automatico Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 I believe there needs to be a few rules as to what qualifies as a Frankenstein watch...imho it can not be just a mail order watch with a genuine spring bar, crystal. or bezel insert. Anyone besides me think a Frankenstein relax watch should have a genuine movement or a genuine case at least? For example, a replica with only a genuine dial is not a Frankenstein...it's just a replica with a genuine dial. It needs a genuine case or movement to go with the dial to qualify. As for genuine cases...Frankensteins would need a genuine mid case at least, aftmkt case backs and bezels would be Ok as long as they are true to the original. After all, my guess is that hundreds if not thousands of otherwise 'genuine' watches are floating around with aftmkt case backs and bezels. Btw...something else that gets my goat are watches that have been 'artificially aged' and come out looking awful. It seems many agers try to make their watch look like the worst beater they have ever seen, especially dive watches. Rant off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 According to Rolex, any Rolex with a single non-gen part is a franken (ie., not a genuine Rolex). That is the definition most use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 It seems many agers try to make their watch look like the worst beater they have ever seen, especially dive watches. Rant off. Don't let our friend from the "Great Whate North" hear you say that!!! But, I agree... On the Franken front, I somewhat agree. I try to classify my builds into three categories: 1 - Franken Lites. A rep with just a gen dial or gen dial and gen crown. I don't consider just a crown to be any kind of Franken just a modded rep. 2 - Franken - A gen case, gen dial, and gen crown. 3 - Super or Uber Franken - All gen except movement, in other words indistinguishable from a gen without removing the case-back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Yeah, I agree that there are different levels. I'm not so convinced about mid case though... I've seen some pretty cool Franken 6542s on here that didn't have an original mid case. Does that mean they're not as good? I saw an original mid case on VRM for like $8500. Does that mean that they should have to buy that before their watch can be classed as a Franken? However, if we're talking a simple DJ or something and the person is like "Yeah, it's got gen springbars" then I agree. My line drawn is usually dial, crystal and crown (the three biggest tells in my book). The mid case can always be reshaped, but the dial is usually make or break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 This topic pops up about once every year. I think a franken should have "a preponderance of genuine parts". Particularly those visible while wearing or inspecting the watch. I'm not sure what I would consider a rep with a gen movement, other than a waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Yeah, I'm not too find of using a gen movement unless the dial is super rare and I couldn't bring myself to clip the dial feet. Otherwise, why? Like you said, seems kind of silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted June 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 I used the mid case as an example of a major genuine part, the other being a movement. I do not believe a Yuki, MBK, J&W etc case with a genuine movement is any less a Frankenstein than one with a genuine mid case because the genuine movement qualifies it as a Frankenstein...a genuine case just adds to the value. The answer is... there is no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Yes, this really used to get my goat. To the point where i didn't even bother looking at threads with the franken tag unless it was from the usual suspects ( like automatico). My franken journey always begins with the gen dial, for it is the window to the soul. A watch with merely a gen dial might be considered a franken lite, but a watch without one wouldn't even qualify as one to me. No offence to anyone, it's just my idiosyncrasy. The watch could be rocking a gen movement, and a gen case, but should the dial not be gen, the most obvious flaws would be nagging at me all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 I am with Ghost. I don't even venture down the Franken path without a gen dial - the exception being vintage Rolex if you find that really good dial maker. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live1 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 i class my franken as a franken,its a v3 noob with gen dial gen bezel assembly gen insert gen crystal gen crown gen glidelock gen hands coming soon what do u guys think*franken heavy or franken light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live1 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 i dont class someone's tc with a gen insert and crystal as a franken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 As others have said, gen dial & movement is a must. However, for a vintage Rolex like a Newman, Comex or Double-Red, a high-quality aftermarket dial like MQ would do. It's funny that a few have mentionned a genuine mid-case - that's normally the one part that is not gen in many Franken builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live1 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 my franken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Are you fellas saying that the most beautiful franken build across any of the forums, which is owned by our own Nanuq, would not pass the muster? His 6538 is darned near a gen in every way and yet your arbitrary rules would DQ it because it has an aftermarket case (built to gen spec), rep dial and ETA movement. That's the nicest franken I have ever seen and it is not a "lite" in any stretch of the imagination. If I build a vintage automobile from parts and I use both original, period OEM parts as well as aftermarket parts built to gen specs, I would consider that a vintage XYZ car. I could not show it in a car show where it had to be all original, and I could not sell it without full disclosure of all the components, but it doesn't make it any less of a vintage car. I do agree that slapping a crown on a fully assembled out of box watch is just a mod. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I agree that just swapping a crown or using gen springbars isn't a Franken, but if the cost of the parts makes it unfeasible I don't see why that makes it not a Franken. Isn't that the cause for reps anyway - making a watch appear to be one thing at a significantly reduced cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacher62 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 HHHhhhhhhmmmmmm...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy4010 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I have seen many over at other forums say franken with just a insert and crown....And call live1 watch Uber franken...LOL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 If Frankenstein (the original) was made with genuine human body parts than it stands to reason that a Franken watch should have a fair number of genuine parts. Just saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live1 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 if 90% of the build is gen its franken.if its indistinguishable from gen its franken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rower Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Is this considered franken? Rolex 16800 with gen dial, gen hands, gen insert, BK date wheel overlay, ST case, re-shaped, gen specs, TC bezel assembly, gen crystal no LEC, gen crown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yeah, same. If it doesn't have a gen movement that doesn't make it not a Franken. The most expensive parts (the case and the movement are the only non gen parts, basically)... Pretty much Franken to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 At the end of the day everyone will have different definitions of Frankens. The most important thing is that when contemplating a purchase or trade ignore that word in the description. With an accurate build sheet from the seller you can make your own assessment as to what something is worth - irrespective of what you call it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 I totally agree with watchmeister. Before I shell out serious bucks for a "Franken" build, I want a complete detailed build sheet. From that, I can decide if it is really a Franken or not. I don't find the term as abused on this forum as it is on some of the others. I cringe when I see a watch listed as a "Franken", and the only gen part is a crystal or crown. That my friends does not a Franken make!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6now Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 For me, if I have a gen case and movement, I will go all the way and make it genstein. Otherwise, a gen dial + other gen parts is a good enough term for me to be called a franken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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