc account with another banc with only the initial for the first name and same last name? Still a lot of hassle involved.... Really don´t know, just interested in comments. Wish You the best resolution Doc. With such warning, can the seller withdraw all fund from his PP account, close it and cancel the credit that linked to that account beforehand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero_Dave Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 With such warning, can the seller withdraw all fund from his PP account, close it and cancel the credit that linked to that account beforehand? Not that I would ever do it, but if trouble started for the seller and he was Told to refund the money or send the watch back, then yes, the next thing he could have done would be to remove his funds A.S.A.P. and maybe disconnect his CC info from the account. Until a dispute is filed, PP has no idea of any issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not that I would ever do it, but if trouble started for the seller and he was Told to refund the money or send the watch back, then yes, the next thing he could have done would be to remove his funds A.S.A.P. and maybe disconnect his CC info from the account. Until a dispute is filed, PP has no idea of any issues. Move quickly Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 OK, got it, thanks for the info - no other way than to move quickly now this has been posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Move quickly Doc. +1 mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Change Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 This is a good example on why it's important to use a major credit card as your source of PayPal funds rather than your bank account. Hopefully the OP did just that... Filing a dispute with PayPal may not be favorable, and you could file a dispute with your CC company. 9 times out of 10, the CC dispute will get your funds back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernow Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 This is a good example on why it's important to use a major credit card as your source of PayPal funds rather than your bank account. Hopefully the OP did just that... Filing a dispute with PayPal may not be favorable, and you could file a dispute with your CC company. 9 times out of 10, the CC dispute will get your funds back. +1 I had an issue with an eBay item (non rep watch) and his PayPal account was closed but my cc refunded my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 PayPal use your IP address to see if you are using the same computer or not, but as IP addresses have run out now, the simple act of turning your broadband router (the box that plugs into the phone socket that your ISP sent you) off, wait 30 seconds and turn it back on, and it will grab a different IP address. (some people have static IP addresses that don't change, but if you have one of those you would know the above anyway). I haven't opened a new PP account in years, but I believe you can open one with just a credit card, and you can get pre paid credit cards easily, if you have a middle name it's also easy to use your middle name and surname as opposed to your first name and surname (or the opposite, depending which name you normally use) There's no need to open a new bank account. Also I would say it's very unlikely that PP will side against you, all you need to do is just claim you bought it in good faith beleiving it to be a gen bargain and got conned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docthor Posted May 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 Did it guys... Just filed the dispute this morning and wasn't asked yet to make some "deeper" comments on the nature of the transaction. We'll see how this is going on. Seller has time now till June 4th to react. I checked the laws (asked a friend of mine who is a lawyer) for owning/buying/selling a rep in Germany too. As long as it is only for private reasons it is allowed within Germany and so I guess not that much of a problem for the whole EU. It is prohibited to import a rep to Germany via mail...it is allowed to do it personally (e.g. getting back from a trip to China and having a rep with you). It is prohibited to do business with reps (buying and/or selling to make a profit), but it is allowed to repair/mod them as a watchmaker, even though he makes some profit with it (as long as he is only doing the work and the parts are provided by his customer). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymanmatt Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 The less you say in pp dispute the better. Don't think you can sneak around pp and start a new acct without them connecting the dots. They will, and you will be gone forever. I would not open a dispute unless it was purchased through ebay. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docthor Posted June 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 So...it's done...I tried and failed I didn't mention the real nature of the deal (rep purchase) since I didn't want my account being closed. So I tried my best with describing the real problem and providing descriptions about the condition of the watch. The douche never disagreed and now I know why... According to Paypals policies it's intended that the buyer delivers an experts report about the condition of the good he received when the description is different to the actual condition ... I have a watchmaker within my family (no...only gens ) and asked him how much he's gonna ask for such a report...depending on the time he has to spent and on the value of the watch he charges between 1,5h (~130€) up to 2 days or even more. So in reality that means (even for gen watches!!)...if the seller is able to proof he shipped (no matter what he shipped...buyer has to proof it was faulty/wrong/missing!!), there is no way for a buyer to get back his money, even though he received a wrong/faulty item or there wasn't anything in the package . That's very very disappointing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovo1695 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) What a bummer docthor. I'm sorry this happened to you. I can't remember the last time I saw a PP Dispute bomb authorized by the admins, so I think it goes without saying that you're in the right here. It's so rare to see the Paypal Dispute bomb dropped that I had never even heard of the "expert report" clause. For what little it's worth, props to you for going through all the proper channels with the admins and doing this the right way. That shows you're a classy guy with respect for RWG and the rep world. I wish it had worked out differently; you deserved better. This seller is a total jerk. Banning is too good for him. Edited June 23, 2014 by dovo1695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docthor Posted June 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Lessons learned I'd say. Domi already promised he's going to do the best he can on this POS so that I can sell it with clear conscience to get at least some money back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Crap Doc thought the buyer usually won these things, and yes the bomb was A OK dovo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docthor Posted June 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 well Mike...that's how it happened in the past...Paypal changed their policies or at least their view of it :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 I thought that if your account was suspended they would be able to also identify your computer used for the account and if you used that same computer to start another account they'd flag that account too... Technically not possible: even if he had a static IP address connection, there's no proof that the connection isn't shared between multiple PCs hidden behind a NAT (Network address translation, used by practically all networks that don't want their machines to be ON the internet with a public and reachable IP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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