lello Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Hi guys, I know several members here posses at least an authentic watch, so perhaps somebody of you could help me in this. I have a couple of genuine watches, but none of the very famous ones. I have the intention to purchase a genuine Pam. I'm not sure if buying a preowned one, or if go for a brand new. And I'm also concerned if buying it overseas, as right now it would be a much better deal for us Europeans, to buy in the US. I'm also wondering if these watches, immediately loose value, (as it happens with cars), or if they could keep their value, especially if you buy a limited edition... Any tips would be greatly appreciated, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I went for the brand new.. If I wanted to spend my money big I also wanted the full package... AD licking my ass, a full year or two for guarantee etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 here is my experience. I got a new 111H from the AD for 3,900 plus 200 tax. About two months later my wife wanted to open her own business so I put it up for sale. First at 3,300 then 3, 200 then, 3,100 which it finally sold for. Keep in mind I also had to pay 100 for shipping since it was insured. So, I ended up paying around 1,000 to wear it for two months. I know most of it was my fault and poor timing, but if you watch the pams, you can find almost new 111's going for right around 3,100. The very cool thing is that if you buy at this price, you can wear it a while and sell almost at the same price. I would go on the paneraisti sites, find someone with a good rep and buy used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cls Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I bought my IWC from TZ (www.timezone.com.) Go into the good guys pages to research the gray market dealers. You can get a new Panerai for about 20% off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 You are buying the only watch where it is difficult to buy below list when new. It is fairly humorous that you can get better discounts on better established brands with unique movements. On PAM's buy pre-owned. And it looks to me like they are getting only cheaper as regards to the basic models. You don't get a warranty but they are fairly simple watches to repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Watches are like cars... The minute you walk out of the boutique with it strapped to your wrist, the watch has already depreciated 30%. So, with that said... Buy pre-owned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I bought my 24H grey market from a jeweler in Ca. so saved a bit. If I had to do it over again I'd get one preowned. It's not like buying a car... watches all smell the same and you can't tell how many miles they've been driven if taken care of. Buy used and make damn sure it's Gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender110 Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 depends on which pam you have in mind... also here in the states internet transactions rarely get taxed.. so it pays for me to get a breitling pam rollie from a well established cyberspace dealer like: authenticwatches to the local AD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Hi guys, I have the intention to purchase a genuine Pam. Any tips would be greatly appreciated, thank you. I have purchased many GEN PAms over the years - and never bought from an AD. Mostly because I was living in Canada and the prices were outrageous. I did once purchase from the Panerai Boutique in Hong Kong - and saved a fortune in taxes when I had it shipped to a friend in the US. Anyway - buy used. Unless you plan to purchase many of these watches and want to forma relationship with your AD. SOME Panerais will increase in value - but very few of the new ones. It's mostly the ones that have been around already for a while. And mostly special editions. Anything Pre-V or Pre-A or even some A and B series. Recent Special Editions are a waste of time. I think the only watch in the last few years that has gone up in value is the 127. You won't lose a lot in value if you buy used (or even NEW - just not from an AD). And buy from the USA - good value for money right now. PM me if you need any advice on who to buy from or have any questions. I used to moderate on a Panerai board so know most of the good sellers, etc. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I would never buy a new Panerai, especially an easily obtainable base model such as a 111 or 005. They can be found in near mint condition regularly at Paneristi and TZ from reputable sellers. I would certainly buy a more limited edition NOS if it became available from a dealer. Those are few and far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Hilts Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I have a 5512 Sub from 1961, which is two years older than I am, so, yeah, I bought it used. It's now worth more than three times what I paid for it. At various times, I've also owned a Cartier Tank Francaise (both medium and large versions), an Omega GMT and a couple of other high-enders. I've bought them all used. If you're patient and know where to look, the deals are out there. Just be smart and be careful and you'll save yourself a lot of coin in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingrick Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I am saving up to buy a second hand discontinued PAM118 tobacco dial. I have a rep PAM118 that has been, supedlume, cannon pin fix, plap crown, 036 crown guard soon to be installed, with Dirk PreV strap... but it still does not come close to the real thing... I think a gen PAM 118 is a good buy, the tobacco dials are getting scarcer and scarcer, so I think it will increase value over time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epanoui Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Well considering all the watches I want are either limited editions or out of production, I guess I'd have to buy used. But of course I would always buy new if I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I am saving up to buy a second hand discontinued PAM118 tobacco dial. I think a gen PAM 118 is a good buy, the tobacco dials are getting scarcer and scarcer, so I think it will increase value over time... I don't think it will increase greatly in value. There were a fair number made. But I also don't think you'll lose money in the deal. Just make sure to get all the boxes and papers and accessories and keep them safe. Buy the watch becasue you like it and want to wear it - not because you want to make money off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingrick Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Agreed, I want the watch because the 118 is my favourite watch a this moment and has been for the last 2 years. I have had the PAM118 rep for almost 2 years now and feel that if if I had the gen, it would probable keep it with me for a lifetime. If I am fortunate enough to have a son in the future, I think its a watch that is worthy of passing it on to my son... I believe the 118 shall be one of the classic PAM's in about 10 to 15 years. I also think its a better buy/investment wis then a 111 or 112. On the Paneristi there are more 118 WTB's the FS's, Paneristi's willing to pay more the 5.5K for a 118 and still having not succeeding in on getting there hands on one.. I don't think it will increase greatly in value. There were a fair number made. But I also don't think you'll lose money in the deal. Just make sure to get all the boxes and papers and accessories and keep them safe. Buy the watch becasue you like it and want to wear it - not because you want to make money off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted December 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Thank you very much my friends. Your tips and opinions are very useful to me and give me a more clear idea of wht to do now. I saw a couple of interesting Pams on internet US shops, very reputated I think. The only reason to buy a watch in the boutique here in Florence, is to get a Pam 228, only 100 pieces made in end of 2005 and available in florence shop only. Would you believe a limited edition of just 100, could mean it would loose less value? If not, I will go for the preowned on the internet. Are you sure if I buy in US, I won't have to pay custom tax when it gets here to Italy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) Are you sure if I buy in US, I won't have to pay custom tax when it gets here to Italy? Yes - you will have pay taxes and/or duty. BUT - how much will depend on who ships it and how they declare it. The lower the declared value - the less taxes you will pay. No matter how you do it - you will save a lot of money by ordering from the US. Check out the for sale ads on Paneristi.com for your best shot at finding what you want at the best price. Edited December 12, 2006 by JBoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 It is true that the value of a watch will PLUMMET the second you buy it. However it is also true that MANY if not MOST peopel on the net selling used watches are trying to scam you. Fakes, frankenwatches etc. So whiel it makes sense finicailly I would be very warry about buying a gen from the used market unless you REALLYknow who you are buying from. I am not suggesting that you would not know it was fake AFTER you got it, but at that point it may just be too late. So because of that I buy gens from authorized dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Watches are like cars... The minute you walk out of the boutique with it strapped to your wrist, the watch has already depreciated 30%. So, with that said... Buy pre-owned. Agree. Used is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 It is true that the value of a watch will PLUMMET the second you buy it. However it is also true that MANY if not MOST peopel on the net selling used watches are trying to scam you. Fakes, frankenwatches etc. So whiel it makes sense finicailly I would be very warry about buying a gen from the used market unless you REALLYknow who you are buying from. I am not suggesting that you would not know it was fake AFTER you got it, but at that point it may just be too late. So because of that I buy gens from authorized dealers. Hmnnn.... Well - the value of Panerais does not plummet as quickly as some other brands of watches - especially if you don't pay full retail. I have bought and sold many Panerais - and none of them dropped in value from what I originally paid. Some even increased in value. Especially as Panerai rasie their prices every year - it means the same watch you bought just a few months ago is now selling for MORE on the retail market - and therefore it helps drive up the used prices as well. Finally - just follow a few simple guidelines when buying used and you should be OK: buy the seller (meaning buy from someone with a good reputation) and ask for references (preferably post a reference check on one of the Panerai boards) and make sure you get some references from well-known people. Plus - we're all on a replica board - you would think we should be able to stop a fake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Damn dollar...you guys and your euros should be cleaning up right now. I know I would. My proverbial $.02. First rollie was at the AD complete with ass lickin' and all that booty smoochin...was it necesary...did I need it? Is it worth it? Not really... The first pannie was bought new from a grey marker dealer almost 3 years ago and I hate to say this but I could prolly get back MORE than I paid for it....in my opinion--a real score! The next pannie was bought at the AD but I had worked up quite a rapport with the local guy as they have 3 stores here and it was their 113 (white dial) that in their opinions--wasn't going to move--so between phone calls and lots of visits, i was able to get it below list and again, I will prolly get to sell it for MORE than what was paid... So, to sum it all up...you don't necessarily need the AD "experience"...when i look back to what i paid on my rollie and the actual wholesale cost--I wanna throw up...the stealer er pardon me--the dealer makes a LOT of money on all of these watches. ...go grey market...the movements on these pannies are just redecorated basic Unitas/ETA movements that any watchmaker can repair for you should you need some service. do some research on the pannie boards and tz....i spent about 4 months of research there before committing to my seller. cheers funny thing...the gens are all collecting dust again as l am lovin this 188 with the 7753 movement....okay, shutnup.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltic Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I bought my Speedmaster from an AD. I want a warranty if I'm going to spend £1k+ on a watch!!! The watch was bought for a very special reason and isn't going to be sold therefore depreciation is not an issue. However that didn't stop me negotiating a 20% discount..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasng Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I go used all the time. Buying new from a dealer here is way too expensive, and at best you would only get 50% of what you paid back, as taxes are very high here. An Offshore after discount costs almost $20,000 US, while I would pay about $11,000 for a good preowned one. I buy used always also because I can flip them quickly without loss, I can wear them for a little bit, and lose essentially nothing (except shipping) and maybe a small difference in exchange rate. Otherwise, I'm never buying new again, unless it's 2% more than a used one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarks Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Almost always buy it new, personally. All my gen watches have been purchased BNIB. I am paranoid about buying used watches. Who knows if they have been tampered with, parts swapped, watch dropped, etc. There are a few reputable sellers on P.com who sells BNIB and I have purchased a few BNIB watches with prices well under MRSP. All transactions I have made, I am more than happy about. PM me and I'll recommend one particular seller I have bought from who has good selections of watches and prices if u catch him in the right time. This particular seller (a HUGE watch collector - collects & sells Richard Mille, APs, Panerais, etc) seemed to have have good deals for BNIB at times (if u catch him in the right moment), his prices sometimes dips well below the MRSP by almost $1k -$1.5K for some particular Panerai watches. He is a highly regarded trusted seller whom I have 2 transactions with and has even met up with his brother for a face-to-face transaction. A truely standup guy and a crazy collector. The only time I would buy a used genuine watch is when I intend to mod the gen, otherwise, I would always go that little extra mile to buy it brand new. Oh another time would be if the watch is no longer in production or hard-to-find models and the only way to attain the watch is to get it used. I think the key is to take time and research and never ever (at least try not to) rush a purchase. If u were to buy from the internet - Always buy from a trusted seller - Research, research and research (reference, reference & reference). Or else simply head over to local AD and drop the cash - which (no brainer) is the most secure way of getting a genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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